Argh!! Giffin grip gripe, anyone else have issues?

[CactusPots]

1 hour ago, neilestrick said:

So learning how to trim without a Giffin Grip is no longer a useful skill? I should require every student to buy a Giffin Grip if they want to learn how to trim in my classes?

See, that's the difference between a shared environment and a personal one.  As a teacher/instructor, you're in the position to require procedures that might or might not not have a direct translation to a personal environment.  When I began setting up my studio 25+ years ago, the GG was probably the first purchase after the wheel.   It's just a skill that I don't care to invest the time in.  I didn't learn basics in a structured environment with a director that required anything.  They didn't have GG either.  He probably demoed it.

I have tools that have earned their keep and ones that haven't.  GG is definitely a keeper.

[CactusPots]

2 hours ago, cstovin said:

rubber stop/disk of sorts doesn’t help; I slow the wheel down slowly, I knew about the wheels tendency to stop too fast; I can center, tighten the GG and have it immediately off center, so frustrated; it doesn’t matter if it’s a cup or a 5 pound pot; same resulted

Sounds like the 2 pieces of the grip don't have the necessary friction.  If I hold the top of the grip and power the wheel, it takes some torque to tighten the arms on the pot.  It doesn't just slide.  I have never lubricated the 2 main pieces, I don't think anything more than cleaning is required. 

There is an O ring and spacer on the bottom holding the 2 pieces together.  Are they there on yours?

[Callie Beller Diesel]

I borrowed a friend’s Giffen grip once and had a lot of problems using it because the point I needed the holder pads to be on to centre the pot was also the point I needed to trim on. I gave it back. I didn’t like it even a little bit, although I liked the idea of what it was supposed to do. At the time, I tended to pull too quickly in the beginning stages and the rims didn’t have the same centre point as the shoulder or the foot. It took me about an afternoon or two after that to get the hang of tap centring, and I usually don’t come by manual skills like that easily. 
 

That said, if I get to the point where I do Mark or Mea’s quantity of production, I’ll buy one in a heartbeat and re-learn a skill. I happened to meet half of the couple that runs the Giffen company in the hotel lobby last year at NCECA. She was an absolute heartwarming delight to talk to, and based on that I wouldn’t hesitate to reach out to them and ask questions. They stand by their stuff. 

[oldlady]

cstovin,    i had a similar problem with the replacement GIFF   I   N    GRIP years ago.  i found that i had not set it up properly, one of the rows of tiny, teeny, tiny grooves was off by one groove.

there is another problem i have seen with it, if you put it down on top of a bat pin, it will ride around like a tilt-a-whirl at an amusement park.    the cure for that is marking the wheel head with a sharpie once you have it set perfectly.   run a line down both sides of the bottom grips and use that line next time and forever after.

another tip is to put concentric circles on the grip to make the initial placement easier.   

i rarely used the taller posts, but noticed when i did that they must be seated FIRMLY in the slot before use.

[oldlady]

cstovin,    i had a similar problem with the replacement GIFF   I   N    GRIP years ago.  i found that i had not set it up properly, one of the rows of tiny, teeny, tiny grooves was off by one groove.

there is another problem i have seen with it, if you put it down on top of a bat pin, it will ride around like a tilt-a-whirl at an amusement park.    the cure for that is marking the wheel head with a sharpie once you have it set perfectly.   run a line down both sides of the bottom grips and use that line next time and forever after.

another tip is to put concentric circles on the grip to make the initial placement easier.   

i rarely used the taller posts, but noticed when i did that they must be seated FIRMLY in the slot before use.

[CactusPots]

On 5/28/2020 at 6:13 PM, Callie Beller Diesel said:

. At the time, I tended to pull too quickly in the beginning stages and the rims didn’t have the same centre point as the shoulder or the foot.
 

 

I'm a sloppy enough thrower that occasionally I'll have a pot in a trimming session like this.  I use a couple of little pieces of the rubber grippy shelf liner stuff to get the foot part centered and never mind the rim.

