QotW: How do you react to the use of 3D printing and other technologies being developed in Ceramics?

[Pres]

Years ago, at the middle to later part of my teaching career I collaborated with a music teacher to write a grant for an Arts computer lab. This would be a lab to do 2D and 3D animation along with the use of paint and photo software to for imaging. The grant was approved after many hours of work and 2 consecutive tries. The grant included a new course called Electronic Studio Arts that had a co-taught course of the same name. We combined music images and animation as presentation media. My belief at the time was that much would be done in the video arts with animation, and that music would also benefit from uses of technology to create new music.  My colleagues were mixed in their acceptance of this new technology and one in particular was completely against it, often trying to block my movement towards the new course and used to the rumor mill to besmirch the concept.

I look at what is happening with the 3D printing going on with ceramics, and the roots that are reaching into many areas of art and technology of late and am amazed by what folks are achieving. I have done some 3D modeling for concept development of some mixed construction ideas in throwing and handbuilding. The 3D imaging gives me an idea of scale and proportion before throwing the parts or making the slabs to go with them.

QotW: How do you react to the use of 3D printing and other technologies being developed in Ceramics? 

best,

Pres

[GEP]

My take on 3d printing in ceramics … when a tool is providing 100% of the construction, the process is only about the design and nothing else. So the design better be amazing! And if it is, then there’s a lot to admire about good design. And if it’s not, then there’s not much value to the finished item. 

[Denice]

I consider it a new type of art,  it is just one evolutionary  step towards man's development into a big head,  tiny body in a space suit.    I watched a commercial for new shoes that you slip on and didn't have to bend over.   They have had fake tied shoes for years,  I have seen a lot of other products come out that eliminate the use of your hands, legs or arms.   I realized how fast this is happening the other day.   I  was visiting my neighbor she is 45 years old,  she had to leave to get her daughters school clothes hemmed.   They had never owned  a sewing machine or knew how to hand hem.   I grew up with four sisters,  there was a waiting line for the sewing machine we made our own clothes.   This couple doesn't know how to do anything themselves, everything is hired out.  This must mean their parents were clueless, and they are raising clueless children.   In my youth a song by Zager&Evans  IN THE YEAR  2525  was on the radio,  I had a feeling then they were predicting the future.  I better end this now before my arms are hanging useless at my side.   Denice

[Hulk]

Looks cool.
I'm not very interested in 3D printing just now, perhaps down the line*.

I like throwing, and have learned to enjoy trimming, glazing, mixing glazes, and can tolerate straightening up, mopping, and that, all necessary...

There's some modern-ish stuff in my ceramic experience - led lighting; uhm, my wheel's control board (it's a Minarik drive); internet resources and devices to access same; my new kiln's control board and interface; a few softwares, Excel spreadsheet, simple word processing, GlazeMaster; an inexpensive scale that requires a battery; the new hepa filter standalone unit has integrated PM 2.5 sensing**, there's that; and maybe some other I'm not remembering.

I've done some modeling using an animation package (what was one of the better ones some twenty years ago), very fun; worked plc, pc, server, network and such gear in industrial, server farm, and development environs; worked with software, custom/industrial and commercial; have "always" been interested in taking things apart, fixing & assembling, liked math, coding, working with machines, and worked in a machine shop, bla-bla...
With clay, I just want to throw, and that's what I'm going to do now!

Oh, I want something to check wall thickness past where I can reach easily with thumb and finger - I just don't have the spatial for it.
There are commercial calipers, however, the ones I like are expensive, so I'm still deciding what to make and try.
An imaging device of some kind that will depict the ware profile and indicate the thicknesses in inches or mm, yeah, I want that.

*...not knowing what I'll be able to do, nor what I might be interested in in future, eh?
**that we can check via the "App" (and it retains a few days of history)

Edited August 21 by Hulk
footy note

[Pres]

Thinking about some of these posts, makes me wonder if we are losing some of our own hand dexterity when we short cut some tasks>

best,

Pres

[Mark C.]

I have yet to see a great pot from one them yet.

Great tool for mold making. 

ceramic machine parts are a good use

Its a step away from clay really as clay is not touched

Hand made ceramics vs mold ceramics vs 3 d ceramics-which would you prefer your mug to be?

Gen Z may not care

[High Bridge Pottery]

My parents still prefer the handmade mugs I made 10 years ago to my slipcast work from 3D printed molds  Even if it took me a lot more creative effort to get to that slipcast piece they just enjoy the handmade feel. I guess it's the same way a print has much less soul than the original painting.

[Mark C.]

I care and my customers care-they want hand made mugs-in fact they want all handmade functional items. That why I have made a good living for 50 years with that concept in play.

For me all the rest is Less. Turns out I am not alone in that thought

Yes I have had  a slip cast business at one time 30 years  ago making aroma therapy lamps (1,000s) and that for me is what slip cast is all about-. mass produced industrial items. A lamp does not need to be hand thrown.But I have yet to have a slip cast mug in my hand that had much soul.

