QotW:What is the value of formal education in developing Ceramic skills?

[Pres]

The Hulk recently ascertained in the QotW pool. . . 

We read John Barth's short story "Lost in the Funhouse" in undergrad English (literature concentration); when/if one has seen and understood how the funhouse works, one can't very well go back to and have the first time through experience again. The concept might go somewhar near "knowledge is suffering" - suffer to get it, suffer because of it, and then suffer some more. Is it worth it? Uuuhm, o'course't!!

Whal, writing as art or not art might be easier to agree on that ceramic work ...or is it?

Any road, formal education/training (that isn't crap) is worth it, imo, howeber, you gonna suffer, an' one can't go back neither.

 

I'm assuming, rightly or wrongly that he is considering the value of formal education in the process of dealing with Ceramic?  So I will ask, in paraphrase: Did you have formal education dealing with your introduction and growth in Ceramics? If so how do you value this formal education? If not, do you miss the opportunity to get formal education?

 

Whooooo. . .As a teacher, it is logical that I support the value of Education. I do, with some reservations. . I don't know as I really have had need of Calculus, Advanced inorganic Chemistry, or Quantitative Analysis, but when it comes to Art, I found that the things I missed most from my High School years was mostly about Art, and the Arts. My introduction to Ceramics came in my third year of college, and I was blown away! Literally, to know that there was this wheel and the feel of the clay and OMG I just had to learn all about it, and it has been a journey, through undergrad and grad school. However, if to go back and do it all over again, I would have been more organized about it. I took classes Ceramics, did not enter a Ceramics program. Big difference. However, I am a good self learner, and over the years have read well, learned and taught. . . all of this leading to my understanding of Ceramics I have today. Not perfect, but works for me, so in the long run, no regrets. Suffering, no, something that brings me so much joy could never make me suffer. . .as when kicked by a bad load, or flopping pot, I get up and start over again.

 

best,

Pres

[liambesaw]

I was lucky enough to get into a special pilot school in Seattle when I was a wee lad.  It was a school that focused on the arts instead of academics and I got a very thorough exposure to every art form you could dream of.  We had a giant ceramics studio as part of the school and that's where I started my obsession.  Was able to stay in that school for 7 years, did everything from candle making to screen printing, wood carving, performance art, painting, etc etc.  

We moved away when I was in 8th grade and my family decided to go the home school route after I had a difficult time adjusting to a traditional school.  I ended up going to college through an early entry program and took ceramics courses every quarter for two years. Loved it, volunteered all the time, had a key to the studio and covered dang near every aspect.  I really wish I had continued in that direction but I dropped out of school once I ran out of free credits.  

Fast forward 20 years and I went back to school for my computer science bachelor's, graduated last year.  I will say I use the knowledge and experience I gained in elementary and community college a whole lot more than I use the science I learned for my bachelor's.  Maybe my unstructured schooling as a child was totally different than traditional art classes but I wouldn't trade that hands on learning for anything.  I am a dental laboratory technician now, making dentures, and using those ingrained skills every day.  

Just early this year I was able to afford the space, time and money to get a wheel and build a kiln.  Back at it and it was like riding a bike.  So the value of education on ceramics?  Well, I have to say it is invaluable in my life. 

As far as calculus and organic chemistry are concerned, they're there because there is some minimum standard of knowledge by which an institution must adhere in order to issue credible certifications.  There isn't a specific degree for every possible field, so while I may not ever use calculus as a web developer, someone else with my degree who designs computer components may indeed use it.  I didn't mind learning new things, even if I was never going to use them again in my life.  I guess I am just curious enough to be a sucker for learning haha.

I don't understand animus towards schooling.  We have the luxuries we have today by building on the progress of the people before us, most of who are dead.  To not take advantage of that in one specific area (such as ceramics or design) out of some kind of personal principle seems like such a strange stance. And just because you have a solid foundation on which to start, doesn't mean you have some rule book you must adhere to.  Why be ignorant by nature when you can be ignorant on purpose!

[JohnnyK]

Without formal education I wouldn't be where I am now in my skill level and vision with regard to Ceramics. I have completed 3 courses at Sierra College and aced all 3 leaving me with a 4.0 average. The stuff that I learned in these courses has brought me to a place where I am doing custom orders as well as being able to donate to my local PBS station KVIE/ juried Art Auction

[Gabby]

There are many people who worry that learning common ways of doing things, or other people's ways of doing things, will keep them from discovering uncommon ways of doing things or a unique personal style. 

