Guest JBaymore Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 Yup........ last woman or man standing: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/c/calvincool414555.html best, ........................john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 To me, a talent is something that comes naturally, a skill is something that is acquired through practice. I have a friend who can put a pencil to a piece of paper and wonderful things just seem to fall out of the pencil. When I do the same I get a scrappy doodle. On the other hand, when she is trying to measure something and divide it into equal parts, she just looks blank, while I can do the maths really easily without thinking about it. I don't think I'm good at maths because I've practised, it's just something I can do. A talent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benzine Posted October 4, 2017 Report Share Posted October 4, 2017 On 10/1/2017 at 5:35 PM, Chris Campbell said: Our talent might just be brutish persistence. I know mine is! I do not like to be defeated, by something I know I can overcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callie Beller Diesel Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 I am at the point where I produce good enough work that people call me talented. Because I share Joseph's definition of talent being a natural initial inclination towards something, I cringe internally every d@mn time. I do smile and accept the compliment as it was intended: I was raised to be polite, and after all, most people offering these well-intended words have no idea at all how truly awful I was at clay to begin with. The pots I make now are a result of a combined love of the material, and as Min says, perseverance. Even though I was really bad at it, I loved it enough to become good at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcia Selsor Posted October 8, 2017 Report Share Posted October 8, 2017 Yes compliments are nice but generally not significant to one's own pursuit or drive or persistence. As Patti Warashina says 'we all must be crazy to work in clay" but we all must have that persistent gene. I think clay is a challenging and engaging media no matter what direction in takes you. Marcia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Fireborn Posted October 8, 2017 Report Share Posted October 8, 2017 1 minute ago, Marcia Selsor said: Yes compliments are nice but generally not significant to one's own pursuit or drive or persistence. As Patti Warashina says 'we all must be crazy to work in clay" but we all must have that persistent gene. I think clay is a challenging and engaging media no matter what direction in takes you. Marcia @Marcia Selsor /agree. Clay is so difficult. I try to explain to people when they ask me why I like it so much, can't explain it. The infinite possibilities. I mean I just spent an hour looking at the Intimate Object XIII cup and drink show and there wasn't a single cup/mug/yunomi like the one before it. Even the same artists work was different than the last. I think that is the joy I get from this. No matter how hard you try to make something look similar to the last object, it will be different. Sometimes it will just be tiny details, but never the same! So cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcia Selsor Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 well today I had a visit from a long time follower of my work who came with a former student and friend. This woman is very knowledgable about ceramics and is a collector and art consultant. We had a great time going through my own collection as well as visiting my studio. She took photos and posted them on Ceramic Collectors of Facebook. I have to say I genuinely appreciated her comments. She knows her stuff so that really made me feel good. Then the stump removal guy came and removed a tree and 5 stumps. I then moved to wheel barrels of gravel to the site of the tree removal and leveled it for a storage shed for my portable raku kilns and other equipment. So much for my 15 seconds of fame! But I did enjoy the visit. Marcia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 13 hours ago, Marcia Selsor said: So much for my 15 seconds of fame! But I did enjoy the visit. Marcia "Like" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pres Posted October 12, 2017 Report Share Posted October 12, 2017 As to why I work with clay, I really haven't found anything that appeals to me as so tactile, malleable, intuitively creative and willing to bend to my will. . . as long as I learn to work with it. best, Pres Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
preeta Posted October 23, 2017 Report Share Posted October 23, 2017 David the birth of my daughter taught me not to take those comments to heart. I did not really appreciate my mom till i became a mother myself. i did of course appreciate her but not to the level i do now. which i feel sad about. the context does matter a lot. i grew up in india where i accept the compliment with a smile because talent usually means - you put in all the hard work and look how nice it looks. whereas i put in all that work and mine comes out looking like nothing. these are people who have done art and know what it means to persevere. here i just feel sad. because i feel people are missing out on so much (lack of any art education/appreciation). or the big factor. the fear thing. perfectionism. not being able to overcome the fear of underpar work. the nostalgia of wanting to create but being afraid to because of the horribleness that comes forth - in their estimate. the comment that makes me really sad is 'i can't sing because i haven't been taught to'. anyone can sing. instead of singing to their kids i see parents play their recorded music because they are not good. who cares. just sing. why read story books at night all the time? tell stories. stories of your childhood, your ancestors. so for a lot of people i feel its also nostalgia. i really feel underneath they would like to create but feel paralyzed by their inner critique. yet for me the problem is how to learn what a 'good' pot is. i can after 10 tries make a perfect technical pot - but what makes a pot a strong pot. so in their books i might be 'talented' but in my own books i am trying to figure out what kind of a pot am i? