How to make a pizza or baking stone?

[nancylee]

Hi all,

I was just about to order an expensive baking stone for bread/cookies/pizza when I realized (DUH!!) that they are clay!! So I should be able to make one, right? 

I have a couple of questions:

- What kind of clay??? I have low fire red, Laguna 55 cone 6 whitish, Laguna 66 cone 6 handbuilding clay, a cone 10 woodfire clay and I think I have a cone 10 B Mix with grog.

-  I'm still not good at making wide flat things, so can I use my roller to roll out clay and then cut it to the desired shape? 

- If my clays aren't good, where would I get an appropriate clay and what kind?

Thank you in advance! 

Nancy

- 

[neilestrick]

A pizza stone is the same as a kiln shelf. While it is ceramic, it's not your typical clay body. It can handle thermal shock much better than a clay slab would. Chances are if you made it out of a regular clay body, it would crack when you placed the pizza on the hot slab. Flameware clay wold be the only type I wold trust, but you can't just buy it. Nor can you just buy the mix that kiln shelves are made from. You would have to mix your own, which wouldn't save you all that much money and still probably wouldn't perform as well. Either buy a pizza stone or a kiln shelf. I use a CoreLite kiln shelf, and it works very well. On the grill the open core structure keeps the slab from getting too hot, and it works very well in the oven, too. Get a new shelf, do not use a kiln shelf that has been used in a kiln already.

[Denice]

I bought a pizza/bread baking stone for my son several years ago,   I found it in a closeout of outdoor grill accessories.   This would be a good time of the year to buy one,   my son's wife decided to go gluten free so I stuck it in  a closet.  I need to make a loaf of bread maybe I should give it a try, it can be used in a oven or on the grill.    Denice

[Sorcery]

I'm starting to believe "pizza stones" where invented as a gimmick to sell more kiln shelves.

Alas. Maybe they should start making them in different colors!

Sorce

[neilestrick]

I cracked 3 'pizza stones' on my grill before switching to the CoreLite shelf, which has lasted a couple of years so far, with almost weekly use.

[nancylee]

10 hours ago, neilestrick said:

A pizza stone is the same as a kiln shelf. While it is ceramic, it's not your typical clay body. It can handle thermal shock much better than a clay slab would. Chances are if you made it out of a regular clay body, it would crack when you placed the pizza on the hot slab. Flameware clay wold be the only type I wold trust, but you can't just buy it. Nor can you just buy the mix that kiln shelves are made from. You would have to mix your own, which wouldn't save you all that much money and still probably wouldn't perform as well. Either buy a pizza stone or a kiln shelf. I use a CoreLite kiln shelf, and it works very well. On the grill the open core structure keeps the slab from getting too hot, and it works very well in the oven, too. Get a new shelf, do not use a kiln shelf that has been used in a kiln already.

Thank you, Neil. I had NO idea of all of that!!

Nancy

[terrim8]

looks like I have to find a Canadian store that sells core-lite kiln shelves

Anyone recommend a store to email?

[neilestrick]

The smallest shelf I could find locally was 15" diameter, which was a couple inches too big for my grill. But you can cut them very easily with a $4 masonry disc on a circular saw.

[Denice]

The shelf I bought is made for outdoor grill use,  If I want to use it in my oven I will have to cut it in half.   It looks like a core-lite shelf but the box  said it could only be fired up to 800 degrees.  I only paid fifteen dollars,   I can cut it in half with my new tile saw,  found a 10 in Goldblatt tile saw including the blade for $430 at a tile store.   It was 800-1000 dollars every where else,  I don't know why the regular price was so much less at Floor and  Decor.   Denice

[Benzine]

20 hours ago, neilestrick said:

I cracked 3 'pizza stones' on my grill before switching to the CoreLite shelf, which has lasted a couple of years so far, with almost weekly use.

That's a lot of pizza.  I thought  being that close to Chicago, all the pizza would have to be deep dish...

[LeeU]

On 9/14/2020 at 6:55 AM, nancylee said:

So I should be able to make one, right? 

I literally just had this conversation two days ago, when I made this beauty on my (worth-every-penny) Pampered Chef pizza stone. People don't seem to like it when I explain that no, I really can't just make them one (the stone, not the pizza).  Oh-for those who might be curious, it's a gluten-free crust of cassava & almond flours, enriched with the oil sun dried tomatoes are kept in; the topping is a true pure Italian sauce, fresh real mozzarella, fresh basil leaves & some of the sun dried tomatoes. It was delicious! 

[nancylee]

On 9/16/2020 at 11:04 PM, LeeU said:

I literally just had this conversation two days ago, when I made this beauty on my (worth-every-penny) Pampered Chef pizza stone. People don't seem to like it when I explain that no, I really can't just make them one (the stone, not the pizza).  Oh-for those who might be curious, it's a gluten-free crust of cassava & almond flours, enriched with the oil sun dried tomatoes are kept in; the topping is a true pure Italian sauce, fresh real mozzarella, fresh basil leaves & some of the sun dried tomatoes. It was delicious! 

That looks great!!! Thanks!!

[greekmama]

Can you underglaze to decorate the pizza stone with a food-safe underglaze?  I'd like to make one special for my daughter.

Andrea

[Dick White]

No such thing as a food-safe underglaze. Underglaze is concentrated color that is used under a regular glaze. The pizza stone must be unglazed straight solid ceramic.

[Denice]

I forgot about the large grill/pizza stone I have stored,  thank you for the reminder.  I am cutting off a piece of tile backer board with weekend with a tile saw,  I will dig out that stone and have it cut in half so I can fit it in my oven.  I am getting ready to make a mural,  so I am having the backer board cut to size.  I use Allure backer board it is thin, stiff,  rock hard and light weight but it is very hard to cut.  Denice

[greekmama]

On 12/3/2021 at 9:41 AM, Dick White said:

No such thing as a food-safe underglaze. Underglaze is concentrated color that is used under a regular glaze. The pizza stone must be unglazed straight solid ceramic.

