shawnhar Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 Struggling a bit with this one, my wife has given me an assignment to throw some in various heights. It is proving difficult to get the walls thin. Iv'e not tried to throw stuff so narrow I can't get my hand in, and when I collar it the walls become thick, but then I can't get my hand back in to do another pull. How would you guys do it? I did 2 each, 1#, 1.5 and 2#, but I was not able to get the 2# up over 7 inches. - And she want's them to be more narrow than this. able Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liambesaw Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 I just jam my hand in and pull up and in, space bedarned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GEP Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 To continue thinning/growing the wall after collaring, learn to use a throwing stick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitchmss Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 I make oil cruets which are thrown with 1.5#, have an interior opening of 3" and are about 10" tall. These are some of the hardest pots that I make out of my lineup, and this includes big big big pots. For me this is how I do it, in the most concise and edited directions I can provide. Center and open to desired width. First pull should bring majority of clay up, and should be about 70-80% of the finished height. I use JUST my finger tips, as I try to thin the bottom of the wall down to 3/8-1/4" thick in my first pull and any excess torque will goober it up. Plenty of H20 too. Cylinder should be slightly tapered in at the mouth too. I leave the top 3" of the cylinder "unthrown"; continue pull through to rim, just not thinning the top 3" of wall down. Leave that to collar later. Second pull, my hand (which are big-ish potter man hands) is crunched down to as narrow as possible. My hand will distort the "round" mouth of the pot, but unless you stretch the clay, it will go back to the same shape with a little compression/collar. Make sure to keep your hand/forearm perfectly plumb as if you are out of plumb you will torque the bottom of the pot. Again, use JUST the finger tips, and plenty of H20. Third, Use a sponge on a stick to remove water, and use rib on outside/sponge stick on inside to compress and scrape down bottom (everything except top 3" to be worked still) of cylinder. After this, for me, with a bottle shape I collar neck in, and use one finger inserted through hole to pull the remaining top 3" of wall to final thickness, and use rib to compress/scrape down wall. Narrow, thin walled cylinders are difficult, no doubt. Requires perfect form and execution. If you want to get the clay from the bottom up, you're going to have a thick wall on top of a thin base, and that takes practice to perform. Everytime you collar, you should make a little pull. If when collaring the wall is not maintaining a round shape (turns into wet rope) your wall is too thin/wet to easily collar in. Dont thin your walls too much, otherwise you cant collar to get narrower. I wish there was an easy answer to this, but really its just practice. Throwing sticks are good if you can use them well. For moving any serious amount of clay I find them to be too difficult to control; fine for making a teeny spout or bottle neck, but hard to pull a 10" cylinder with. Why not just extrude, or handbuild? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Kielb Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 I agree with @liambesaw, I can palm a basketball so at my knuckles my hand is wide. I just finished making porcelain tumblers for my wife and they need to be 71/2 “ - 9” tall 4” diameter using about 20oz of clay for a slightly less than 1/4” thickness all the way. Too thick = too heavy, any thinner and it fires and feels too thin to be sturdy. I always struggle with over expanding the cylinder with my hand but simply pull through it and collar in at the end. I do all my inside rib work prior to final collar in and from there shape with a tool. No more hand inside the cylinder at some point. I am not a particularly proficient thrower so defining exactly what size beforehand helps me avoid fiddling too much with throwing these things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callie Beller Diesel Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 A couple of years ago there was this thread. It's a bit long, but a couple of people from the forum (including Neil!) uploaded videos, which are nice for technique. