What Would Your Next Kiln Be?

[ronfire]

I was thinking of upgrading next year to a kiln with a controller  instead of the sitter that is in my old Skutt 231.

There is a good deal on 2 kilns a Skutt 1027 and an older Olympic kiln,both with sitters as well as misc tools,screens glazes etc for $1250. Hard to say no to but have my sights on a new kiln and don't really need all the other stuff.

 

 

So what brand would you prefer and why.

[bciskepottery]

When I was researching a new kiln, one of the things I found was some brands - including the two you mention -- often turned up on Craig's List, pottery bulletin boards, used kilns for sale by clay supply shops while other brands either did not show up or were rarely found on the resale market. That basically told me what folks thought of their kilns (or at least their initial purchases). I ended up buying an L&L kiln, new. Paid more for it than the others, but it will be a kiln for a lifetime. Of the two you mention, I've seen more Skutt kilns in studio environments.

[Benzine]

The kilns my college had (for bisquing) were Skutts.  The kiln in my first two school districts, were Skutts, some with cone sitters, and one with a controller.  I thought I really liked Skutt.

 

Then I came to my new district, and there was a L&L.  It fires so much better, and more accurately.

 

I have a Skutt, that I am refurbishing for my home studio.  The price was right (Free), so I couldn't turn it down.

 

Whenever I get a new kiln, it will be an L&L.

[Callie Beller Diesel]

The US/ CDN exchange rate isn't in our favour right now. Cone Art is one of the better ones on the market,and they're out of Ontario. And Mike at Ceramics Canada tells me they go on sale in December

[Pres]

I currently have an L&L that has no setter or controller. I have changed elements, changed switch blocks, and replaced lids and bottoms over the years. I do not use a hinged lid putting two handles on to have a more selective kiln sizing-2 to 4 rings. I could put on a controller, I have been strongly thinking about it. If I were to replace it, the new kiln would be with the controller, and it would be an L&L. Price aside, I really don't think anything else beats it out there.

 

 

best,

Pres

[bciskepottery]

The US/ CDN exchange rate isn't in our favour right now. Cone Art is one of the better ones on the market,and they're out of Ontario. And Mike at Ceramics Canada tells me they go on sale in December

Coneart is also a very nice kiln, well made for a lifetime. A good choice.

[Babs]

WIsh I was there.

I nursed my new kiln for 25 hours through its initial firing last week. Crept up 25deg/hr to 100deg, 50deg/hr to 700deg, 2 hour soak,  60deg/he to 1000 then 100/hour to 1100, two hr soak, bungs in , opened when back to ambient temp. Could see the cracks on top bricks during firing, cracks on the top bunghole liner rings. Came up with cracks from top bricks near each corner down the entire depth of the kiln. Have been told by manufacturer that this is just the kiln settling and should be fine now. I dismantled my old kiln yesterday, the bricks were dry stacked, couple of cracked ones, but damaged grooves, very sagging lid, corroded other stuff was the reason for getting a new one. Was about 40 yrs old  I had it rebricked about 20 years ago.Just to keep you in the pic. this newkiln cost just under $12,000 unfurnished, with a controller of a different type I ordered. Posted before, I will take up residence next to a reputable kiln builder etc next time.

It radiates a lot more heat than my old one which was  dry stacked, space filed with vermiculite, I think, then just a hard board.  Totally manual

Next kiln, well this one should see me out but resale value....

SO when quibling on a few dollars think of us in Australia...... How many mugs do I have to make?

Will test its firing efficiency next week, should be less stressful now I have put the first scratch in the new vehicle so to speak!

[ronfire]

There are a lot of Skutt kilns on the market that I see for sale. they have a good price point but I am considering the L&L due to the element holders. I replaced the elements on my 231 when I got it, paid too much for it but learned a lot. Replacing the elements was stressful due to the soft bricks so this makes me think of L&L.  If L&L has such a good system for there element groves why has do the others not start with the same idea?  Cone Art looks like a good kiln with the 3 zone control and is made here in Canada. There is not a huge difference in price so I could have a L&L shipped to the boarder and pick it up there to bring home. I will wait a few months yet before ordering, the $$ exchange might make the difference.

Sure appreciate the input from the members that have been using kilns longer than I have.

[neilestrick]

If L&L has such a good system for there element groves why has do the others not start with the same idea?

 

For all the other brands to start using them, they would have to admit that the L&L design is better, which they will not do. It would also mean re-tooling their production line, which costs money.

 

The L&L system makes element changes much easier and faster, and makes the bricks last much longer.

