Turning your hobby into a business

[GEP]

12 minutes ago, Joseph Fireborn said:

don't understand why anyone would make that comment, but I often find myself not understanding people. If I somehow made that comment in my post, I apologize I had no intentions of that meaning. If anything I admire people who can succeed as a full-time potter with no other support, it is impressive

Joseph, I apologize for being unclear! I did not mean that you made this comment. You did not. I was referring to this entire discussion, and to many other discussions I’ve seen, here and in other places, where the differentiations are not discussed. 

[Joseph Fireborn]

1 minute ago, GEP said:

Joseph, I apologize for being unclear! I did not mean that you made this comment. You did not. I was referring to this entire discussion, and to many other discussions I’ve seen, here and in other places, where the differentiations are not discussed. 

Thank you for following up!

[Callie Beller Diesel]

7 minutes ago, GEP said:

I’ve seen, here and in other places, where the differentiations are not discussed. 

So much this!

While I do advocate for social media as a valid business tool, it’s not one that I think everyone needs to pick up. If ANYTHING doesn’t suit one’s constitution or life or business model, it makes no sense to use it. It’s like a Giffen grip: some people love it, some people hate it. Both are valid. Social is one way of building an audience, but not the only way. Circumstances and nuance need to be considered.

[neilestrick]

On the topic of your body being able to do the work: There's a very real possibility that one's business model will have to change (or even stop) well before you reach retirement age. I am at a point in my career where that is happening to me. I'm 51 years old, and after 30 years of making pots my hands hurt way too much to continue wheel throwing. It's nothing that surgery can fix for the most part, and I want to be able to use my hands when I retire some day, so I am now a hand builder! If I was making my living 100% from making pots, that would be a severe change in my production output and my business may or may not be able to survive that kind of change. Luckily for me, selling pots is only one of 4 income streams I have. That said, kiln repair work is also really hard on my body and I'm starting to see signs that I will probably have to stop doing it well before retirement age. None of this was an issue when I was 40, I'm just worn out. Once it starts happening it seems to build quickly, so you have to plan ahead for those changes. There's a reason you don't see many 64 year old guys framing houses or installing roof shingles.

[Mark C.]

I turn 70 on the 15 of March. Pottery full time since 1976 for the most part  Yes a few jobs as an electrican and a plumber and a commercial diver but the most part its clay bringing in the income..I consider myself a full timer and am  was  simi retiring slowly (started at 64) until this coming year we are in. I married quite late  in life (mid 90s) and my wifes state insurance has helped a lot but that said its my income that has paid most of my way thu my life so far.

Pottery has been brutal on my hands /wrists. Yes back issue as well but knock on wood good last 20 years. Its kept me strong and worn me down at same time. (On the topic of your body being able to do the work) one needs to think about this a bit .

I read these discussions with very mixed feelings.  And coming from a place of knowing  whats needed and what the cost will be on oneself i have a different take on things. Mea points this out well. I agree with most of Josephs statements  although I never considered scaling up or even being in business-it was all an organic process not thought about much in the old days.It jusat happened from the love of making and firing pots.

I did have a slip cast friend who scalled up and I saw maganaging people was not for me in the 80s

Most I have learned are just not cut out for the production side of things . 

The next is sticking it and out figuring it out over time. This takes time and 10-20 years is not  what most are willing to give.

The body not holding up to the work is another big one. 

It's the individual that holds the key -do thay have what it takes to cut thru all the above and become successful ?

A few points for me are It has never been a hobby-as a collage kid coming out of school and working in clay I did not have the money or time to play with clay as a hobby so I have see the hobby part as a detriment  to those doing that thinking wow lets make some $$$ at this-this will not be full time in so many ways

The success is a judgment call on so many levels-as noted  a few extra $$ is all that needed or expected is fine for some and falls short for others.

What I made in the 70s-80s is not ok in the 90s-2000s-sure it paid the bills and house payments but I just got by for a long while. Now a show thats 6k for me is a disaster and not worth doing-back then it was on fire so thats a moving target as well. All this knowledge takes so much time to learn meanwhile your body is slowing getting ground down. That's a fact

If one wants to sell a few pots on instagam and feel like its full time I say go for it. But I know whats thats about -more the hobby deal as an upgrade

If one want to sell 6 figures a year I say go for it as I really know whats that about as well

My suggestion and its really been thru dumb luck is find a few good people to help you if you want to go big and long. In my case they found me  about 30 years ago and are just part timers and help me out in so may ways. They also have been with me that whole time (one is thrower 6 hours a week)  The other is a do it all studio assstant doing whats needed when needed and she has been terrific . Its been possiable to stretch this into a 50 year career body wise. You need to pay them well to keep them by the way and share in the sucesss as it comes-more pay

Its worked for me so know its possiable

Whats my biggest unknown in my future is wrist fusion ,so Neil pay attention now and give it real thought.

