Evelyne Schoenmann Posted March 29, 2016 Report Share Posted March 29, 2016 Did you ever, out of an emergency (pottery market date is just round the corner) or of other reasons, declare a second for a first? Have you been in situations where you knew that the object you were holding after opening the kiln was really not good enough to sell, but you decided to sell it anyway and declare the flaw it has as a special feature? I confess: I did! What about you? Evelyne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldlady Posted March 29, 2016 Report Share Posted March 29, 2016 have put a huge platter on display with a note that it was not for sale. i just needed something to fill that space and be large enough to attract attention. the edge of the platter had a spot where the band of lace i used did not stretch quite far enough so there was a tiny opening that was concealed by the stand. i do sometimes have things with a blob of something that fell onto the glaze during firing. i put a price tag with an arrow pointing it out and the words "tiny flaw". if the price is lower than its companions, it will sell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhPotter Posted March 29, 2016 Report Share Posted March 29, 2016 This past Christmas a customer wanted a large serving bowl to hold fruit. When the bowl came out of the glaze firing it had a 1.5 inch long crack on the rim. The customer said they would wait till I could produce another. Another customer wanted the bowl because they said it was unique and there would never be another like it (I hope). I traded the customer the bowl for a barn door that is now my bathroom door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JBaymore Posted March 29, 2016 Report Share Posted March 29, 2016 While "never" is a pretty absolute term, and memory is not a sure thing... I think I can say I never did this deliberately. HOWEVER...... and that is a BIG "however"......... if I look backward from my current vantage point of experience, many things that I sold in the past (particularly the long distant past) I now would have considered "seconds" or "subs" (below aesthetic standards). best , ......................john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evelyne Schoenmann Posted March 29, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2016 oldlady: that is surely the right thing to do. Put a tag on it that says that the piece isn't perfect. dhPotter: hilarious! I love such trades! You will remember that interlude forever. John: I expected nothing less from you. That's the way we all should do with flawed pieces. My selling a second for a first, by the way, was also in the long distant past .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcia Selsor Posted March 29, 2016 Report Share Posted March 29, 2016 I agree with John. Never sell seconds as first because they will come back and bite you. Use a hammer. Marcia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pres Posted March 29, 2016 Report Share Posted March 29, 2016 Another thought about all of this is the piece that I sold 20 years ago, I would not sell today. Back then I had different glazes, some of which were not up to my present standards, also I used a long range clay body for the first few years-that is a never again. So, back then I sold what was really good for me at the time, and still looks great. However, there were problems. Today, I don't sell unless it is a first, as I did then, but if I am still potting in 20, can I say that I would still sell today's work then? back then I had no need for a hammer, just dropped it on the drive way, often before glaze firing, many times after glaze firing. best, Pres Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denice Posted March 29, 2016 Report Share Posted March 29, 2016 I have had a couple of people ask me if I have anything that has a imperfection in the glaze. They thought it made it look more handmade. Denice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark C. Posted March 29, 2016 Report Share Posted March 29, 2016 My 1st decade of ceramics (70's) I sold some not so great pots -later they did come back to haunt me. These where just poorly made pots. I never sell seconds as firsts. I think we all progress and looking back at pots from say 30 years ago I'm seeing they are not as good as current works-but thats the cycle really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glazenerd Posted March 29, 2016 Report Share Posted March 29, 2016 Not sure how to respond to this: not sure what would classify crystalline glazed tile as a second? Obviously warped, cracked, or some material defects: which always make their was to the dumpster. I prefer the nice round, floret looking crystals and have worked hard to achieve that level consistently. However, almost half of the people I have dealt with want spike, needle clusters and crystal formations I would consider seconds. I have had customers actually ask for these types of formations. This weeks question however I suspect is aimed more towards functional ware, which is not something I work with. What few bowls and plates I make are primarily to check glaze run. Nerd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bciskepottery Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 At the first show I did, I had a rather ugly bowl not for sale that I used to hold candy in for shoppers. A person came along, unceremoniously dumped the candy on the table, and informed me that was the item she wanted to buy and how much was it. Just as I was starting to say it was not to standards and not for sale, but my spouse jumped in and gave her a price. I sold it. Then gathered up the candy. What we may consider a second may be a first to a buyer. I also do not use seconds for candy dishes anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babs Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 Recent market I collected from my shed old pots which I had on a shelf for reference to glazes shapes etc, some many years old It was at a not for profit stall for a local cause, I put a label on the box of those..2nd hand pots. Customers wanted "2 More' etc. The stall holders kept asking me to raise the prices, but as they had served their purpose to me AND I didn't want to take anything home, I was happy to see them bring pleasure at a bargain find. "why did you stop making them?' questions My shed has a clear shelf . I did shudder a few times and wish I hadn't signed them but that is just ego I guess, and with some I thought , hmm maybe try that again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GiselleNo5 Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 I have had a couple of people ask me if I have anything that has a imperfection in the glaze. They thought it made it look more handmade. Denice Send them to me, baby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GiselleNo5 Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 With my clay stamps that I've sold for 3 1/2 years, I definitely do look back at the oldest sold pages and shudder to think both that I sold them and someone bought them! I was new to clay then. With pottery, I'm still just past the first year, so perhaps 50% of my work right now I consider seconds. I think the first two kiln loads of my wheel thrown work were all given away or thrown away. Also many things I was extremely excited to pull out of the kiln last year have now been pulled from my Etsy shop and I am either keeping them myself or finding a home for them because my work now