Can I use low fire glaze on stoneware and still be food safe?

 

[Dick White]

I'm not an expert on every possible variety of pizza stones, but a quick review of the usual shopping channels reveals that most are are unglazed plain ceramic. A few tout themselves as having some "non-stick high temperature ceramic coating" to make them heat faster and wash easily. What that coating is, nobody knows; a proprietary trade secret. A consideration if you wanted to use a glaze on the pizza stone is whether it would be durable enough to withstand constant use of the roller pizza cutter, or would such a glaze quickly shatter under the physical abuse. Ceramic oven casseroles are glazed, but the occasional scoop with a serving spoon is not the same as the sharp pizza roller. Just my opinion.

[neilestrick]

I wouldn't apply anything to the surface of a pizza stone. There's too much risk of it flaking off at some point, either from utensils or the repeated rapid heating and cooling.

[Bill Kielb]

12 hours ago, greekmama said:

Can I use low fire glaze on stoneware and still be food safe?

Low fire glazes have been tested durable, as durable as mid and high fire glazes, so to answer your question, yes low fire glazes can be food safe. They are generally marked accordingly and can be as durable as higher fire glazes. Manufactures often high fire their shapes to maturity first, weed out any defects and final glaze fire the successful pieces with low fire glaze saving on energy, materials and reject rates. The discussion above is about glazing pizza stones however, which I believe the consensus is ……… it’s not suggested.

[SmokerX]

Sorry if this post is a little late. People saying "you cant make kiln shelfs" "you cant make refractory clay bodies" "you cant make pizza stones" "you cant make fire bricks". I think that is entirely wrong. I have home made fire bricks and kiln shelfs. It did save me a few bucks.  The Cheapest easiest way to turn your oven into a pizza or bread oven is unglazed quarry tiles. Purchased pizza stones will crack and are not magic. Although quarry tiles clay bodies will survive less thermal shock. Tiles are cheap. However, good luck finding them with the usual big box home improvement stores discontinuing carrying them.

Im not sure what the rules here are on linking, but the fire clay with good thermal shock properties I've found and have experience with is 20%talc, 25% tennessee ball clay, 55% mullite,(Cone 10) recipe courtesy of Barbara Zaveruha.The keywords string "In the Studio: Make Your Own Kiln Setters" will take you there.

Ive worked with industrial pizza ovens and the inside of the oven is lined with clay panels like kiln shelfs. The material looks like its the above recipe in color and has thermal shock resistant. As far as glazes. Go with unglazed. When working with a industrial pizza oven, you start by firing your oven hot. Then, when the stones are hot, take a wet rag that is saturated with a salt water solution and wipe your stones down. This salt glazes the stones and prevents sticking for the day. At the end of the day you clean the stones with a wire brush and mop the crud off with more brine solution while the stones are hot after wire brushing. The water in the brine solution steams off immediately, So I think it offers no thermal shock to the ceramic body.  Also Raw flour goes on your peel to slide the dough off into the oven. Between the ceramic and the pizza theres a layer of salt and then raw flour, preventing a dough from really contacting or sticking the stone.

Ive attempted to add ground leaves and styrofoam to create porosity in this clay body mix to create insulated fire bricks. But I think a solid clay body would work fine for an oven stone. I also think rice hulls would be a more appropriate burn off material.

Also I think, as far as pizza stones, You're looking for thermal mass and thermal retention. A piece of plate steel gives thermal mass and thermal retention and why a caste iron pan works for pan pizza. I think that's what we're looking for for a good "upskirt". Meaning a nicely cooked dough underneath the pizza. I know, running a industrial pizza oven. the first few pizza's are good but not quite right, until the stones heat soak and develop their thermal mass for the day. So I think a plate steel in your oven would get you alot closer than nothing and would heat soak faster than a pizza stone. Considering, realistically, as home hobbyists, we're running only these first ran pizzas or breads in such a, usually,  low quantity.

[Hulk]

Pizza!

[Min]

4 hours ago, SmokerX said:

Im not sure what the rules here are on linking, but the fire clay with good thermal shock properties I've found and have experience with is 20%talc, 25% tennessee ball clay, 55% mullite,(Cone 10) recipe courtesy of Barbara Zaveruha.The keywords string "In the Studio: Make Your Own Kiln Setters" will take you there.

It's fine posting a link. It's here if anyone needs it, from the July/August 2017 PMI. It is behind a paywall but limited number of articles can be read for free. Recipe from Barbara Zaveruha within an article on making and using the setters from Glynnis Lessing.

 

[neilestrick]

1 hour ago, SmokerX said:

So I think a plate steel in your oven would get you alot closer than nothing and would heat soak faster than a pizza stone.

I agree. Pizza stones take forever to heat up in the oven. In the warmer months I make pizza on my grill. The problem there is that the stone gets too hot since it's blasted by the burners underneath and will burn the crust, so I stack two kiln shelves with a few pieces of broken shelf as spacers between them. The bottom one gets blasted, the one the pizza goes on gets good and hot, but not too hot, and heats pretty quickly. With this method I can turn the grill all the way up, which gets to 600F or more. The hotter the better IMO when making pizza. During the cold months or if it's rainy, I'll make pizza in the kitchen oven. I don't like to use pizza stones or kiln shelves in there because it takes forever to heat them through. Instead I use a pair of heavy gauge aluminum baking sheets, one upside down for the pizza to sit on, the other on the shelf directly above, slightly offset to trap some heat right above the pizza. The aluminum takes in the heat so well that they're ready to go just a few minutes after the oven gets to temp.