removing large platter from the wheel

[eoteceramics]

Hi there,

Im looking for tips to remove a large platter from the wheel its going to be about 40 cm. Any previous ones ive removed with the wire , not great!

all suggestions appreciated.

 

julia

[liambesaw]

Use a large bat

[Babs]

Yes a bat if you've got one but maybe leave a bit more clay than you think you need to for the base. Cut with wire..twisted , when wheel is moving.

Can leave it to firm up a bit..

Can you watch folk doing it.

Don't hesitate just do it. Anydistortions can be rectified when your pot has firmed a bit.

Dont touch the rim but adjust shape further down the pot

[neilestrick]

Gotta throw it on a bat.

[eoteceramics]

Thanks,

sorry didnt mention it is on a bat. Just havent been able to get them off cleanly.

thanks Julia

[CactusPots]

What kind of bats are you using?  Large base pots will eventually release from my hyracal bats, but I usually cut them, then let them go to leather hard before flipping them onto another bat.  If for some reason the wire isn't a workable approach, I would think a plaster bat would be the trick.  It would be a specialty bat, as it would be fragile, but you'd have to have water absorbed to get the platter to release without the wire. 

[Benzine]

So, when you go to cut and remove it, from the bat, that's where you are having the issue(s)?

When are you wiring it? (Right after throwing, after it has set up for several hours to a day or two, etc)

What kind of bat, are you throwing on? (Plastic, plaster, masonite, etc)

What exact issues, have you run in to, with the way you have done it before? (It ends up being too thin, it leaves uneven marks, etc)

Also, do you trim any excess off the bottom, with a wood knife, turning tool, etc, right after throwing?

 

Personally, I use Wonderbats, which do well at absorbing water, and will allow the wares to "pop" off, once they have set enough.  I have found them to be a bit drier than I like for handle attachment, if I do this, so I tend to wire them, once I am done throwing.  I don't try and move them, it just allows them to release easily, once they have dried a little, but no so much, that I have issues with the handles. 

I've not done many large platters, but I have read, that people have had issues, if they let them dry too much, on the bat, before wiring, due to the large surface area, that is contracting against the bat. 

Also: If you are turning/ trimming the bottom, make sure to flip it, using another large bat, set on the rim, before inverting.  Plates and platters, have such a large open rim, they tend to distort, when inverted, compared to narrower forms.

[Bill Kielb]

I still use the old Masonite batts (have a ton of them) so cutting them early and then flipping them as early as practical is a must. To avoid the cutting issues I simply trim the excess clay at the bottom as a final step in throwing as close as practical and then neatly undercut the perimeter about a quarter of an inch with a needle tool. This groove allows the wire to easily cut the item off the batt with reasonable wiring practice.

once I can safely flip it onto another batt, I immediately put some cheap paper towels on the flipped ware and re-flip it onto a very straight batt. It now sits on the paper towels on the straight batt so I can put a weighted bean bag in the center and let it dry. The paper towels wick away the water and the whole thing drys pretty evenly and dead flat

kind of a cheap way to use my old Masonite batts, but the undercut has saved me lots of aggravation in the cutting department. It has never failed me since.

[Min]

Plaster batt, no wiring, problem solved.

If you do have to wire off because you're using a different sort of batt then using a thick wire helps to prevent the clay from resealing to the batt, this can happen if you use a finer gauge wire in which case you have to re-cut it which can create problems.

[Mark C.]

21 minutes ago, Min said:

Plaster batt, no wiring, problem solved.

If you do have to wire off because you're using a different sort of batt then using a thick wire helps to prevent the clay from resealing to the batt, this can happen if you use a finer gauge wire in which case you have to re-cut it which can create problems.

Yes the larger diameter wire will help-after lip is dry then put another large bat on top of platter and invert (flip) to dry our bottom.

[neilestrick]

On plastic bats, cut it right away, but then you'll have to recut it before it gets all the way to leather hard.

[liambesaw]

I try to trim my foot on the wheel before I fold the walls down, then just leave it on the Masonite until it pops off, comes off right when it's ready to trim.