These are often the same people who believe that small children have better judgment and instincts than people who have been exposed to a range of other people's ideas.

I don't think there is any evidence that exposure to a range of ideas or techniques is stifling. More likely it is stimulating.

There are others who loathe formal education because they were either bored or humiliated by the particular education they received and generalize that to all formal education.

I have also encountered people who are convinced that formally educated people are less disposed to becoming life-long learners than people without formal education. I don't think there is any validity to this assumption.

The question of how much it is reasonable to go into debt or how much time it is reasonable to devote is entirely legitimate. There will also be people who have an exceptional alternative resource available to them that is uncommon, someone who is willing to devote all the time it takes to teach them privately. Most people will not have this option. 

I have taken two ceramics classes. One was an open studio sort of thing with lots of studio access but little instruction. The other involved formal instruction but no access other than during class time to practice space or equipment.

I learned much more from the second than from the first, but these experiences made me wish I had had an opportunity to take a class from a teacher over the course of a three or four month term in which I also had access to the studio to practice. At this point I am unlikely to be able to do that.

 

 

 

Edited October 5, 2018 by Gabby

[Pres]

When I taught adult classes, 9-12, we would have about and hour of class time then studio for 2. Class time was active demonstrations on my part from how to assemble clean 90 degree slab corners to using a slab roller or an extruder. Vocabulary always included, along with the correct name for tools, processes, and materials. Loading the kiln was a demonstration and at time a group project along with critiques at unload.

 

best,

Pres

[liambesaw]

10 minutes ago, Pres said:

When I taught adult classes, 9-12, we would have about and hour of class time then studio for 2. Class time was active demonstrations on my part from how to assemble clean 90 degree slab corners to using a slab roller or an extruder. Vocabulary always included, along with the correct name for tools, processes, and materials. Loading the kiln was a demonstration and at time a group project along with critiques at unload.

 

best,

Pres

I wish my college let the students observe loading and firing the kiln, but it was fired over the weekend.  Students got to participate in kiln openings though, those are always fun

[Pres]

Most college undergrad have kiln loading done by assistants. However, in Art Ed. courses of Ceramics they often include demos and actual loading and firing of kilns for the obvious reason that the student then will be the teacher in charge of loading and firing later. I got much of my understanding of firing from undergrad early. In grad work I fired gas only a few times, but then I had a lot of electric experience. Some things like packing the kiln, kiln wash and stilts were the same, but the gas kiln is much more hands on. I do not fire an electric with any controller or setter. Fired up and down by eye and color temp with cone pack for accurate ^6 most of the time. Last firing did not go as planned! OOPs!

 

 

best,

Pres

[liambesaw]

2 hours ago, Pres said:

Most college undergrad have kiln loading done by assistants. However, in Art Ed. courses of Ceramics they often include demos and actual loading and firing of kilns for the obvious reason that the student then will be the teacher in charge of loading and firing later. I got much of my understanding of firing from undergrad early. In grad work I fired gas only a few times, but then I had a lot of electric experience. Some things like packing the kiln, kiln wash and stilts were the same, but the gas kiln is much more hands on. I do not fire an electric with any controller or setter. Fired up and down by eye and color temp with cone pack for accurate ^6 most of the time. Last firing did not go as planned! OOPs!

 

 

best,

Pres

Yeah I meant the gas kiln.  The electrics were always bisquing in the classroom and we were involved, but the giant outdoor gas one was our glaze kiln and only the assistants and the professor were allowed to touch it.  I got to watch sometimes because I was a volunteer helper after my third class, but something something insurance and I wasn't an employee, etc etc.  Community college woes

Edited October 5, 2018 by liambesaw

[1515art]

22 minutes ago, liambesaw said:

Yeah I meant the gas kiln.  The electrics were always bisquing in the classroom and we were involved, but the giant outdoor gas one was our glaze kiln and only the assistants and the professor were allowed to touch it.  I got to watch sometimes because I was a volunteer helper after my third class, but something something insurance and I wasn't an employee, etc etc.  Community college woes

Times were very different when I was in college back in the 1970’s the whole getting sued thing wasn’t so out of control. I lived very near my local community college and the ceramics professor gave me a key to the studio so I could help fire the kilns, two big old alpines. 