is turning out so much nicer and more consistent. It's all such a huge learning experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatthewV Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 If you make 100 pieces, 99 of them won't be your best work. As for seconds, I think a potter has the obligation to hold to a high standard. But when the glazing is ugly (to you) is there actually a problem? Selling mugs or bowls with blisters, voids, cracks, chunks in the glazes is not fine -- even if the defects are known. But what about something that can only be seen as a flower vase or sculpture? The function of the form is not bothered by the defect and may even be enhanced. I have a pile of glazed-but-ugly fully functional work that I may be willing to sell. It is ugly because I had an expectation in my mind that wasn't reached -- an expectation a customer does not have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldlady Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 true, matthew, a friend has a tray i made many years ago. to me, the color was terrible. i have seen that tray since the day i had a different expectation and it is really beautiful. it is simply brown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRankin Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 I donate my seconds to the community college ceramics club where I work in the open studio. They are sold at two holiday and spring ceramics sales to raise money for charity and the club. The students and others may buy them priced at $5-10. My name is on the bottom so I'm picky about which seconds get donated but they are sold as firsts. So I guess I'm indirectly guilty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyK Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 Getting away from clay for a moment...my wife makes a variety of jams and jellies for sale and one year she had a problem with her apricot jam setting up fully. It was a little runny. One of her regular customers wanted the usual jam but when my told her it was on the runny side, her customer was interested in trying a jar for ice cream topping. Since then, she only wants the runny apricot and buys all that Carol can make. In this case a minor problem turned into a bonanza! JohnnyK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GiselleNo5 Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 If you make 100 pieces, 99 of them won't be your best work. As for seconds, I think a potter has the obligation to hold to a high standard. But when the glazing is ugly (to you) is there actually a problem? Selling mugs or bowls with blisters, voids, cracks, chunks in the glazes is not fine -- even if the defects are known. But what about something that can only be seen as a flower vase or sculpture? The function of the form is not bothered by the defect and may even be enhanced. I have a pile of glazed-but-ugly fully functional work that I may be willing to sell. It is ugly because I had an expectation in my mind that wasn't reached -- an expectation a customer does not have. I agree. My very first set of nesting bowls came out looking very nice in shape, fitting together well, but the glaze was horrible ... to me. I used Amaco Smoky Merlot on the outside for a deep wine burgundy and I used their Oatmeal on the inside for a creamy buttery color. Well, I didn't know that Oatmeal needs up to five coats and it turned out to be a color which looked to me like used straw from a horse's stall. Nobody else knew that I thought it was going to be a lovely vanilla ice cream color and it was one of my first things I sold at my studio tour last year. The customer came up and asked me if the price of $40 for both was correct; I said yes and she said it was too cheap. LOL She has emailed me since then and told me that she uses these bowls every day. I hope she comes next year too because I have lots more funky glaze results from a year of more experimenting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnolia Mud Researdh Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 A while back I made a set of 6 square cups, glazed them in what I thought was a orange matt glaze. They came out of the kiln GREEN. I hate green!!!!, therefore these were even less than seconds! (I later found out that the glaze bucket lids had been switched and what I used was the green glaze. Pilot error.) I was headed to the trash bin when a colleague saw them and said WOW, and asked for one. Two more colleagues came over and wanted a cup. They pointed out all the positive characteristics of the cups to which I agreed, but I still did not like green. They did and they got the cups. Lesson learned. Examine the pots for mechanical, structural, and other physical flaws against rigorous standards and don't waver. Aesthetic flaws, decorative flaws, etc. to you the maker may be positive attributes to the purchaser. LT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callie Beller Diesel Posted March 31, 2016 Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 I have some pieces from about 2-3 years ago from when I got back into clay after a 2 year hiatus. I did not consider them seconds at the time, but I do now because I've made 100 more since then. I'm glad they didn't sell, and they're going to meet the hammer when I do the next cleanup. I don't sell things with cracks or chips or misfired glaze ever. I'm not attached to my work, because the next one you make is always better. That begs another question: what do you do with old stock, if it's not a second and it hasn't sold? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marko Posted March 31, 2016 Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 Heck I just learned the difference. But I would just reduce the price and let the viewer know why. If I ever go to Market again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bciskepottery Posted March 31, 2016 Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 That begs another question: what do you do with old stock, if it's not a second and it hasn't sold? There is a home for every pot . . . sometimes it just takes longer for the owner to find it. Another reason not to date your work . . . nothing like the bottom of a bowl to tell someone its been sitting of the shelf for x years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark C. Posted March 31, 2016 Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 pots do not go bad like say bread-they have value even if time has gone by-really what does time have to do with a well made mug-its still a well made mug 10 years later. Its just your perception thats its old work not anyone else's . This lesson is one I learned long ago. Now say when gallery gives you pots back a decade later and they are completely different than current works that still have value but may not fit in the display as well but others will find them and love them. That I know to be true. Old stock is just like new stock its needs to be sold. nobody usually knows but you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babs Posted March 31, 2016 Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 I took mine as in my post above, but called them second hand as I had "used" them as references at various times when relevant to my work. Could reduce the price and sell them as old stock... Not where you are trying to sel your new lines though as people will nearly always go for the "bargain".... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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