[Benzine]

1 hour ago, Bill Kielb said:

I still use the old Masonite batts (have a ton of them) so cutting them early and then flipping them as early as practical is a must. To avoid the cutting issues I simply trim the excess clay at the bottom as a final step in throwing as close as practical and then neatly undercut the perimeter about a quarter of an inch with a needle tool. This groove allows the wire to easily cut the item off the batt with reasonable wiring practice.

once I can safely flip it onto another batt, I immediately put some cheap paper towels on the flipped ware and re-flip it onto a very straight batt. It now sits on the paper towels on the straight batt so I can put a weighted bean bag in the center and let it dry. The paper towels wick away the water and the whole thing drys pretty evenly and dead flat

kind of a cheap way to use my old Masonite batts, but the undercut has saved me lots of aggravation in the cutting department. It has never failed me since.

I also use a needle, before wiring, and advise my students, to do the same.  The students that cut the bottoms off their projects, do so, because they either made the bottoms too thin, or did not trim/ undercut the bottom, before wiring.

Instead of a cheap paper towel, what about using newspaper on the bat?  It is also quite absorbent, which is why crumpling it up, and stuffing inside of wet shoes, is a great way to dry them!

[Magnolia Mud Research]

I use either a canvas bat, tarpaper bat, or a cardboard bat (aka a soft bat) between the platter and the solid bat sitting on the wheel head.  These thin soft bats are attached to the solid bat with some slip.  When the rims of the platter have stiffened, I run a wire tool between the soft bat and the solid bat and either slide the platter off onto a drying rack, or flip the platter over onto a drying rack.  When the platter is leather hard, I peal the soft bat off.  Learned this technique from Fred Olsen at a workshop years ago.  Canvas/tarpaper bats are discussed in the textbook by Vince Pitelka. 

LT

[eoteceramics]

14 hours ago, liambesaw said:

I try to trim my foot on the wheel before I fold the walls down, then just leave it on the Masonite until it pops off, comes off right when it's ready to trim.

Thanks, do you know where supplies these batts, cant find them here in Ireland.

[eoteceramics]

9 hours ago, Magnolia Mud Research said:

I use either a canvas bat, tarpaper bat, or a cardboard bat (aka a soft bat) between the platter and the solid bat sitting on the wheel head.  These thin soft bats are attached to the solid bat with some slip.  When the rims of the platter have stiffened, I run a wire tool between the soft bat and the solid bat and either slide the platter off onto a drying rack, or flip the platter over onto a drying rack.  When the platter is leather hard, I peal the soft bat off.  Learned this technique from Fred Olsen at a workshop years ago.  Canvas/tarpaper bats are discussed in the textbook by Vince Pitelka. 

LT

Thanks for that Im going to try and source some of these items and give this a go.

[eoteceramics]

16 hours ago, CactusPots said:

What kind of bats are you using?  Large base pots will eventually release from my hyracal bats, but I usually cut them, then let them go to leather hard before flipping them onto another bat.  If for some reason the wire isn't a workable approach, I would think a plaster bat would be the trick.  It would be a specialty bat, as it would be fragile, but you'd have to have water absorbed to get the platter to release without the wire. 

Hi, Im using  wooden bats. No problem with everything else just large platters. i cut after throwing then let them go leather hard, the problem with the wire is its not staying flat against the bat and is cutting into the clay. Im going to try and source some items mentioned in this forum.  Thanks for your help.

[eoteceramics]

14 hours ago, Benzine said:

I also use a needle, before wiring, and advise my students, to do the same.  The students that cut the bottoms off their projects, do so, because they either made the bottoms too thin, or did not trim/ undercut the bottom, before wiring.

Instead of a cheap paper towel, what about using newspaper on the bat?  It is also quite absorbent, which is why crumpling it up, and stuffing inside of wet shoes, is a great way to dry them!

Thanks for all your help, and the tip for wet shoes!

Im going to take on board all the info here, i wont be defeated !