[C.Banks]

On 10/4/2018 at 10:55 PM, liambesaw said:

Yeah I meant the gas kiln.  The electrics were always bisquing in the classroom and we were involved, but the giant outdoor gas one was our glaze kiln and only the assistants and the professor were allowed to touch it.  I got to watch sometimes because I was a volunteer helper after my third class, but something something insurance and I wasn't an employee, etc etc.  Community college woes

This serves to remind me how lucky I was.

My access to the studio was well worth the money I paid. The time spent  improved my understanding of ceramics from beginning to end. I left with a solid foundation to set up anywhere I can lay down cinderblocks.

Edited January 6 by C.Banks

[Hulk]

"Any road, formal education/training (that isn't crap) is worth it, imo, howeber, you gonna suffer, an' one can't go back neither. "

Oh dear!

My undergrad, English, was from departments that mostly serve the rest of the Universities (Cal States SLO and Hayward); looking back, a good mix of courses, and several profs who engaged, cared, and taught*. My overgrad, Computer Science, was from a department (also a Cal State) that mostly serves itself and seems to operate on principle of anyone who can survive artificially difficult curriculum will make the school look good, where a few maverick profs engaged, cared, and taught, and the rest can go to th'hot place!

Ahem, I'd classify both experiences as mostly not crap. In short, the opportunities changed my life. imo, much of what there is to experience in school is related to - it's magic, isn't it? - the group dynamic! ...assemble people who are interested in similar things and watch what happens!

Well, I'm (fresh, three months in) retired, taking the second of three JC courses now (they aren't very formal - access to the lab, a bit of demo/instruction, then go! + the group dynamic); doesn't look like any formal Ceramic ed in my future. That said, I'm devouring books, articles, utube vids, online forums ...so much to learn!

Finding a Pottery community, that might be a challenge. This forum is awesome! In person people - there's some potters around here...

 

*taught, as in focus on objectives - clearly stated, carefully considered specific measurable outcomes. Aaah, between the aforementioned English and CS degrees, I'd a year Credential program. My Master Teacher made rather a case for objectives! 

Edited October 5, 2018 by Hulk
oops, English major, indeed!

[Mark C.]

Formal education is  a key element in the whole process. I was raised in a art friendy home by educators. I was exposed to ceramics in 5th grade and again in high school. It took hold of part of me and I do not know why. I went on and got an art degree in collage over a 5 year process. I happened to learn from recent graduates from the golden age of Alfred graduates who got their 1st teaching jobs. They learned from the greats-like Rhodes etc. I was at the right place right time. Also one could find materials on the cheap and build kilns and obtain permits may back then. Thats all changed now.

Back in school I fired gas and electrics worked as a tech and fired kilns for work study money-built kilns-made bricks learned clay and glaze formulation

did low fire and high fire and raku and pit firing-made sculpture and made functional wares. Only in school is one exposed to it all and to get all the knowledge one needs to see it all.U-tube cannot hold a candle too this experience.

School was the beginning of my learning experience -Really just a jump off point looking back. Its the foundation of my career but the real learning was in the real world of business and the sheer number of years it takes to get good and succeed .Throwing really well takes everyone different amounts of time to master-for me it was about 7 or eight years to get handles and forms perfected and have then sell well.

I'm a big believer in formal education-our society improves with formal education.

The only downside these days is ceramic education has been slashed nation wide and there has been at least a twenty year bias towards sculpt vs functional wares in many collage programs. You can now get a degree in what I call (jar opening) where you learn very little except low fire sculpture making.Finding a good school these days is work.

[GEP]

My ceramics education was not formal. It consisted of informal recreational classes, plus some excellent workshops, lots of reading, plus the most important element which is years and years of hands-on experience and practice. It can be done, but it certainly takes a lot longer than 4 years. And you need to put together your own "curriculum" so to speak, and research where to get the training you want. Even advanced topics like kiln-building and fuel firing can be learned this way, if you search for it. On the plus side, it's a lot cheaper than college tuition. You can also be working full-time while you do it. 

I recently gave a throwing demo at a local community college. The classroom and facilities were beautiful! I was a little envious, and wished I could have learned in a setting like that. But at the same time, Mark mentioned this above too, if you get a college ceramics education, you are still short of the years and years of hands-on experience and practice that it takes to realize your goals. So condensing all the education into 4 years doesn't get you there any faster. 

I have a college degree in design, and I would not trade that educational experience for anything. It transformed me from a talented but naive/immature high-schooler into an adult who could navigate the professional world. This is not something you can teach yourself. It takes role models and a lot of guidance. 