[Joseph Fireborn]

I went with L&L. I could have gotten a skutt that was significantly bigger. However, when I looked in it. I saw one thermocouple as opposed to two in the smaller L&L kiln. I took out the peeps and saw how they were taupered, which made it practically impossible to see in the little whole. The L&L had inch wide ones, which made it super easy. The L&L had the element holders. It just kept adding up. I eventually choose Quality over Quantity of space. I am going to have to change my elements soon, and I am excited I am finally going to get to experience that! The money I paid extra for will finally pay off completely.

[rayaldridge]

I just bought an L&L and though I haven't fired it yet, I've been impressed with the engineering.  I've owned a number of manual kilns, Paragons and Olympics mainly, and the L&L is obviously of higher quality.  Many thanks to Neil for promoting this company!

[Min]

If you have a strong back then a top loading kiln is fine but for any of us shorties having a front loading kiln is soooo much easier on the back. One of mine is a top loader, the other a front loader, the front loader is by far my preferred kiln to load/unload. Bailey makes a front loader with a knock-off of the L&L element holders. If our exchange rate was better I would be tempted by one of the ThermalLogic Shuttle Kilns if/when I need to replace one of them. 

https://www.baileypottery.com/KilnsandAccessories/FrontLoadingElectric/BaileyThermalLogic.aspx

[Mark C.]

Mine would be a L&L

Mark

[Bioman]

If electric an L&L front loader as I am getting older.

 

If gas is practical at that time, a gas front loader as I would prefer to go that way over electric.

[ronfire]

Sounds like L&L is the favourite. Would you spring for the Quad element option. might be worth the $300 for a more even heat.

[DirtRoads]

I have 2 L&L's Quad Pro's for glaze firing and a Paragon TNF 27-3 for bisque firing.

 

You have to consider the model, not just the brand.

 

I can not say enough about the L&L Quad Pro.  Element life, if you used 3 times a week, is 3 years.

 

The Paragon TNF 27-3 is good for  04-05 bisque firing.  I would not recommend it for consistent cone 5-6 firings.  Even though it is rated for Cone 10.   When I got first got into pottery, I went to a dealer to purchase a Paragon Dragon front loading kiln.    And was talked down to the TNF 27-3.  Now I know you need to "kiln up".  I will always wonder what my experience with that Dragon would have been.  Paragon service has been good but I had fits with that first TNF 27-3.  I trashed it (literally) after 2 years.  However, I did purchase a 2nd one for bisque only and have been pleased.  I got it  because it was easy to just plug it in the same receptacle.

 

If I only had one kiln it would be an L&L Quad Pro.   The element life and holders.  Plus the consistency of firing.  Once I saw Neil say he didn't use witness cones .... you have so little trouble with the L&L's you don't really need them.

[DirtRoads]

Sounds like L&L is the favourite. Would you spring for the Quad element option. might be worth the $300 for a more even heat.

 

Yeah the Quad element is worth it.  Just remember this:   There is a problem with the lid.  It slips down.   And I'm not the only person that has had this problem.  If you get this kiln, put a cement block and some bricks under the back of the lid so it will not slip down.  You can also move the lid bracket up to the top of the kiln.  If you don't do this, your top ring will crack due to the pressure. I have also taken the springs out of my lids to help with this problem.  Really the cement block would probably solve the problem ... I just found out about this solution last spring.  If you get one and don't understand what I'm talking about, give me a call.

[neilestrick]

This is the first I have heard of the lid slipping. Do you mean that the hinge plate itself slides down, like the screws aren't holding it solid? When installing the hinge plate, before tightening the screws that hold it to the kiln jacket, you have to push the plate up so the hinge rod sits in the very bottom of the holes it goes through in the plate. Those holes are elongated to allow the lid to lift and move as it expands during firings. If you don't get the rods into the bottom of the holes, the lid will tilt down in back as you raise it up in front, and damage the bricks. If the hinge plate is slipping down, then I would double check the tightness of the screws and make sure they're not stripped out. I have never heard of one slipping, as there are a ton of screws holding it, but I suppose it is a possibility. I'm also not sure how removing the springs makes any difference.

[DirtRoads]

This is the first I have heard of the lid slipping. Do you mean that the hinge plate itself slides down, like the screws aren't holding it solid? When installing the hinge plate, before tightening the screws that hold it to the kiln jacket, you have to push the plate up so the hinge rod sits in the very bottom of the holes it goes through in the plate. Those holes are elongated to allow the lid to lift and move as it expands during firings. If you don't get the rods into the bottom of the holes, the lid will tilt down in back as you raise it up in front, and damage the bricks. If the hinge plate is slipping down, then I would double check the tightness of the screws and make sure they're not stripped out. I have never heard of one slipping, as there are a ton of screws holding it, but I suppose it is a possibility. I'm also not sure how removing the springs makes any difference.