 

 

 

Edited March 11, 2023 by Mark C.

[Joseph Fireborn]

48 minutes ago, Mark C. said:

I turn 70 on the 15 of March.

Happy Birthday!

[GEP]

On the subject of one’s body wearing down … I’m 52 now, approaching the 30 year mark of my pottery-making life. When I am going through a busy stretch with work, I have a nightly appointment with my heating pad, to soothe my aching elbows, wrists, and back. The past few years, I have been taking a 2 month break after the holidays. Pandemic forced me to do it, now I choose to do it. The recovery time makes a big difference. Throughout the year, I prioritize my physical health, knowing that my job depends on it. Running, yoga, sleep, healthy diet. Last year I started taking a collagen supplement, and that seems to help with my chronically sore elbow. Maybe the most important advice I have for a younger potter is to make sure your throwing clay is nice and soft. 

I hope to retire with my hands being functional enough to do things like cooking and gardening. 

[Denice]

I am also 70 years old,  I purchased a new Paragon Caldera test kiln a few months ago and I installed a new LL kiln with the same Genesis 2.0  controller on it this week in my kiln room.  I purchase the test kiln because the one I was using needed work and it was old and didn't have a controller or thick walls.  My old Skutt started giving me trouble at the same time.  I thought long and hard on whether it was a sensible thing to do at my age it invest in new equipment at my age.  Maybe I should give it up,  I just couldn't imagine myself doing anything else,   sure I could find something to piddle with  but I would lose interest quickly.   My interest lately is testing the same glaze on  eight or so different clay's.   I can see myself delving even deeper into glaze to put on small pots.  Someday I will have to quit working in my studio,  I will at least know that old age didn't stop me from doing what I love.   Denice

[Mark C.]

The two month mandatory after xmas break is a must -I have had one for over a decade or two. Of course my business has always had a large xmas sales exposure especially in Dec with a huge fair in Az the 1st weekend for 24 years then my own sales booth two weeks before the 25th and all my outlets selling strong that month. I used to have a big number $$$ in my head to make every December and I always made it and usually surpased it. By the 25th I'm toast. This coming year will much easier no xmas sales booth and I stopped that huge out of state show 5 years ago. My local outlets will be all for me now this xmas. Looking forward to doing much less and Not firing in December. This year is my biggest transition year -I'm on a few months then off a few months-trying to find the sweet spot to cover what bases I need and not work much extra.I have a large twice a year order to cover. Not that long ago I did NO wholesale now its nearly 1/3 to1/2 of the pie. Same with the other older potters I know as well.More wholesale less shows as we age.

Edited March 13, 2023 by Mark C.

[Mark C.]

Denice if it helps I'm bringing in a new to me 18cubic foot Giel downdraft this spring/summer. I need to pour a slab and up my 2 inch gas service . The kiln is about 15 miles away -I found it about 10 years ago used in LA for a potter friend (he was a hobbist but at a high level) I already  bought him a kiln (electric I found in AZ from some of my customers) and ran some gas pipes for him. He was sitting on the fence about this Geil and I at that time said you buy it or me take your pick. I really wanted a 24 cubic footer as that a better fit as my car kiuln is 35 my updraft is 12 and 18 is a bit odd and beside Geil on some modela like this oine uses shelve sizes that are non standard (I love and use advancer 12x24 and this Geil is set up for 14x28 and us oldies say to big to heavy.Anyway he tased few years back afterv two fires (it really was to big for him as his one of a kind works just takes to long to fill that kiln. The thing is he buildt a kiln room around it and made it so it could come apart (the room is sheet rocked and insulated ) so I nee to take that apart and move it onto a trailer after supported the ach (its all soft brick) with a fork lift most likley  as the road is private and really small and out in the boonies. Then trailer it to my place on a steep hill and unload it and get it thru my 8 foot gate under my 7 foot (low spot) metal roofed area. That is filled up and shoe horn it onto a slab. . It maybe be possible  to use a small mini fork lift for that as long as it has 5 foot fork extensions which are harder to find. The space it is going in is very tight with uprights holding the large 24 x 30 roof up. Once its in. I need to cut a hole in metal roof to vent it and change orfices back to Natural gas. 