HBP-your parents are onto something.

[Rae Reich]

It would be interesting if one could guide a 3D printer instead of programming it. We love to get our hands in clay, but for those with limited mobility or strength (or studio space?) it could be like guided handbuilding, possibly a form of throwing. ???

[Bill Kielb]

I think it has a place for sure. I took a picture of a relatively full moon the other night - a blue moon (actually 4:00 am this morning). A moderately rare occurrence here, this one was a bit unique. Anyway my video capture adapter was not working on the telescope so I resorted to pointing my fairly new android phone at the sky, zooming in fully and snapping a picture. Wow an amazing picture for a phone and now I can share it with my workmates. Mostly nerdy engineer types - great folks. Now the relevant part, the phone (for the moon) uses a bit of AI to search for a similar view and overlays and blends a past photo and the one being shot. Suffice to say a bit disappointing when I found this out.

That picture would have been great had anyone snapped it, tripod or not. Maybe folks would say it has no soul - and I think they would be right on some level.

So folks who like clay generally like the tactile, crafts person artistic experience along with mastering all the knowledge that goes with the process of creating a ceramic object. Ceramic printing probably will not satisfy this in as much as a desire to program and machine. To me it has a place, not directly to replace the existing ceramic arts. Instead it sort of resides in the same place as mimeographs, copiers, one to many, many to many …… yet scripted cursive writing done well is an amazing skill, very different than the things designed to perfectly emulate.

Folks who carve jade have shown the human machine can be extremely precise …… and creative. The sewing professionals that created the first space suits for the Apollo moon program as well as hand threaded the first computer cores for the rocket to me prove humans can innovate and be very precise.

Printing ceramic art? Different skill set, definitely a place for it but hand made generally has a whole different value to other humans.

Oh, here is that moonshot from last evening / early this morning - I must say, it’s not bad for a phone. Now that you know how I got it, you are probably in agreement  - it looks nice.

 

Edited August 22 by Bill Kielb

[Denice]

It is a nice shot.  but it doesn't give you that wow factor when you realize how it was configured.   I still miss my Cannon and my son developing and printing them for me.  He made me some great prints from photos he took of my work.   My son is a techno geek  so he left the stone age printing behind and creates on a 3D printer.   Denice

[Pres]

As much as I love the digital cameras, the old film cameras had a lot more soul. We used to have to understand depth of field vs f stops, and a whole lot of other things. However, when I take shots now they are auto bracketed with my settings, and of 3-5 shots I pick the best one or two and throw the rest in the proverbial WinTrash! So much cheaper than film.

 

best,

Pres

[Clay17]

Imagine the person that found that the clay in their fire pit that had harden and then learned that it held water.  They then made a pinch pot to carry water. This world's first potter was probably criticized by those who thought gourds were more pleasing to hold water.

Then came the person that came up with the idea to use coils to make pots and was probably criticized for not making pinch pots.

Next came the one who invented the wheel and decided to throw some clay on it and made the first wheel thrown pot. Boy did he get heck from the pinch pot and coil maker. SACRILEGE THEY SCREAMED!

Of course there was the potter that used gas instead of wood to fire their ware. "Sorry Sir, Wood Is the Only Way to Properly Fire Pots!" Today there are potters that criticize other potters that use an electric kiln.

Recently at a show, a potter criticized me for using an electric wheel instead of a kick wheel. (They bought a wheel thrown serving platter from me that had one of my  original 3D created designs impressed on it. Instant Karma.)

You know the ribs you use? The rubber ones we all like to use were designed on 3D software. Do you know why they are called ribs? They were originally ribs from an animal, most likely cows.

Lets not talk about how the ^10 people feel about ^6 people and how they feel about ^04 people.

Or how about the potter that uses slip molds instead of making one off pots? Isn't he still a potter doing creative work?

There will always be those around that will say that a new technique is lacking creativity. It's my opinion 3D printing is a new evolving art that one can embrace to enhance their work or complain that its not traditional. One can either move ahead or get left behind.
 

[Bill Kielb]

1 hour ago, Clay17 said:

There will always be those around that will say that a new technique is lacking creativity. It's my opinion 3D printing is a new evolving art that one can embrace to enhance their work or complain that its not traditional. One can either move ahead or get left behind.

I sort of agree with it as a new technique and folks will gain typing and programming skills vs tactile throwing hand building skills. So I see it as a fairly different skill set where one does not fully replace the other really and hand crafted likely continues to have greater perceived value to other humans. I am not sure anyone is left behind, just maybe the gradual loss of folks with the manual skills if it ever becomes "The” preferred replacement to manually creating with clay. I do personally prefer handmade stuff as opposed to mass produced even though I find it extremely useful to be proficient with Solidworks for my technical work. Really little to do with clay skills I may have achieved though - just my opinion. They both can exist and learning one ought not really ever diminish or completely replace the other.