 

Well I had to replace my top ring last December.   They were like ... send us a picture but I never did.  I never mentioned it because I put out $200k plus of wares on that kiln and didn't find it to be that much of an expense to replace the ring.  The lid just kept slipping down.  We moved all the screws up to the top of the slot as you can see.   Then someone told me to just use that concrete block and the lid never slips again.  I'm think the first kiln just wasn't set right, maybe it was too low, but I didn't notice it.  Can't say I've had this problem with the 2nd L&L Quad because we moved the screws up from day one.  And then heard about the concrete blocks so we've got those on both kilns.  (I know of this happening to 2 other people ... and the blocks stopped it).   I removed all tension bar and springs because the kiln lid didn't want to lay flat.  It keep slipping down and with that little latch closed the back side of the top ring was getting crushed.  With the blocks in place, I could probably put them back in but why bother.  The L&L Quad's put out the finished goods, with no glitches at all.

 

I certainly don't see this small issue as a barrier to purchase, as I purchased a 2nd one last December. I haven't given this a second thought since that person told me to put those concrete blocks under the lid brace.  Just thought I would pass this on to new purchasers.  It's a $5 fix to a kiln that will give you $200K of wares.  I'm sold on the L&L Quad Pro.  I don't think I would still be in the pottery business if I hadn't found it.    IF I thought I could handle loading more kilns, I would get a 3rd one.  Another issue is the 200 amp service.  I couldn't get a certified electrician to install another kiln on my existing service (even though you can promise there is NO way I would ever run more than 2 kilns at a time). 

 

In no way should this little issue be a reason to NOT get the L&L Quad Pro.

[neilestrick]

Thanks for the explanation. I've never seen this before, but it's good to be aware of it being a possibility. I'm not sure how hinge plate can slip if the screws are at the top of the slots, though. Is it possible that the outer jacket became loose and was slipping down, taking the hinge with it?

[Cavy Fire Studios]

As much as I looooooove my ancient, grumpy old Skutt 251, my sweet Fred, I really need something a little smaller. Fred's chubby three-ring body has just too much space for my creaky hands to fill up anymore...but, I'll NEVER give him up. He was my first and only kiln, and a priceless treasure in my heart. Maybe someday my hands will be able to fill him up again properly, too.

 

I'd LOVE a front-loader! Not sure about capacity; maybe about half of what Fred can hold. Front-loaders are so much easier on my broken back, hahaha... Sadly, I don't have a few grand lying about. I'd like a test kiln, too!

[DirtRoads]

Thanks for the explanation. I've never seen this before, but it's good to be aware of it being a possibility. I'm not sure how hinge plate can slip if the screws are at the top of the slots, though. Is it possible that the outer jacket became loose and was slipping down, taking the hinge with it?

The screws are not at the top of the slots from the factory.  We moved them up, as you can see the old holes.   I think L&L should change this but they said something about the lid being able to slide up as the kiln expands.   On my first kiln, the outer jacket was not high enough on the top ring.   When I ordered a replacement L&L asked me to send pictures but I was so busy I didn't have time. 

[neilestrick]

 

Thanks for the explanation. I've never seen this before, but it's good to be aware of it being a possibility. I'm not sure how hinge plate can slip if the screws are at the top of the slots, though. Is it possible that the outer jacket became loose and was slipping down, taking the hinge with it?

The screws are not at the top of the slots from the factory.  We moved them up, as you can see the old holes.   I think L&L should change this but they said something about the lid being able to slide up as the kiln expands.   On my first kiln, the outer jacket was not high enough on the top ring.   When I ordered a replacement L&L asked me to send pictures but I was so busy I didn't have time. 

 

 

Right, the screws are not at the top of the holes/slots in the hinge plate because there needs to be adjustability, because if you ever have to change a brick (which requires loosening the jacket), it may not go back together exactly the same. Plus everything moves over time, so the slotted holes allow for the hinge plate to be adjusted as needed. Here's a pic of what I'm talking about:

 

The holes L&L is talking about are the holes that the hinge rod/bar goes through. These holes are elongated to allow the lid to expand and lift as needed during a firing. Because the holes are elongated, you have to make sure the hinge rod is sitting in the bottom of the elongated hole, otherwise the lid will drop down in back as you open it, crushing the brick on the top row of the kiln wall in back:

 

This is another reason the hinge plate must be adjustable. In order to get the hinge rod/bar sitting in the bottom of the elongated hole, you have to be able to slide it up into position. It's simple to do when you set up the kiln, you just have to be aware of it. L&L has all this info in their setup instructions.

 

If you did all that and it still didn't work then that's a different problem, and one I'd like to figure out.