I know it works fine for everybody else (again), but griping the pot by the rim with wads of clay does not appeal to me like the riser arms on the GG.  It just stands to reason that securing the pot closer to the force applied by the trimming tool makes more sense.  Plus the fact that the rim will be much more fragile that the foot at this point.  There are 5 working heights of the arms, plus reversing the sliders to give the best position on the pot.  I just can't get over the idea that anyone would argue against the GG.  Unless you just make so few pots that it doesn't matter or you like the tradition of doing things the old way.  I guess that's why the kick wheel doesn't go away. 

[ronfire]

The only thing I still have to figure out is how to keep more of the trimming off the floor. Built a shield for the wheel that helps but still does not get it all.  I see in the above picture the use of a towel draped into the wheel pan, will try that as well.

 

[Min]

1 hour ago, CactusPots said:

I just can't get over the idea that anyone would argue against the GG.

I re-read this thread and couldn't find anyone arguing against the Giffin Grip. Advocating learning to trim without one and then making their own decision whether to use one or not in their own studio seems sensible and was brought up a couple times.

BTW there are alternatives to clay wads, wet wheel head or the Giffin Grip for securing the pot down. I use a neoprene disc on the wheelhead, it gets a swipe with a damp sponge and then I put the pot down. It works so well that often I have to "burp" the neoprene to get the pot to release. It costs less than $10- and I've been using the same one for about 30 years. For pots with uneven rims (like my avatar) I use a chum or chuck. What works for me might not work for you but I'm sure you could say that about many of the practices we use while making pots. I'm glad you find your Giffin Grip useful, I've never felt the need for one even though I make a lot of pots.

[Callie Beller Diesel]

1 hour ago, CactusPots said:

Unless you just make so few pots that it doesn't matter or you like the tradition of doing things the old way.  I guess that's why the kick wheel doesn't go away. 

I make my living throwing pots, so it’s not like I’m just at the wheel for relaxation. I’m not making 100K of pots a year, but I manage a respectable wage.  A Giffen grip simply isn’t ideal in all situations. I’m not for a second saying people shouldn’t use one, nor am I some kind of Luddite. Currently I have a skill set and a demand level that renders one unnecessary. 
Lots of people pull handles rather than extruding them too, even though the extruder is a lot faster. Some of it’s preference, and what’s wrong with that?

[CactusPots]

1 hour ago, ronfire said:

The only thing I still have to figure out is how to keep more of the trimming off the floor. Built a shield for the wheel that helps but still does not get it all.  I see in the above picture the use of a towel draped into the wheel pan, will try that as well.

 

I have a big table on the wheel.  It's actually a counter top with a back splash cut to fit right under the back pan.  That catches most of the trimmings.  As I trim, I'll stop the wheel and corral the trimmings.  It makes a big difference how wet the pot is.  Too dry and they shatter and come off in little uncontrollable pieces.  Too wet and they reattach themselves and are a pain to pull off.  Just right, and I can keep 95% off the floor.  Always escapees, though.

[CactusPots]

1 hour ago, Min said:

I re-read this thread and couldn't find anyone arguing against the Giffin Grip. Advocating learning to trim without one and then making their own decision whether to use one or not in their own studio seems sensible and was brought up a couple times.

BTW there are alternatives to clay wads, wet wheel head or the Giffin Grip for securing the pot down. I use a neoprene disc on the wheelhead, it gets a swipe with a damp sponge and then I put the pot down. It works so well that often I have to "burp" the neoprene to get the pot to release. It costs less than $10- and I've been using the same one for about 30 years. For pots with uneven rims (like my avatar) I use a chum or chuck. What works for me might not work for you but I'm sure you could say that about many of the practices we use while making pots. I'm glad you find your Giffin Grip useful, I've never felt the need for one even though I make a lot of pots.

Neoprene like wet suit material?  How would that work say on a pot 3" wide and 10" tall?  Seems like the leverage and pressure would make the pot want to move.

It's like the KeyMaker in the movie Matix says, "Always another way".

[Mark C.]

A GG is just another tool like a screwdriver-but more like a screw gun in the right hands. Learning to use one is the same deal-some folks never can use a power screw gun and stick to screwdrivers. I can use both but it was a learning curve with a screw gun .Same with a G.G.

The orginal OP just needs to learn the ins and outs of a GG

Edited May 30, 2020 by Mark C.