[yappystudent]

Some points, although I think I've ground my views on this topic into the ground already. ..I feel quite salty ATM, so:

Suggesting studying or doing ceramics is "Hard Work" is funny. Anyone who thinks that has never done any actual hard work.

If college were available to everyone who deserves to go, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Of course all artists want to learn and take advantage of available resources, but they're priced out. Even sucky college classes would probably be worth it just for the connections you'd make with the art community and other benefits. Poor is rarely a temporary choice with options. Those who've got their piece of paper justify their good luck by assuming those who don't have one are lazy or misguided or stupid. No, they're just poor, and it's a lot more crippling than you think. Thank the Universe for Youtube and the interwebs, also the CAD site has a few helpful tips now and again but this argument is getting old. 

I'm starting to wonder if this topic keeps resurfacing because those who have a piece of paper want to reassure themselves they're safely in the elite and everyone else is not. It must be a very warm, secure place to be. I wonder what that's like? 

Edited October 6, 2018 by yappystudent

[Gabby]

4 hours ago, yappystudent said:

 

I'm starting to wonder if this topic keeps resurfacing because those who have a piece of paper want to reassure themselves they're safely in the elite and everyone else is not. It must be a very warm, secure place to be. I wonder what that's like? 

I don't know if you offered this speculation is jest, but my observation is actually opposite.  I think the desire to learn, in whatever area, is universal, and therefore considering how best to learn is interesting to people.

Those interested in an area often ask those already competent in an area what are the best or viable possible routes to gaining competency. 

I have heard actually quite heated discussion of this outside of the arts, with the most strident, typically, those whose education in a subject was not classroom-based.  I have heard this question discussed in the most heated way among those interested in advanced sciences (say, quantum physics)  whose knowledge of those subjects comes from the internet and are disappointed that their theories are not more seriously examined by those in academia or invited to the TED stage.

 

[liambesaw]

Almost half of adults have a college degree, I don't consider that to be elite by any standard.  If money is a barrier as a young adult, there is always time later in life to pursue a degree.  I was\am poor and will probably continue to be so, but later in life I decided to look into college and decided it was worth it.  I had to use grants and scholarships to afford school, had two infants at home, worked full time and ran a side business at the same time.  It was a tough 5 years, but it was worth it.  If money is the barrier there are many ways around it, and if you need help navigating the system let me know and I can help you.

[glazenerd]

Not sure this question really rests within the parameters of formal or informal education, but rather in the persons desire to learn. Just as the reactions to formal or informal education is based more in access and means, rather than desire. I did not receive a formal education in pottery, mostly because when starting out my goal was a diversion from life. Although I quickly learned that some basic education was required to achieve any level of successful outcome.

It took very little time for my personality to inject itself into my hobby: my curiosity, my thirst for truth, for fact, and for knowledge quickly took hold. Knowing what a motor does is not good enough for me, I have to take it apart and know in detail what each part does. I spent several years reading and studying books written before the 1980's by the major PHD's of ceramic and other related fields. So while my education was not in a formal setting, it was gleaned from those who were formally educated. I found internet searches useful, as long as the resource material was from credible sources. From every credible source I found, I found ten that were not.

After 7 or so years, I finally decided to mingle with other potters for the first time: which landed me here. Some of the information I found here confirmed what I held to be true: while some of it challenged it. The two years I have been here has taught me many things, less about pottery and much about personalities. There is something to be said about knowledge, but experience is what puts that knowledge into motion. Gaining knowledge through a formal or informal setting will provide you tools, but only experience will teach you how to use them. I do not regret my informal education, or the journey that it required, but I am also aware that a formal education would have saved me from the numerous potholes  I managed to step in.

T

[Denice]

I did a little ceramics when I was young but really got hooked on it in high school.   This was the late 60's so everything was pretty groovy.    I went to college a couple of different times  to finish my bachelors in Ceramics.    Besides what I learned in the ceramics department the other classes I took help me develop as a potter and artist.   Classes like Geology,  Astronomy and History are the ones a pull from for design inspirations.   I found out that I was a pretty good painter,  I love life drawing,  and art history brought out my inner researcher.   The only thing I would change is I wish I had a more advanced materials class and that my professor was around.    He was retiring my senior  year and I was pretty much on my own.    He spoke to me after my Senior Show and told me that my work was really good.  He said it made him realize that he didn't even know what I was doing and he was sorry he wasn't around.     Denice

[Mark C.]