I cleaned out this potters shop for his widow a few yaers ago and this is the last large item.I was on the fence as Denice says (I thought long and hard on whether it was a sensible thing to do at my age it invest in new equipment at my age) and I came to the conclusion that another 6-7 k on a kiln that saves gas(big deal these days out here in high gas priceland  and is smaller and has all the furniture included  and has a few auto features like set and hold so I can sleep as it gaining temp and stop and hold at whatever I set (the older Geil DD system-simple)

I gave it a green light recently after lots of thought

Edited November 14, 2023 by Mark C.

[DirtRoads]

On 3/10/2023 at 11:39 AM, Mark C. said:

 

Most I have learned are just not cut out for the production side of things .

^ this yes and maybe  ....  "are just not cut out for the "actual WORK" side of things ."   A pottery business is a lot of WORK.   And there is "opportunity costs".     I don't really let myself think too much about this ... i.e.  "could I have made more money doing something else".    This is one of the reasons I went so heavy into importing jewelry to add to my pottery line.   It has definitely evened out my time/profit relationship.   Strangely, I really like doing the pottery now.   A couple of years back, I mostly tolerated it because it was always somewhat profitable.   You have a differentiated product, with high margins, that you have absolute control over.    I'm finding myself enjoying the making now (well no production employees ... wish I had done this years ago).

Edited March 12, 2023 by DirtRoads

[Morgan]

You have to also add in the type of potter you are when talking success I think. You could be a high level production potter cranking out stuff with one glaze, or a more gallery type selling vases for 50k, etc. I have been doing pottery for over two decades but the type of pottery I like to do, sell, etc there is just no way I could ever make it a production level business. I do make a living and am happy though. What I mean is, for example, I would have to change the way I glaze things big time, I would have to change so many aspects of my pots to be more efficient and so on to sell/make that many to ever make 6 figures….BUT those things I do that prevent me are what sells my pots. My point is if I reeeeaaally wanted to I could flip my entire business on its head and probably make a hell of a lot more money but it would change everything I enjoy out it and frankly become something I don’t even like making or doing. 
 

 

[neilestrick]

On 3/11/2023 at 8:43 PM, DirtRoads said:

"are just not cut out for the "actual WORK" side of things ."   A pottery business is a lot of WORK. 

I don't think that 'work' in itself is the issue. Rather, it's the type of work. Some people can work for hours and hours with spreadsheets on a computer and have no problem with it. Some folks install shingles all day or frame houses. Some teach kids. I can work hard all day in the studio but I would hate other jobs. It's a matter of finding the work that you enjoy, and if you're not totally into clay then it's not going to be work you want to do all day.

[Denice]

I can lose a day working in my studio,  even recycling clay and cleaning  time fly's by.   My husbands loves to work on cars but hates lawn work.  We hire a man to help us with outdoor work,  last summer the front end on his car broke.  My husband  agrees to fix his car instead of paying him for his work that day.    The hired man comments later  that he has never seen someone so happy to be working on a car.  My husband spent his life writing technical books on amusement rides, plane, trains and construction  equipment.   But is happiest when he is working with his hands.  Denice

[Stephen]

Well the one thing that stands out to me is that from hobby to pro is very different than say a college student who choose studio pottery as their profession. As a hobby, after a day in front of a computer, throwing a dozen mugs might be a blast and having to fill a kiln 3x a week and sell  4-500 pots a month not so much. As an alternative to building a business 100% pottery one can consider pottery being a component

[JoshuaElia]

It can be tough turning a hobby into a business, so it's fantastic that you're taking the initiative to create content to answer common questions. It's essential to tailor advice and solutions to the specific needs of each individual. Have you considered learning about how financial modeling for your business? I hope that helps you. Keep up the great work, and I look forward to seeing your content!

Edited May 24, 2023 by JoshuaElia

[Badgerwitaspoon]

I think that the most difficult part in the transaction from hobby to business is the part with understanding and managing the business.
In general, those who switch from hobby to business, are good at their hobby, but not good at business, and this can be a serious obstacle to creating a profitable business

When my wife and I decided to turn our love of baking into a business, it was a whole new world for us. We knew how to bake, but understanding inventory, taxes, and marketing was like learning a whole new language.