[Min]

34 minutes ago, CactusPots said:

Neoprene like wet suit material?  How would that work say on a pot 3" wide and 10" tall?  Seems like the leverage and pressure would make the pot want to move.

It's much denser and stiffer than wet suit material and only about 2-3 millimetres thick. For tall narrow forms I use a chuck. I don't make just one of an item at a time so setting  a chuck to center takes a couple minutes at most but then I'm good to go to trim multiple pots. Just another tool in the tool box, use whatever works for you.

 

[Pres]

I was trimming some lids today, on the GG. Came to one that needed some diameter correction to fit into the canister. As I was already using the GG, I shifted off the lid, grabbed a plastic plumbing pipe reducer, and centered it with the GG, dampened the reducer, centered the lid and trimmed the edge without the pads causing me to move when I went by them. Lid trimmed well.

 

 

best,

Pres 

[liambesaw]

2 hours ago, CactusPots said:

Neoprene like wet suit material?  How would that work say on a pot 3" wide and 10" tall?  Seems like the leverage and pressure would make the pot want to move.

It's like the KeyMaker in the movie Matix says, "Always another way".

I use a milk cap on the top and apply gentle pressure while trimming tall forms.  More than one way to skin a cat

my favorite way is to throw forms that don't need to be trimmed heh

[cstovin]

I know how to use a GG; I don’t know if it is this specific one?  Combo of the wheel (shimpco) and GG, or what.  I’ve been successful on Brent wheel with GG, and I can trim on foam; I wanted to know if others had issues, and what they did to remedy......

[Bill Kielb]

2 hours ago, cstovin said:

I know how to use a GG; I don’t know if it is this specific one?  Combo of the wheel (shimpco) and GG, or what.  I’ve been successful on Brent wheel with GG, and I can trim on foam; I wanted to know if others had issues, and what they did to remedy......

I use routinely on Shimpo whisper and their lesser as well as  Brent with no issues. Maybe check and fit up the mounting legs a bit, there has got to be a reason.

Edited May 30, 2020 by Bill Kielb

[Mark C.]

Yes on this

(Maybe check and fit up the mounting legs a bit, there has got to be a reason.)

[Babs]

On 5/31/2020 at 2:17 AM, Callie Beller Diesel said:

I make my living throwing pots, so it’s not like I’m just at the wheel for relaxation. I’m not making 100K of pots a year, but I manage a respectable wage.  A Giffen grip simply isn’t ideal in all situations. I’m not for a second saying people shouldn’t use one, nor am I some kind of Luddite. Currently I have a skill set and a demand level that renders one unnecessary. 
Lots of people pull handles rather than extruding them too, even though the extruder is a lot faster. Some of it’s preference, and what’s wrong with that?

With a variety of arms with which to centre your pots. On the wheelhead, and at any point on way up the pot plus chucks, you'd be surprised at time saved.

Friend throwingg and trimming for a fulltime buysy potter scoffed at using a GG until she was out trimmed by yong upstart:-))) she changed and outtrimmed the young squirt..... but can still outtap centre anyone around!

I, ve trimmed darned fine wonky pots with gg, just saying.

Still tap for just a few pots..too lazy to get up and attach the grip

[Pres]

GG is just one more skill/tool for use in the tool rack. Doesn't hang on a hook to well though!

 

best,

Pres

[Babs]

19 minutes ago, Pres said:

GG is just one more skill/tool for use in the tool rack. Doesn't hang on a hook to well though!

 

best,

Pres

Yes so maybe someone out there has a soln. for that!

[Bill Kielb]

1 hour ago, Babs said:

Yes so maybe someone out there has a soln. for that!

It was enough to just make an index  to hold all the little arms!

[Stephen]

whoa I didn't realize how attached so many were to their GG. I hope the company doesn't see this thread because those suckers already cost a couple hundred bucks.

 

[Min]

36 minutes ago, Stephen said:

I hope the company doesn't see this thread because those suckers already cost a couple hundred bucks.

 

309 here, 346 with taxes.

[liambesaw]

8 minutes ago, Min said:

309 here, 346 with taxes.

Sounds like they could easily get 500 lol