How Wet When Throwing?

[Pres]

Maybe I should have said "after working in the shop with the clay, when I go into the house I look like I have been playing in the mud"! I am on my knees begging forgiveness, but then again once said no taking back.

[Benzine]

I realize, that the "Play with clay" statement, does give those, who don't know about all the time and energy that go into clay work, the wrong impression. At the same time, I think there is a bit of resentment by those, who would never consider their work to be anything people would enjoy doing, for fun.

[ChenowethArts]

I realize, that the "Play with clay" statement, does give those, who don't know about all the time and energy that go into clay work, the wrong impression. At the same time, I think there is a bit of resentment by those, who would never consider their work to be anything people would enjoy doing, for fun.

 

Benzine, I think you've nailed it as a matter of perception.  There is a quote from Confucius,“Choose a job you love, and you will never have to work a day in your life.† Note that the quote doesn't say/imply, "Choose a job you love and you will play the rest of your life."   Based upon those perceptions, I know a bunch of clay folks who quit 'working' a long time ago even though they dedicate their lives, countless hours, and creative energy in/around the studio...having a lot of fun!

[DJS]

Real green newbie here.  Do you wet your wheel and then slam your clay onto it??  Seems if I wet the wheel my piece slides and won’t stayed centered

[Hulk]

Hi DJS!

I'll wipe the bat with the big sponge if has some dried clay on it (or clay of a different colour), however, it's too wet if my forearm (skin) slides - wait a bit or rub it off some with that forearm; that said, no, usually don't wet/wipe the bat, as it's clean enough from last time...

Am not slamming either, looking to put the clay ball as close to center as possible, then pat/slap it to get it closer while slowly rotating, and from there, seal the edge to the bat before wetting the clay and moving on with centering up.

The clay ball's footprint on the bat has to be big enough such that it grips and doesn't slide; when going for a narrow and tall piece, there may be some trimming away necessary after getting near to final shape, eh? The slicker bats are more prone to the sliding...

Bats that aren't fully sealed - pressboard - could use a bit o' dampening first tho', as they absorb water.

[Pres]

Like Hulk, I really don't wet the wheel or slam the clay. I have a simple method of starting the wheel on low, using a damp sponge to put a little water on the wheel soaking most up with the sponge while the wheel turns. I then toss the clay into the center of the wheel and start to center. When working with larger pieces of clay. . . over 5# I use a slap centering method to follow up on the first two steps instead of immediately trying to center. This technique uses both hands opposite one another rhythmically slapping the clay into a cone shape that eventually is more centered. I do not slap hard, just constant at a medium slow wheel speed. Then I use the normal centering that I do.  Slap centering is especially helpful the larger the clay amount gets, allowing me to center up to 25# when needed.

 

best,

Pres

[neilestrick]

If you're using a plastic bat or metal wheel head, do not put water on it. The clay won't stick when those surfaces are wet. Also make sure your hands are dry so yo udon't get water on the clay before you stick it to the wheel. With wood or pressboard bats, a quick wipe with a slightly damp sponge will help the clay to stick because those surfaces are absorbent, and will dry out the clay where it contacts the bat and make it come loose.

[CactusPots]

I use so much water I put drains in my splash pans.  Super soft clay when throwing over 12lbs, which I do a lot.  My main reason for having a pugmill.  I like lots of water because it's warm and helps my hands.  I constantly mop up the water from the bottom of the pot, maybe every pull.  Soft clay because I don't care to fight to get on center.  Interesting that the consensus is that better throwers use less water.   I can't claim to be a better or faster thrower, doesn't really interest me.  I've never worked under a teacher, so I just throw to please myself.

[liambesaw]

I think porcelain throwers use less water because of the thixotropy involved when going bigger?

I use enough water for centering, opening and pulling, for shaping I use much less. I don't think it matters a whole lot as long as you're not making soup in your form.  

Watch someone like ingleton pottery on YouTube and you'll see soft clay and lots of water, but very quick.  His splash pan is a bathtub.

[Hulk]

Someone pointed out that Ingleton guy uses clay that's quite different than our'n - have forgotten the detail; there are other very skilled throwers that sluice their work, some work very dry, and in between as well.

[Chilly]

Ingleton Pottery Dan and his Dad, whose name I've forgotten.

 

[Kosch]

This is something I've been struggling with, especially after watching a number of videos. I primarily use Georgies G-Mix 6 (no grog), and while reasonably soft, it isn't especially moist. I find dumping water and then mopping up and scraping off with a rib quickly to help a good bit. Since I started I've definitely been using much less water, but it still varies with the bag of clay or my skill (or lack thereof) for the day.