(I'm starting to wonder if this topic keeps resurfacing because those who have a piece of paper want to reassure themselves they're safely in the elite and everyone else is not. It must be a very warm, secure place to be. I wonder what that's like? )

Yappy-I would like to add that a piece of paper has zero value-its the experience that one needs-its the quest for knowledge-not all can go to school and thats the way it is -but community collage is more affordable and adult Ed later in life is most avordable. The point is learning makes for better people .

You have that drive from what I know about you .Its the quest for learning that is more important than any piece of paper. My real learning was after school in the real world.I also went to school when one could work their way thru it as it was cheaper back then.

I have spent the last 7 years giving back some of my learning in ceramics in this forum  and mentoring-much of that knowledge was gained by the school of hard knocks.I have no paper that shows those bruises but they have the same value -maybe more.

I have never felt elite or thought of my BA as anything other than a lot of work.I do feel very lucky to do something I never felt as work like a regular job.

And that I get to use the school knowledge to work thru problems  as there always problems with ceramics.

 

 

[Pres]

Hi all,

Hard work, working hard, interesting as it brings back to light something I was told years ago by my Dad: I don't care what you decide to be in life, just so long as you decide to be the best at it you can be, even if it is a fine fine ditch digger. That also follows with something else I was told by an older colleague when teaching. . . If you just find something you love doing in life. . .you will never have to work a day of your life. Made sense to me.

As to education I always believed that part of the process of education was to help one find their gift/gifts. In all of my schooling there were always those better than I at something, and I better at things they were not, but even though I loved to draw, and paint and do other art areas, it really didn't strike me as when I first sat on the wheel. Would I have found that outside of school? Maybe, but then again probably not. Do I have other gifts? Who knows, as I have not done so much that is out there to do, but I did find one thing, and doing it brings so much happiness to my life, hard to imagine life without it.

 

best,

Pres

[yappystudent]

5 hours ago, Gabby said:

I don't know if you offered this speculation is jest.

No I offered it in complete sincerity. 

5 hours ago, Gabby said:

Those interested in an area often ask those already competent in an area what are the best or viable possible routes to gaining competency.

Clearly my personal experiences with teachers has been pretty lousy (although MS. Kim at CR was a rare exception <3) -as I've often described in my posts my usual experience when I asked a question in class was to be ignored or worse yet, quickly understood that I already knew more than the teacher thanks to self-study. My current teacher is now on vacation for two weeks AFTER class has started...rather than fill the page with useless, unwanted observations let's just say the trend continues. When do I get my money's worth?  What's the point of asking them anything? Like before I'm working on my own stuff, marking time because I have to take the beginner's class and can't afford the 'real' classes. Also, it's a prerequisite so we don't 'damage' the studio. That said, someone just put the large very much still wet vase I was working on in the kiln and fired it up. They had to dig it out from behind all my other work where I tried to hide it. Is this the level of competency I'm aspiring to? They must know something I don't....also somebody stole the silly little teacup pinchpots we were forced to spend the first class making, just to put the cherry on the cake. Fortunately tea is gross, I'm just wondering what else of my work will go missing or get blown up. 

5 hours ago, Gabby said:

I have heard actually quite heated discussion of this outside of the arts, with the most strident, typically, those whose education in a subject was not classroom-based.  I have heard this question discussed in the most heated way among those interested in advanced sciences (say, quantum physics)  whose knowledge of those subjects comes from the internet and are disappointed that their theories are not more seriously examined by those in academia or invited to the TED stage.

Gabby, I get your implications, you think I'm an upstart who doesn't know any better and is insecure about it, shouting to the empty air and just, well, embarrassing myself.  What you define as strident I'd call not being a sheep. I have no interest in being whipped into line to serve the machine. Surrendering creativity, free will, self-fulfillment, If that's what you enjoy dig in, there's plenty to go around if you want to waste a ton of cash and years of your life. Luckily, school is no longer necessary and is getting less so over time. I think this is awesome! 

A quote that expresses what I'm trying to say better than I can, from "A Language Older than Words" by Derrick Jensen: Through the process of schooling, each fresh child is attenuated, muted, molded, made- like aluminum -malleable yet durable, and so prepared to compete in society, and ultimately to lead this society where it so obviously is headed. (the entire book is about the collapse of the environment and what we've lost as human beings thanks to societal psychosis) -schooling as it presently exists, like science before it and religion before that is necessary to the continuation of our culture and to the spawning of a new species of human, ever more submissive to authority, every more pliant, prepared, by thirteen years of sitting and receiving, sitting and regurgitating, sitting and waiting for the end, prepared for the rest of their lives to toil, to propagate, to never make waves, and to live each day with never an original thought nor even a shred of hope. 