Now is it a better mousetrap (pinch pot vs Gourd) - not yet for clay I don’t believe.

Edited August 22 by Bill Kielb

[Min]

3d ceramic printing is in it's infancy, I think it's exciting to have another tool in the toolbox to play with. I feel  we are still in the pointy stick for a spear stage of it yet it has already evolved from clumsy to graceful. Double walled pot from Nervous Systems Development, cone 10 porcelain.

 

[Clay17]

50 minutes ago, Min said:

3d ceramic printing is in it's infancy

Printing the type of pot you show, I would agree. There was a rocket that was launched into space last year that was 85% 3D printed https://www.space.com/relativity-space-debut-launch-livestream-march-2023 The outer skin was 3D printed ceramic.

I  sell 3D printed pottery tools in 14 different counties. When I started 2 years ago there was hardly anyone around doing this (3 of us that I know of).  Since early this year, the amount of new business selling 3D pottery tools has exploded, there are 100s of people doing this now (I'm ok with this BTW) and 1000s of potters doing this for themselves (even better IMO). There are a good handful of websites that give away or sell STL (3D) files for printing pottery.

I'd say 3D for ceramics is in its teen years when it comes to pottery.

 

 

[Bill Kielb]

5 hours ago, Clay17 said:

The outer skin was 3D printed ceramic.

It was and is a thing in my engineering community. It is primarily 3d printed metal objects  which makes sense actually.  Kiln firing a ceramic skinned 110 ft rocket that has significant structural integrity might be out of reach at the moment. You Tube video here https://youtu.be/yb_cHMtl3g0?feature=shared  for those interested. Point taken though as 3d printed parts allow for designs that simply cannot or are difficult to machine. The machining, aerospace and aircraft industries have experienced significant growth in the use of 3d printing. Sort of similar to carbon fiber use.

Your involvement in 3d printing - hopefully this growth translates to the ceramic arts similarly for you.

 

Edited August 23 by Bill Kielb

[Magnolia Mud Research]

A long time ago I was in a ceramic ART class when another student came in with a "3d printer" that was converted to print several simple ceramic items.  The printer could print several simple pot forms, but the products were obviously NOT art;  because each print was always the exact same pot. 

Bill Kielb  made a picture with his cell-phone and can print that picture many times, but if he and taken 15 pictures of the moon each would have produces 15 different pictures, some interesting, some not; but each would met the "ART" requirement because each picture would be different in some way.  

The question is really are you a maker of pots, or an artist that makes art pots? 

One way to make the "3d printer" a ceramic tool is to make the printer make each pot slightly different.  

I liked the class studio wheel that had a small wobble when throwing bowls, just because it never made the same exact round shape of bowls; bowls that were interesting just because the wheel helped me in a way that no one else in the class could make and neither could I without the wobble.  

The real question is are we making pots for "walmart" or are we making pots that are art?  (a question given by the professor to students on the first day in the college ceramic art class). 

The tools we use to make our art are just tools; some artist will make bowls by hand, others will use a kick-wheel while others will use an electric wheel, some will cast the shape and then spend an hour carving a story on the surface of the bowl, others will use the casted item as a surface to paint with glazes; both are examples of art.   

When I was taking art photography we were taught how to make many different prints from the same negative, (something that  our cell-phone could not).  Each print was classified as ART because we were taught how to change the way the negative was printed  (without changing the negative).  

The challenge for the future is how can we use a new tool to make ceramic ART.    

LT
 

[Roberta12]

Of course a machine can be more precise than my hands.  Maybe it's the difference between making the dress yourself and buying off the rack as far as a handmade pot and a 3D printed pot.  I love that we have seen a resurgence in the hand crafts (pottery, weaving, gardening and preserving of foods, sewing, knitting, woodworking, etc. ) and something tells me there will always be an appreciation of people who are willing to do the "slow" work.  But 3D printing of pots and tools will certainly have its place in life.  And that is a skill that I do not have.  So I will appreciate those who do.

r.

[Bill Kielb]

On 8/21/2024 at 11:51 AM, Pres said:

Thinking about some of these posts, makes me wonder if we are losing some of our own hand dexterity when we short cut some tasks>

I am much more proficient at keyboarding than I was many years ago, but my handwriting skills probably have suffered a bit. For sure 3d sketches have taken a back seat to the mouse.

Edited August 24 by Bill Kielb

[Mark C.]

Its a tool just like a wheel or anything else. Only as good as the user manipulating the results as well as the limitations of said tool.

[Clay17]

2 hours ago, Mark C. said:

Its a tool just like a wheel or anything else. Only as good as the user manipulating the results as well as the limitations of said tool.

Exactly