But, and keep in mind I've only been doing this around 2.5 years so still consider myself a beginner, something I've realized is that many of the videos I've watched (such as Ingleton and Simon Leach) seem to have rather moist clay. So here's my theory: when reclaiming clay we like to dry it out COMPLETELY because being this dry allows the ingress of water during slaking to take place much more quickly. When something is already fairly moist it is less likely to imbibe water (same with temperature as I recall, temperature changes between hot and cold slow as they reach equilibrium). So with a clay body that already has a higher moisture content, you can douse it in water and it is much less likely to become overly saturated than a drier clay. I briefly tested this myself with some clay I had thrown on the block to dry. I bagged it back up when it was much more moist than originally and tried throwing with it a couple days later. Still much more moist but didn't seem to imbibe near as much water as fresh clay out of the bag.

Anyway, just wanted  to throw that out there. I may try misting while wedging sometime to add some moisture and see if that makes a difference.

[Stephen]

On 1/25/2020 at 4:55 PM, liambesaw said:

I think porcelain throwers use less water because of the thixotropy involved when going bigger?

yep, too much water and things go to crap real fast.

[tomhumf]

I didn't realise when I started out how much the same type of clay varies from the supplier ( mine anyway) . Sometimes it's perfect, the last batch has been so stiff it's hard to wedge. Not something a beginner would realise that they might have to wedge some softer clay together with harder to get a good consistency. 

I have got bags before with loads of finger holes poked in the clay with water added to the bag, obviously it had firmed up  too much. Occasionally it has been too soft and I need to wedge it up on a plaster bat for some time.

[Pres]

27 minutes ago, tomhumf said:

I didn't realise when I started out how much the same type of clay varies from the supplier ( mine anyway) . Sometimes it's perfect, the last batch has been so stiff it's hard to wedge. Not something a beginner would realise that they might have to wedge some softer clay together with harder to get a good consistency. 

I have got bags before with loads of finger holes poked in the clay with water added to the bag, obviously it had firmed up  too much. Occasionally it has been too soft and I need to wedge it up on a plaster bat for some time.

Tom, you have targeted one of the facts we must deal with. ... potters are at the mercy of their suppliers. About the only way to handle that if your materials are not delivered in a proper manner is to find other suppliers. However, over the years I have seen steps that I had thought mad little sense. One of these was the not placing twisty ties on the bags anymore; obviously a cost cutting measure, but in retrospect one that matters very little. If the boxes remain intact, and the bags inside remain intact, then there should be no problem. I really don't see as a direct supplier would open a box and poke holes in the bags to moisten the clay, but . . . who knows. I have not had any problem with my supplier, as they are the manufacturer and usually the turnaround for clay orders in negligible. 

All of this in defense of suppliers or manufacturers, I know that I abuse my own clay.  It freezes most winters in December and does not thaw until April. It sits under my kayaks in the Summer, baking under the tarp. I have come to realize that because of my mistreatment each box is in need of wedging, and often mixing between two boxes/bags. I use the bread cut and slam method to start, and then finish with spiral cone wedging. Frustrating, but my fault.

 

 

best,

Pres

[liambesaw]

My supplier recently changed hands and my latest batch of clay is not only a different color, but it's also much softer.   Not happy with that, and I told them.  They said they've been having some issues with their clay press so I'm hoping that my next batch will be better.... But it's gonna be a while, my last order was half a ton and it's taking me a while to get through since I have to dry it a bit

[neilestrick]

We have to remember that the people actually mixing the clay don't necessarily know anything about clay. They're paid labor, and may not have ever made a pot in their lives. So unless they've been making clay for a long time, it's up to management to make sure things are done right, which can be difficult, because keeping an eye on the production line is probably just one of their responsibilities. Changes in the weather can affect how the clay comes out, even with batches made only a few hours apart. Changes in the moisture level of the raw materials can also affect the final softness of the clay. It's not easy to get things perfect when you're working with the volume they are. It's a totally different beast than making a few hundred pounds in your studio. There will always be an acceptable range for the softness of the clay, and it's not so hard to stay within that. But if you prefer stiff clay and you've got clay that's on the soft side of the range, it can be annoying.

That said, finger holes with water added to the bag is unacceptable. They should have put that clay back in the mixer and made it right. Finger holes in the bags that make the clay dry out are also unacceptable. I've seen more of that lately than I'd like to.

[oldlady]

for those of you who would like a more workable clay and find yours too hard, try dropping it on the floor several times.   if it is in the bag, turn it over at each drop.   it will usually become more plastic and might be easier to work.

[Pres]

Marcia Selsor always recommends that, as I had been taught years ago. Called waking up the clay by some.

 

best,

Pres

[liambesaw]

33 minutes ago, oldlady said:

for those of you who would like a more workable clay and find yours too hard, try dropping it on the floor several times.   if it is in the bag, turn it over at each drop.   it will usually become more plastic and might be easier to work.

True, I usually slam wedge before wedging which accomplishes a similar goal