 

 

Edited October 6, 2018 by yappystudent

[Deleted user]

My partner (the main potter I assist) has formal education and a decade of mentorship, and I don't know how she would know what she does without it! Especially glaze creation and firing. I am always blown away at the complexity of something I used to cursorily think of as "simple".

However, if one is sincerely interested in educating oneself, and puts the 10,000 hours in? Nothing could stop them!
 

[LeeU]

17 hours ago, yappystudent said:

Those who've got their piece of paper justify their good luck by assuming those who don't have one are lazy or misguided or stupid.

I think that painting everyone with the same brush is inherently inaccurate.  I submit there are many people who do not justify their good fortune in earning a degree by assuming negative things about others who did not/were not able to go the same route.  Just because  someone is educated and has a degree, that does not automatically tell anybody anything about their life, their values, their struggles, their pain (or joy), their economic status (good or bad) or their politics/philosophy/world view. 

 I always wanted to study art and the creative process as expressed in this and other cultures, now and in history. The value of formal education in developing my skills in ceramics is worth 1000xs the price, for many reasons, and it is still paying off to this day.  As someone who earned a BFA from an esteemed art school, while on welfare and struggling mightily as a single parent with a toddler in tow, and 20 years older than the other students, in deep poverty, at times homeless, with many other crippling hardships, plus the add-on of student loans, I must assert how  enriching, valuable, freeing, and supportive of my creative expression and drive, and my very survival, the experience was.

What I got was a sterling education from the best faculty of knowledgible, competant, and skilled artists/instructors one could ever want. I have carried and used the benefits of that excellent education throughout all aspects of my life, not just in art interactions, but in ctitical thinking, world-view, career, understanding people and cultures, and many other areas of functioning. My formal training was invaluable and has enhanced my creative expression and appreciation of crafts & art. It took nothing away from my innate creative drive, my ideas, my self-concept/identity, or my preferences for working with my materials. When someone is being derisive and dismissive of that "piece of paper" Old Lady's line comes to mind:  "putting you down does not raise me up." Or rather, putting me down does not raise you up.

[Pres]

Oh my, yappy, I would hardly call my attaining a degree something elitist. I was an USAF brat during the 50's and 60's. We lived in many different places, with many different school districts, with good and bad teachers. I had some health problems early on, and was never very large in size, and one to get bullied. Most times it was flight or fight. I chose flight as I was faster, and they were much bigger. I was smart, but stupid in school. I knew the answers, and was eager to answer, at the same time that would bring yourself to center at times and leave you open to more of the pre mentioned problem. Even though smart, I did not do a whole lot of homework, had average grades, and was one of the ones at the back or middle of the class. Even in art I did not excel, as I never really took the time to finish much, getting bored with the process.

This brings me to college years, where the only school I could get into was a community college. . .I wanted to major in Industrial Design, but ended up in a Math/Science track, as there was very little I could afford in the way of an Industrial Design school on the east coast. 2 years later found me with 19 credits of heavy courses, a night job at a supermarket, and tons of homework that buried me. I flunked out. Wrote the Dean a letter that Summer, groveling to get back in as I could not transfer anywhere with my GPA where it was. One year later, I transferred to a state college, with a 1.999 average. They took me on probation on account of three things. . . My board scores back in my senior year of HS were 1200's so I was not stupid, my accum for the last year at community college was 4.9, and when the head of the art department asked what happened and added. . . .did you get a girlfriend? Then asked is she here, I had to answer yes she started the semester before me. So yeah really prestigious beginning, not to mention that before starting the last year at community college I was in a major car accident that put me in the hospital for 2 weeks, and left me basically 4F physically wearing a back brace and chest constrictor for a few years.

No college for me was tough, until I got my head wrapped around it, and got to a place where I found I could succeed. Grades the last few years were well over 3.5, and in grad classes the same. Took me till late 80's to get a MS in Art Ed, but all worth it. Never majored in Ceramics, or any other form of art, but have more studio time than many in a wide variety of media. Much of which I taught in HS

 

humbly,

Pres

 

[glazenerd]

Pres:

i was not going to respond, and had actually turned off my Ipad....but... I felt the need to respond.

after reading your personal story: it is my honor to bestow upon you a Masters a Degree in Tenacity, Adaption, and Courage!

a life well lived.  tom