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pres Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 Yes, Preeta, we are all on this search, and one of the reasons we are artists is that there is no end to the journey. Isn't that a good thing? (lately I have been getting fearful of using expletives) best, Pres Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yappystudent Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 Trust me I need the ego boost. I nod sagely and mutter something like "yes, yes I am." -and let whoever accused me of being talented walk away being right, thinking I'm arrogant and I got an unfair advantage in life. I need something to hold onto other than the negatives in my life and the world at this point. -but I agree with Min wholeheartedly and am just learning these life lessons about how to actually get the work itself done. When I'm alone it's the struggle of the hours put in, in my "studio" (kitchen) not sure if anyone is really going to like or buy my stuff, whether my 'true art' pieces are ridiculously edgy or my bread n' butter pieces are derivative and a waste of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeU Posted October 28, 2017 Report Share Posted October 28, 2017 Similar to Callie, I sort of cringe when someone says I am so talented, or so creative, or so smart (the latter often accompanied with thinly disguised displeasure). I spent way too much time as a kid feeling as though I was expected to politely demur when what appeared to be an innate "talent" for art was commented on. I worked hard to hone what skills I did have or if I was motivated to acquire new/different ones. Eventually talent became irrelevant as navigating life became more paramount. I also discovered that 9 times out of 10, when someone said "You are so talented." what they were really saying was not praise, but rather a way to then assert that they lacked talent (or so they thought). The one I hate the most is the automatic "I can't draw." I always want to snap back with "Well, how hard have you tried?" Or even "Sure you can, just do it--it's fun." And yet, not that long ago I heard myself exclaiming to a pianist how talented she is, and how I can't do a thing with music in any manner shape or form. Go figure. Hope I didn't make her cringe! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Posted November 19, 2017 Report Share Posted November 19, 2017 I read somewhere, maybe here, "forget your family and friends, they will never see you as an artist". I think that is mostly spot on for self taught and at the same time I think self taught folks feel more defensive. I don't think anyone in my life space really takes me that seriously but then again I really never engage anyone about it either. My partner gets a lot of accolades and she deserves it because her work is excellent and she is a very 'talented' artist. I don't mean this badly but I don't really want opinions on my work at this point. I care if customers buy the work because that's the only real validation I can trust and the rest is really noise and confusing and I don't want to be confused. I know whats good and whats crap and I'm working on it. If the work is good then people who like and buy handmade pottery will buy it. The stuff they don't buy missed the mark. I think the 10k hour rule is mostly true as a benchmark in almost anything really. Talent may give it a jump start and lack of certain qualities will put a ceiling on how refined the work or activity will get. I was a pretty good tennis player after a few k hours in HS but I was not great. Who knows what another 6-7k hours would have meant? Didn't find out with tennis (shoulder surgery) but I will hit 10k with pottery. Been without a studio for 6 months and failed at a 2 year run at full time. Although I am back to part time, I did git a huge number of hours in, particularly at the end, so its all moving forward. New studio next month and really happy about that :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Johnson Posted January 10, 2018 Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 ...to continue my thought from the other thread, my plan is to Slow Down and make stuff I want to make, focus on quality not quantity. After some good compliments, the last thing I did in December was to take about about a third of what I have left on the shelves, 'seconds' and destroyed it. Like a breath of fresh air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Johnson Posted January 10, 2018 Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 ....it's amazing how bad stuff can turn out, sometimes looking like kindergarten clay, no matter how you photograph it ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcia Selsor Posted January 12, 2018 Report Share Posted January 12, 2018 On 1/10/2018 at 2:08 PM, Rex Johnson said: ...to continue my thought from the other thread, my plan is to Slow Down and make stuff I want to make, focus on quality not quantity. After some good compliments, the last thing I did in December was to take about about a third of what I have left on the shelves, 'seconds' and destroyed it. Like a breath of fresh air. I have done that before. It is refreshing and empowering to rid yourself of things no longer relevant. I did that with some art based on the anguish of a divorce. Felt much better after the garbage truck hauled it off. 30 years ago. Marcia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrim8 Posted February 9, 2018 Report Share Posted February 9, 2018 Its just something for people to say. Strange about that though- wonder why so many people revert to that trite comment when they know damn well that anything done well has a ton of hard work & perseverance behind it. Ask any student studying for finals- is it talent that gets the A? Or the reliable surgeon that has perfected a technique over decades vs. the newby that's doing the operation for the first time- I know who I'd prefer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viking Potter Posted February 14, 2018 Report Share Posted February 14, 2018 I think that the talent relates more to the vision or imagination that the person has. The ability to see what does not exist. I know many people who do not have talent, or the ability to imagine something that they cannot already perceive. I can play an