Crooked Lawyer Potter Posted November 16, 2021 Report Share Posted November 16, 2021 Seeking ideas! My stoneware mug handles "pop off" at the top about 15% of the time. In other words, the top of the handle detaches from the mug with about a half inch of space between it and the mug while the bottom of the handle remains attached. This happens while going from wet to bone dry. I do not pull my handles. They are made by rolling the clay out into a thin log, then flattening it -- and then sometimes impressing it with a pattern. I then wet the cup at the 2 attachment locations , rub around to create some slip, scratch it up and attach at the top and bottom. The shape is very traditional -- sort of 1/2 of a heart. Typically, the mug is a little drier than the handle. I understand that this is not good but I am hoping that I can learn some trick to teach it a little "curve" memory so that it does not "straighten up" and detach. (Does any of this make sense?) Any thoughts will be much appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hulk Posted November 16, 2021 Report Share Posted November 16, 2021 Makes sense, yep. Of the several clays I've tried, one (just one) has a high incidence of handle breakage during drying, however, the breaks I was seeing were in the handle - in the curved part - not at the attachment. I'm not using that clay any longer, as I didn't particularly like how it throws, the feel, the handle thing, and typical dark red clay bubbling/fizzing (which can be managed, somewhat...). I mention this ^ just to point out that it is possible for a big shrinkage difference to result in breakage of the handle itself, vs. attachment break, where we'd expect breakage to be at the weakest point, eh? Any road, you might try "training" the curve a bit more, and going for a more secure attachment. Training: when you form your handle, do you then give it some time to set up afore trimming and attaching? My guess would be a yes. Try imparting a bit of curve before leaving the handle to firm up; I hang mine from the edge of the wheel's splash pan (a built in casting). If you're attaching at the top first, then imparting the finished curve afore making the bottom attachment (that's what I'm doing!), perhaps you've found that a smooth and deliberate approach - without fussing and re-doing - works best. Aye. There is an opportunity to train that handle some whilst imparting that final curve whilst avoiding the dreaded over fuss - dampen the handle, stroke the interior portion whilst smoothly and deliberately curving. Once firmly attached, dampening the handle and lightly stroking - adjusting the curve just a wee bit - may help train it a bit more. Attachment: my handles are always damper than the vessel at attachment time, fwiw. I deleted the detailed description o' how I attach, heh. Instead, may I suggest you conduct some destructive testing at full dry (raw clay) and vitrified (glaze fired)? If the handle is pulling a plug of clay that includes the interior surface, that's a "win*"; if the handle pulls a big divot out of wall, leaving the interior surface intact, that's not bad - that interior surface is strengthened by the glaze layer, after all. If the handle doesn't pull away a divot from the wall, or a partial divot, that's likely a bad'n. *although you might be throwing a bit too thin in that case? Light/thin is also more prone to breakage... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldlady Posted November 16, 2021 Report Share Posted November 16, 2021 once you have attached the handle, let the two pieces even out their moisture content inside a plastic grocery bag or any other covering. leave it for at least 24 hours, more is better. i just cut the handles off the grocery bag and set it over the mug like a tent. lets in a little air but keeps moisture in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elaine clapper Posted November 18, 2021 Report Share Posted November 18, 2021 Like Old Lady I try to give the two pieces time to acclaimate to each other in the amount of moisture. I pull my handles, let them set up a little by hanging them on the edge of a table until they can hold a shape. After the mug is firm enough to not warp yet not release from the bat, I attach my handle with the mug still on the bat. Then I put a second bat on the top of the mug and flip the sandwich over. I cover the upside down bat and mug with a sheet over night. Drying upside down lets gravity encourage the half heart shape of the handle. Usually the mug releases from the bat in the morning and I trim the bottom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babs Posted November 18, 2021 Report Share Posted November 18, 2021 After making the handles, hang them over a curve and spray with water whilst you prepare your mug. Think you might need to join when mug and handle are more similar in moisture content.There have been previous postings on this. Marrying the handle to the pot with scoring and magic water ...your actual handle may break instead of the handle pulling off.... Some golk used to wax the joins after fixinghandles but covering and equalizing the moisture is the way to go. Will try to find previous posts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crooked Lawyer Potter Posted November 18, 2021 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2021 "Wax the joins"! Interesting idea. I assume you mean with wax resist -- and that it prevents or slows down the drying process? