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Corbels

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We are building a new kitchen with an island and it will have a concrete table top. I was wanting to sculpt a couple of ceramic corbels that would partially support the top. Rough dimensions would be 17" tall 12" deep and about 8" wide. These will be hand built with sculpted faces. I was wanting to use a Standard Ceramic terracotta sculpture Clay and I'm not sure what clay would be the best. I use cone 6 clay normally and for this project it could be a low fire clay. I'm not sure how a structural corbel would mount or even if it would be wise idea to make it a structural component. Maybe a using it as decorative component would be best? 

 I have seen Marcia's Wood jig and she is my inspiration to give this a try. If anyone has some input about Clay type, mounting or structural considerations it would be greatly appreciated.

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I third it. I just spent a few hours looking for an illustration that demonstrates mounting corbels from an article I wrote in the NCECA Journal for the St. Louis Conference in the 80s. DIdn't find it but have been going through old old memorabilia including a letter from Gerry Williams of Studio Potter accepting our oil burner submission in 1974.

ANyway, back to the question, the ceramic corbels used in skyscrapers were more structural. EVen so, they were mounted by being bolted through the wall. if you make corbels, keep them light weight and use granite and marble mortar. Score the back really well and deep to grab the mortar.

 

Marcia

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I vote with the rest, far easier to have a structural member covered by a decorative component.

 

 

Talk to the folks at SC as they will really be able to pinpoint the clay you want to use for your specific needs. Great folks there.

 

best,

Pres

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yes, yes, yes, cover the weight bearing stuff with a beautiful face.  concrete is  H E A V Y!   and from the dimensions given, you are hanging a very great weight WAY far from it's support.  cantilevering concrete is a special situation.  i would contact the masonry foundation, masonry builders association or whatever it is called in OHIO.  ask for structural advice and explain just what you want to do. (SORRY mug, i read min.  thanks, callie.)

 

we all want to hear your good advice for years to come, not read about the day you were crushed under 6,000,000 pounds of concrete.

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I object!!!  Motion sustained.... ty Judge

 

 

new kitchen with an island and it will have a concrete table top.

Island projects over the bottom cabinet 11-12" and is made of concrete. Needs structural supports, much like granite or marble tops would. Concrete tops are a specialty item and the contractor has already told you it needed support- would guess he/she discussed prices of their usual corbels. Would further guess that you decided to make your own.

Nerd

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yes, yes, yes, cover the weight bearing stuff with a beautiful face. concrete is H E A V Y! and from the dimensions given, you are hanging a very great weight WAY far from it's support. cantilevering concrete is a special situation. i would contact the masonry foundation, masonry builders association or whatever it is called in canada. ask for structural advice and explain just what you want to do.

 

we all want to hear your good advice for years to come, not read about the day you were crushed under 6,000,000 pounds of concrete.

Ohio isn't in Canada. But contacting your municipality regarding building code is a good plan. Start with whoever issues building permits, and they can usually direct you from there.

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When i make corbels i generally hdesign them to be   mortared in, but I also place cross supports in the back with holes so that a hanging wire or cable  can be installed, or they can be  hung onto bolts.
Even if  they are to be mortared in ,it is advantageous to have them supported while the mortar sets in.
If you do not want to work that into the back of the corbel you can figure out clever ways to introduce ,then cover  bolt or large screw holes via the face.
i have made corbels as large as 2 by 4 feet. with anything large and heavy i want to have a mechanical as well as a mortar method of suspension and support.
With concrete it is unlikely you would depend on the corbels entirely to bear the weight of the concrete, but they certainly do add something to the support of an overhang. 

 

S.Stephenson

Revival Arts Studio/Revival Tileworks

http://www.revivaltileworks.com

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If you are installing these ceramic corbels directly on wood you probably should have a hook or nail on the wood that catches the corbel.    Wood will shrink and pull away from the mortar,  one day you will here a crash. it's your corbel laying in a pile on the kitchen floor.  Denice

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Definitely decorative for your corbels...

You could install T-bar or angle 90 degree supports for the counter top and cover them with your corbels.

When you design the island, keep in mind your corbel design, then design the framing of the island to accept the mounting plan for the corbels.

Generally, the finish material or the counter, whether it be concrete or granite, is supported by a 3/4" plywood deck. The concrete deck can be formed with a recess which would hide the plywood. Your steel supports would then be fastened to the plywood bottom and through the island's vertical wall to the framing. You can design the corbels with holes for fastening to the plywood bottom and the framing components of the island walls.

 

(A year and a half ago I retired from my remodeling business in which I designed and built high-end kitchens and bathrooms)

The Kitchen pic is of my kitchen which I designed and built 20 years ago. The corbel pic shows wrought iron support for the cantilevered granite deck. You could make the supports from as noted above and cover them with your sculptures.

 

Good Luck,

JohnnyK

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post-17674-0-54085600-1467210638_thumb.jpg

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 I will make them a structural component... Ha Ha Ha 

 Just joking I will certainly use the overwhelming non-structural advice.

 

Nerd I have a cheesy modern Gargoyle designed corbel that fits our kitschy kitchen style.

 

 It's fantastic that most of us on the ceramics forum can make our own creations and yet we never seem to save much making it ourselves.

 

We live in the country and thankfully have no zoning or building codes to follow other than the national requirements. Hopefully it will remain that way. As it stands, our community has managed to fix any problems without needing someone in charge on a power trip.

 

Some really good mounting ideas, I will probably use bolts and score the back.

 

I use paper clay for mid-fire functional sculpture when it needs to be used. Stoneware paper clay sculptures on the large scale can be very challenging to work with.

 

I remember some lower fire sculptural terracotta clay's tested extremely well in a destructive test someone ran awhile back. Would any one recall the type of clay and what temperature it fired at. Choosing the right clay from the start would be my goal.

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a lot of architectural work is thicker than you would normally see for a pot..with walls maybe 3/4 - 1.5 inches thick/. generally i keep mine at 3/4 inch and i use a clay body with a lot of grog such as Laguna Red Sculpture, which is a cone 5 body which I fire anywhere from cone 02- cone 2 for bisque  to bring out red color and also for strength, and  then fire it to cone 04-03 for my glazes.  i forgot to check, are you press molding these or modeling them directly? it might be too  much grog if you are dong fine carving etc.. but the point is, this type is sturdy, won't shrink crack or warp much and will have good strength and durabiilty once installed,
if you are  use to working with a finer clay, many of the red terra cotta bodies have good strength at low temps, but i would go 04 or above..even 03 -01 , and some grog will help. and of course test..there is so much variation in commercial bodies

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These will be hand sculpted with moderate detail, Douglas Fey Pottery has some fantastic corbel designs that are on the same level of detail . I was thinking that these would be sculpted on the thicker side and was shocked to see you would go to 3/4" to 1 1/2" thick. The extra thickness would make things easier from a sculptors point of view. Thank you! When I work with paper clay things have to be thinner most of the time.

 

I was going to try Standards 547 clay, It sounds like a good choice, but I'll be up around Ravenna, Kent, Akron Ohio next and they have a Laguna clay supplier. I may try the East coast version of Red Sculpture clay or see if they carry something with a little less grog.

  Laguna Clay is looking a little more appealing as it is about half the price. Standard becomes a little more competitive when you buy by the ton.

If I fall in love with sculpting terracotta, Standards 547 is on my list.

 

I'm really looking forward to this and cant wait to try something new.

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