instrument, but I do not hear music in my head. My father in law can paint a house but cannot envision a painting, My mother could see and create beautiful things from nearly any kind of material. So, as stated, skill is hard work, but creative talent may require an inner vision, imagination, whatever you want to call it, and there are some people who do not have talent. Do you sometimes just pick up an object or material and think to yourself, this would be really cool if... I know people that cannot do that. They see a door knob and it is always and forever just a way to open the door. When someone tells me I am talented I take it as a compliment of my imagination and vision, and I sometimes feel a little sad when they don't seem to feel that they have the same ability to dream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceallach Posted March 10, 2018 Report Share Posted March 10, 2018 On 9/28/2017 at 10:28 AM, Marcia Selsor said: Next, i was with some relatively new comers to ceramics and they went gaga over a potter's work in Italy. It was embarrassing how much they were oo-ing and aah-ing. The potter makes a living in Italy but they were more impressed with the gold luster that they had never seen before. They didn't understand any of her explanation regarding the mature glaze surface underneath the luster and how that effects the luster surface. Their compliments were hollow for this potter and she knew it. It was unfortunate. We also went to a 3D printing lab where ceramic experiments were happening. They had never heard of 3-d printing and again went crazy. Sometimes I have to shake my head. Marcia I try to remember that everyone starts from a different place and travels at a different pace. Sometimes it's hard. Someone mentioned a rubric for grading ceramics.....When I was in school, the refrain from the teachers was Show Up, Do the Work. They did not all say it that way, but it's always struck me at how much is in that phrase. It's really really hard to Show Up, Do the Work, and completely fail. In fact, if you do it, you almost can't help being successful. I recently came back to clay (which was an experience, I spent the first 6 weeks laughing with joy), and I remember one of the guys in the class I took would come in late, take a long break and leave early. People figured out that I have a lot of knowledge and started coming to me with questions when I was closer or teacher was busy. I have no issues with helping people if I can with a few minutes here and there. But this guy started to take the wheel next to me and want me to help him with everything. I quickly stopped helping him, because he was not Showing up and Doing the Work. Later that day, he was trying to coax an A out of the teacher, and I laughed when the teacher said, you show up, watch demos, and do the work. He did not come back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMac Posted June 21, 2019 Report Share Posted June 21, 2019 My first post here...pretty new to clay work and only ever do handbuilding. I have a knack for the "cartoon" type things (love making jars)...or at least that's what I like best. At first I got the "you must have been doing this longer than you say" to now getting, "you're so talented". I appreciate it, but it makes me not want to go to the classes anymore...and I really love going. I've yet to make something I'm really proud of, but on the other side...I could sell all the pieces I've made. I make most of my stuff at home...then take it there for the finishing steps, so it's weird walking in without sitting there doing all the steps. I really kind of dread it and just say I'm more just lucky than good. Funny timing, I was just talking to my wife about this last night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeU Posted June 23, 2019 Report Share Posted June 23, 2019 On 6/21/2019 at 4:37 PM, JMac said: but it makes me not want to go to the classes anymore Welcome to the forums. Why does it make you not want to go when you "really love going"? Plus you said you appreciate it--do you really, or don't you, really? That may be important to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Kielb Posted June 23, 2019 Report Share Posted June 23, 2019 I enjoy the learning process and the personal challenge. It’s hard to celebrate true achievement without failure . Many folks are uncomfortable with failure. My informed optimism curve is much smoother without huge changes in direction. Trial and error is a valuable test method for me, not just an indication of failure. When I taught I tried to convey the enjoyment process of learning.. The ability to recognize the slight movement forward often drove people in a more positive way to learn more of many things. When athletes practice they often practice without specific purpose, just overall result. Some become great in this way because they do possess some essential talents required. When elite athletes practice though, they refine and pay specific attention to detail and master the task hopefully to maximize the level of talent they possess. Truth is, most people practice in a very general fashion toward result instead of the specifics that allows them to observe their own performance in real time and real precision. Masters of task practice specifics or sub tasks to near perfection on the way to their near perfect outcome. The “you are talented “ comment I take as a compliment but attribute it to often folks being predisposed to excusing themselves from the effort part or fully appreciating the effort without detracting from themselves. I see this with art as well as engineering as well as computer programming and just about anything in life that takes effort. After all talented people achieve things with little effort, right? Go do clay cause you enjoy it, but also celebrate your progress and how much more you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffK Posted June 25, 2019 Report Share Posted June 25, 2019 "I have no special talent. I am only passionately curious." - Albert EinsteinSo goes the road I'm on... - Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liambesaw Posted June 25, 2019 Report Share Posted June 25, 2019 I just avoid it all by not being talented Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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