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Posted November 18, 2021 Report Share Posted November 18, 2021 Once the handles are attached do as above and cover or tent with plastic to allow the two clay parts to NORMALIZE. Allow the pieces to stay in this state as they dry.... for me a couple of days. After this time one may remove the plastic for finished drying. It seems to be a PITA but dang.. how much time and effort are you putting into your wares and crafts just to let it go bad thru impatience ? have not had a handle separate from the cup since starting this process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Min Posted November 19, 2021 Report Share Posted November 19, 2021 On 11/16/2021 at 9:23 AM, Crooked Lawyer Potter said: I then wet the cup at the 2 attachment locations , rub around to create some slip, scratch it up and attach at the top and bottom. The shape is very traditional -- sort of 1/2 of a heart. Typically, the mug is a little drier than the handle. If the top of the mug is drier than the bottom when you attach the handle then rather than just wet the cup at the 2 attachment spots try dipping the cup upside down into some water about 10 or 15 minutes before you put the handle on. Just a quick dip, hold it upside down for a few seconds so the drips come off then flip it right side up and let the moisture soak into the clay. Also, exaggerate the curve you want in your handles while they are setting up a little, over bend the curve so when the clay memory kicks in while drying they won't straighten out as much. +1 for getting the drying to even out by covering with plastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark C. Posted November 19, 2021 Report Share Posted November 19, 2021 The better idea is not to let the top get to dry and if it does wet it and cover it to even out before putting on handles. If a handle comes off with hot coffe then even a crooked lawyer is at fault-could be ahuge settlement against you. Read the above posts from everyone and than your handles will stay on.No law suits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babs Posted November 19, 2021 Report Share Posted November 19, 2021 4 hours ago, Crooked Lawyer Potter said: "Wax the joins"! Interesting idea. I assume you mean with wax resist -- and that it prevents or slows down the drying process? Be caŕeful if any moisture retained i n that area when rest of pot dry the hadle can blow off in firing. I used this on really hot days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pres Posted November 19, 2021 Report Share Posted November 19, 2021 @Crooked Lawyer Potter: After throwing the pieces, turn them over as soon as the rims become cheese hard(just before leather hard). Do your trimming as soon as possible, cover the pots with plastic. Make your handles with the coil but thicker coils, then use a slap against the table the length of the handle down on the table so that it stretches the coil lengthwise. Rolling the coils aligns the clay particles perpendicular to the coil, where pulling aligns along the length which is better alignment. Slamming the handle on the particles more aligned with the length of the coil. Do your decoration or such and then lay the handle sideways to shape on a bat. Make several. Join the handles to the pot with magic water when the handles and the pots are nearly the same state of dampness. Cover the pieces for a day to dry slowly together. best, Pres Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crooked Lawyer Potter Posted November 29, 2021 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2021 I think that the most helpful hint has turned out to be to curve the handle and let it learn that position for a little while before attaching. Much better now. A related question -- What effect, if any, do you think there is to NOT wiring off right after throwing. Do you think this has any effect on whether the rim warps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babs Posted November 29, 2021 Report Share Posted November 29, 2021 Depends what your bats are made of. Warped rims...rims thinner tan pot? Have to give illusion of thin fine lip.. illusion delusion and real.. Uneven drying Manhandled on attaching precious handles:-)))))) Sorry, couldn't help myself. Post pics of rims warped. I tend to get pots onto rims asap . And cover to keep drying uniformly. After attaching handles, or trimming bowls I dry them rim on rim, i.e.stack them 1 on 1. Some folk put a chuck in mugs when attaching handles. Lot on this in another post relatively recently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babs Posted November 30, 2021 Report Share Posted November 30, 2021 13 hours ago, Crooked Lawyer Potter said: I think that the most helpful hint has turned out to be to curve the handle and let it learn that position for a little while before attaching. Much better now. A related question -- What effect, if any, do you think there is to NOT wiring off right after throwing. Do you think this has any effect on whether the rim warps? Put it out as new post with a different title as folk will miss it here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crooked Lawyer Potter Posted November 30, 2021 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2021 In re my rim warping problems -- I had posted earlier that I tried to solve by inserting a plastic dixie cup into the mug while it dries but that this caused additional problems because the mug shrank onto the cup and could not be removed without sometimes breaking the rim. Some helpful soul suggested I needed to use a more "funnel like" shape. I didnt really pay attention to this excellent suggestion right away but have now come to understand how helpful it is. I bought some cheap plastic kitchen funnels at the dollar store, cut off the long stem, and use them instead of the dixie cups. The funnel sits lightly on top of the rim and does not get stuck but still provides enough resistance that the rim stays round. Many thanks to you all for your help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callie Beller Diesel Posted November 30, 2021 Report Share Posted November 30, 2021 I wouldn’t leave the Dixie cup in while it’s drying. If you use the cup as a support while you’re applying the handle, that can eliminate warping from you pushing the cup out of shape. Just remove it when you’re done working with it and leave it to set up. It can also help to cut the top end of the handle so the attachment is curved, like the pot. If you’re leaving that cut end flat, chances are you’re pushing the pot into the handle instead of the handle into the pot, and that will distort the rim, and create a flat spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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