Evelyne Schoenmann Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 In a book about ritual Japanese tea bowls I've read that the Japanese people say: "The harder you seek perfection the more difficult it becomes." What do you think - right? wrong? (other?) Evelyne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claygram Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 right on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evelyne Schoenmann Posted October 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 Hi claygram. Can you elaborate a bit please. Do you have a story for us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cavy Fire Studios Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 Totally 110% correct. Not to mention the heartburn you'll give yourself trying! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolieo Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 Great topic Evelyne! Idk.... Perfection or beauty is in the eye etc. I take what I find beautiful, ideal, perfect and I attempt to capture the essence of what makes it so for me. I doubt I succeed w/o trying many ,many times, but in my efforts, if I keep my vision focused, and my mind clear, I might achieve what I believe is art. It is the interpretation of beauty , ideals, life, through another's eyes that adds interest, sparks a response in me. I do not believe we can get there w/o shooting the moon. Then after much practice muscle memory, brain muscle memory, and true understanding of what is trying to be said brings us to that zen place. The frustration, the failure is just the learning process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judith B Posted October 14, 2015 Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 Ideally perfection is not something we should be seeking, I guess it should just almost happen with years and years and practice. However, we all want to do our best and I feel that as long as we worry about being perfect, we won't be. Maybe we need to let go and just let things happen to be closer to perfection. But what is perfection anyways? ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denice Posted October 14, 2015 Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 I use to be a mad perfectionist but have learned to loosen the reins a little, after seeing the video on ceramic 3D printing I think I am going have to throw the reins away. Loosen up and let the work be less perfect so that customers will realize that it is hand made. I have even had customers pick a pot with a bleb in the glaze because they felt the bleb gave it a handmade feel. There is no competing with 3D printing when it comes to perfectionism so I guess I am going to slide the other direction. Denice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted October 14, 2015 Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 I think this can be interpreted in several ways. If I understand this as it was meant by the Japanese, then perfection comes from the absence of ego, that there is perfection in selfless action. But when I first read it I thought it simply sounded like a slacker's mantra- why bother trying at all. As I thought about it more, I came to the conclusion that perfection becomes more difficult to achieve because we are pushing the limits of our abilities, but it doesn't mean we shouldn't still strive for perfection. It's not a reason to give up. Why not try to be the very best you can be? And it doesn't mean that less-than-perfect results aren't acceptable. Every attempt is a necessary part of the education needed to achieve perfection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babs Posted October 14, 2015 Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 And will it be recognised if reached?? MAybe it is about learning curves and plateaux?/ yeh,nailed it, now relax and bask in the glory???? Don't think that happens in the real world of clay... Hmmm Depends what lens you are viewing thro' on the day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinks Posted October 14, 2015 Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 The perfect saying"Enjoy yourself- it is later than you think"...this should be the art of perfection. During the swing/journey of perfection ,we must do the best we can with what we have.. practicing my art in uprightness and honor. Vinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bciskepottery Posted October 14, 2015 Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 If I understand this as it was meant by the Japanese, then perfection comes from the absence of ego, that there is perfection in selfless action. /quote] You nailed it, Neil. Especially in the context of the tea ceremony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pres Posted October 14, 2015 Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 Outside of context, especially as I know so little about the Japanese tea ceremony or even tea bowls, defining the pursuit of perfection is problematic. As I strive to be perfect in my throwing and the forms of my pots, along with the selection of color and glazes with glaze fit, and the way the kiln fires without the electronic controller, in the end I realize that if all of these variables were perfect, it would only be in my recognition of them. At the same time, if I can never recognize a pot less than perfect still being quite good, then would I ever complete or have any finished pottery? I think not. I think when you pursue perfection, as most of us do, you come to realize that in the creation there are flaws that occur from our own persona, and that allows us to pursue perfection but still produce. This is not an approval though of poorly designed, ill thought out, sloppy or shoddy work, only permission to be perfect within your own abilities. Yes, maybe denying ego in the creation makes production easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Campbell Posted October 14, 2015 Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 I have never sought 'perfection' as most define it .... It has never made sense to me. I have watched so many people suck the joy out of pottery making by trying to be perfect, dreading the possibility of doing it wrong. 'Perfection' seeking denies the pleasure of simply doing things as best you can and enjoying your own unique ways through the process. I think it makes me more of a realist than a slacker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted October 14, 2015 Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 My head hurt thinking about this question. My conclusion is: art can be perfect for one viewer but not (necessarily) another, a fully finished crossword where all the letters fit together is perfect, pottery that is functional can't be perfect if it (say) leaks, but can still be visually perfect (see #1) So, seeking perfection only works in a media where you can define perfection. And, for me, I have dinnerware that was sold as "seconds" but as it is still functional I love it. Seeking (buying in this case) perfection cost more but comparing the pile of plates where some are seconds and some are not - can I really tell the difference 30+ years on? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claygram Posted October 16, 2015 Report Share Posted October 16, 2015 No Evelyne, I have no story. It was just my gut reaction from twenty-five years of loving clay. I think everyone here has said it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evelyne Schoenmann Posted October 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2015 Very interesting posts above! Thank you all for participating. I used to be a perfectionist too and was always so disappointed when I didn't reach the goal I set myself. But when I got older I thought that maybe the goal is set too high, is unreachable. That's one of the reasons I started to do Chawans (traditional Japanese tea bowls). In that context I learned another Japanese wisdom: “The less perfect it appears, the more honest an object it is†(Arhoj) Evelyne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebekah Krieger Posted October 20, 2015 Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 There is no right or wrong approach to the quote. It is either accepted or not. To strive for perfection = struggle. Struggle can only happen in the anticipation of a future moment. Struggle does not "actually" happen if you do not have anticipation. Your mind may struggle at the moment, but it is not because you are in the moment, it is because you are anticipating. To be fully present one must let go of struggle and struggle also is usually done in a strive to fulfill a story of "i" or to defend it. . (ego = the story of "i") "The harder you seek perfection, the more difficult it becomes" Certainly does not sound like a Japanese work philosophy. But it does sounds like a philosophy on a spiritual standpoint in how to live your daily life. If one is fully skilled in their craft, then they can be fully present in the making process so it could be applied at some point. When you create the story "i am potter" you add pressure to the situation, your identity is now involved rather than the simple making process. Be skilled, and then remove your struggle in the making process. But one cannot achieve the making process without skill. The quote I have always said (and i am sure others have said it before me in other ways) "to strive for perfection is self abuse" because perfection is impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evelyne Schoenmann Posted October 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 Hi Rebekah, I am always happy to see you here. Thank you for the interesting and philosophical post. Well, the saying was taken from a book about making Chawan, so it must be about Japanese potters?) work philosophy. And yes, maybe perfection is impossible. And maybe perfection is something else for every individual.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.