It's true what they say, though: starting a business is a rollercoaster. We had days when we questioned if we made the right choice, but there were also days filled with victories, like getting our first repeat customer or seeing our treats featured in a local magazine. It's a journey, and I believe the key is to not be too hard on yourself. It's okay not to know everything from the get-go.

Reflecting on our experiences, my wife decided to write a comprehensive article detailing our journey and all the steps we took to open our bakery. It's a formal piece, packed with tips and practical advice that could be beneficial for anyone looking to make a similar transition. I think it might resonate with you, given your current situation. So, feel free to visit this link to check it out. Keep pushing forward, and remember, every challenge is an opportunity for growth. Good luck!

Edited May 27, 2023 by Badgerwitaspoon

[oldlady]

just finished reading this from the OPs opening sentence. 

at 83,  i may be the oldest potter in this group, old  means i do not work in my studio every day.  when i do, i enjoy every part of what i do.

over the last year i have been knocked down with a strange physical problem that has not yet been solved.  losing over 60 pounds without trying is a very scary thing.   i have seen all kinds of specialists and had some treatments of a minor nature but nobody has said "you have XX and need to do ZZ to cure it".   i have to guess that if i had the big C i would know by now, so i am looking at a total change, maybe turning the studio into a B and B like my neighbors did.

when do we give up?  this is the far other end of the continuum.

 

Edited October 5, 2023 by oldlady
add

[Pres]

I taught for 36 years, much of it Ceramics day to day. Not really work of the physical type that potters do, but still a lot of clay, wedging, throwing, demonstrations, lectures, and coaching beginners and intermediates. Retirement brought on some regular throwing, lots of bowling, and other activities that taxed me. Now in my mid 70s I find that it is easier to get tired, delay going out to the shop, or to not take that kayak out as often. Luckily, even though I have quite a bit of arthritis in my hands and other areas, I still enjoy working with the clay and creating one of a kind pieces. . . for my self, or my vision. So what if I make less, there is no need there to sell, but still the need to make . . . hope to continue on til gone.

 

best,

Pres

[Pyewackette]

On 3/9/2023 at 5:07 PM, Joseph Fireborn said:

Success is really up to the individual, if you are happy making 10K a year in profits and are securing your lively hood through another manner, congrats you are happy and successful!

If I ever get to the place where I'm clearing 10k a year, I'd be delirious.  I might eventually pay off my kiln and other equipment then. 

Seriously.  I'm afraid I'll end up buried in pots.  It'll be like trying to give zucchini away.

[Callie Beller Diesel]

Sellling 10k worth of pots is very doable. And if you’re running a business, purchasing equipment is an expense. 

[Pyewackette]

@Callie Beller Diesel Well its certainly been an expense so far!

[Denice]

I learned my lessons on  making pottery as a business instead of a artistic hobby.   I designed a set of dishes for a friends severely disabled daughter.   Before I know it I had calls from other families to buy a set.   I already owned a wallpaper store so I didn't have a lot of spare time and they would get it before the next holiday.   I ended up with demanding customers and suddenly my artistic hobby became work.    I got the same feeling when I taught a summer throwing class,  I wanted to be working in my own studio not teaching.    Denice

[shawnhar]

On 11/14/2023 at 9:41 PM, Denice said:

I learned my lessons on  making pottery as a business instead of a artistic hobby.   I designed a set of dishes for a friends severely disabled daughter.   Before I know it I had calls from other families to buy a set.   I already owned a wallpaper store so I didn't have a lot of spare time and they would get it before the next holiday.   I ended up with demanding customers and suddenly my artistic hobby became work.    I got the same feeling when I taught a summer throwing class,  I wanted to be working in my own studio not teaching.    Denice

Demanding customers require high prices. Someone wants custom anything from me, I tell them they won't like the price and are not allowed to complain.

-You get what you get and deal with it, and pay up front, and wait 6-8 weeks, filters out the people I don't want to make stuff for anyway.

 - Private lessons are great for me, but if you won't trim your nails I will ghost you, will not deal with that.

[Denice]

My first day of throwing the professor came in and explained what the class would cover.  At the end of his speech he said that if anyone had taken the class to make a set of dishes they might as well leave now.  He told us that it would take years of throwing before we could make a set.   After he finished three women stood up and left the room.  his way of pulling out the weeds.  I made a set of dishes about 15 years ago just to see if I could.   We are still using them but the glaze is getting a little hazy.    Denice