[eoteceramics]

17 hours ago, Benzine said:

So, when you go to cut and remove it, from the bat, that's where you are having the issue(s)?

When are you wiring it? (Right after throwing, after it has set up for several hours to a day or two, etc)

What kind of bat, are you throwing on? (Plastic, plaster, masonite, etc)

What exact issues, have you run in to, with the way you have done it before? (It ends up being too thin, it leaves uneven marks, etc)

Also, do you trim any excess off the bottom, with a wood knife, turning tool, etc, right after throwing?

 

Personally, I use Wonderbats, which do well at absorbing water, and will allow the wares to "pop" off, once they have set enough.  I have found them to be a bit drier than I like for handle attachment, if I do this, so I tend to wire them, once I am done throwing.  I don't try and move them, it just allows them to release easily, once they have dried a little, but no so much, that I have issues with the handles. 

I've not done many large platters, but I have read, that people have had issues, if they let them dry too much, on the bat, before wiring, due to the large surface area, that is contracting against the bat. 

Also: If you are turning/ trimming the bottom, make sure to flip it, using another large bat, set on the rim, before inverting.  Plates and platters, have such a large open rim, they tend to distort, when inverted, compared to narrower forms.

Im using wooden bats, hand made

I actually think Im making the base a bit thin. I  do trim with a wooden knife but havent tried the needle tool trick. I wire offf after throwing and then again after it is leather hard. the problem is the wire is cutting into the clay when I pull it through, cant seem to cut flat against the bat. There is lots of great advice here so Im going to try and source a different bat and try some of the other tips. Thanks, Julia

[Babs]

I'd say a bit of practice.

Throw some large flat discs. Tool off extra clay as described above. Practice drawing the wire towards you with wheel moving slowly.

Use a thicker wire. Be attentive to tightness of wire and positioning and securing of hands and elbows.

Leaving enough clay on bottom of platters is good advice. Even if you go a bit squeepif you can level it on the turning process.

Try 12 or so beforw spending money except on thicker or twisted wire.

There are posts here re. Making your own cutting wire.

Twisted heavy fishing line or guitar string work well

[Benzine]

Yeah, if you are cutting the bottoms too thin, just leave more, than you generally would.  Even with a thin wire, you are always going to leave some on the bat.  If you use an absorbent bat, like plaster, or some of the other wood-ish varieties, they will pop off clean, with no loss in thickness.  As I mentioned, this can be a problem, with forms, that have larger bottoms, due to the shrinkage.

The good think about thick bottoms, is you can always trim off the excess. 

Also, when throwing, don't be afraid to check the thickness, with a needle.  It's the best way to know for sure!

[eoteceramics]

Thanks to all for their advice and tips, Ive no excuses  now, Im off to throw a massive platter

[Hulk]

Plaster bats can be handy; there are several threads here discussing plaster.

I'm not allowed to borrow kitchen stuff, so bought up cake and pie pans (glass, ceramic and sheet metal) for bat molds. 100 lbs o' pottery plaster (more durable than regular plaster) makes a lot o' bats and slabs! ...50 lbs would be more than enough to get started...

Clay really sticks to plaster, as moisture flows from the clay quickly; the footprint of centered mound can be considerably smaller than on a slicker (plastic, especially) bat.

Plaster bats can also be useful in speeding drying of finished pieces, particularly the base.

Best luck with your massive platters!

[Denice]

My professor in college was known for his huge platters and had shows featuring them in Europe.   He would take a 25 lb bag of clay and center it on a large custom  plastic bat,  he was a large mountain man type and it would only take a few minutes to throw it.  Unfortunately we very never privy to how he took them off.   Denice

[hantremmer]

I've got a similar issue - except I've got a 14" plate directly on a 14" wheelhead.  No bat.   Plate is thin enough that I can see the wire rippling the clay as I pull it underneath.

I've covered it with a bag and am going to leave it overnight, so it will have 24 hours or so drying slowly.   What tips to getting this off the wheel safely and (reasonably) undeformed?