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liambesaw Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 You should cut the 2lb one in half to see where you can pull more or where your clay is at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 2 pounds should definitely be taller than 7 inches if you've pulled it thin enough. Some things are just a matter of practice, practice, practice. I don't know that there's a specific method that's going to get you there with this project besides practice. Collaring and a throwing stick will definitely help some, but I think that just making a whole bunch of them is the true key. Tall, narrow forms are tough. I do a lot of oil bottles and tumblers, and I often make them too wide. And I have small hands (insert joke here). There's a minimum width that thrown pieces seem to want to be. Keep practicing. Also remember that they're going to shrink 10-12%, so they will be smaller than they are now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Kielb Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 often 15% for porcelain so often the thrown piece appears gargantuan! Takes some getting used to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyK Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 Extrude it... Each of these bud vases utilize tubes at 5", 7", and 8" at1.2" diameter. I can go to 2.5" diameter and as long as I want. The wall thickness is 1/4"on these which I think is a tad thick, so the next batch will have 1/8"-3/16" walls... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabby Posted January 16, 2019 Report Share Posted January 16, 2019 I kind of like Johnny's answer. (Still, I can't imagine something breakable tall and skinny in any house with kids or pets. I can't get away from images of rapid breakage). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Kielb Posted January 16, 2019 Report Share Posted January 16, 2019 Apprentice thrown stoneware tippy cups! I threw many mugs like this in the beginning and yes if heavy enough on the bottom refused to tip over! LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawnhar Posted January 16, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2019 Thanks for the feedback everyone! I started practicing last night, looks like it's gonna take a minute, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted January 16, 2019 Report Share Posted January 16, 2019 22 hours ago, Gabby said: I kind of like Johnny's answer. (Still, I can't imagine something breakable tall and skinny in any house with kids or pets. I can't get away from images of rapid breakage). We've got 3 dogs, 2 cats, and two boys. There are pots everywhere in our house, and we've only had 1 piece broken in 20 years, by a young cat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babs Posted January 16, 2019 Report Share Posted January 16, 2019 9 minutes ago, neilestrick said: We've got 3 dogs, 2 cats, and two boys. There are pots everywhere in our house, and we've only had 1 piece broken in 20 years, by a young cat. How high are yoyr surfaces Neil??? Mum's pots are not valuable here. Except. Large garden ones. Speaking of which a teenage boy. Revved his motor bike on lawn....no suitable comment...then slid his bike into newly placed LARGE urn witb newly planted passionfruit....did i notice??? Well a coupme of days later. Karma is a great thing. Now has two intrepid kuds of own to deal with... Only untippables hsre...one set of mugs adhered to new shelf...too thick glaze. One slack potter.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted January 16, 2019 Report Share Posted January 16, 2019 We have pots at every level, every surface. Some sitting on the floor by the fireplace. Most in reach of cats who like to climb when we're not looking, everything in reach of projectiles thrown by children. They've all been raised with the pots, so they're aware of them and careful with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liambesaw Posted January 16, 2019 Report Share Posted January 16, 2019 31 minutes ago, neilestrick said: We have pots at every level, every surface. Some sitting on the floor by the fireplace. Most in reach of cats who like to climb when we're not looking, everything in reach of projectiles thrown by children. They've all been raised with the pots, so they're aware of them and careful with them. Same, the kids love pottery, the dogs and cats maybe indifferent.... But indifferent enough not to mess with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabby Posted January 16, 2019 Report Share Posted January 16, 2019 1 hour ago, neilestrick said: We've got 3 dogs, 2 cats, and two boys. There are pots everywhere in our house, and we've only had 1 piece broken in 20 years, by a young cat. My large golden retriever has never broken anything either, other than my foot from crashing into me from behind. I have never had a cat. I too have many clay objects, but they are all at a height of 30" or more above the floor and none are tall and skinny. I am not taking chances. They are out of reach of my boys' strongly wagging tail. But people in this house have broken these things with elbows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rae Reich Posted January 18, 2019 Report Share Posted January 18, 2019 On 1/16/2019 at 2:41 PM, neilestrick said: We have pots at every level, every surface. Some sitting on the floor by the fireplace. Most in reach of cats who like to climb when we're not looking, everything in reach of projectiles thrown by children. They've all been raised with the pots, so they're aware of them and careful with them. Cats - don't piss them off. They know which things you love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldlady Posted January 21, 2019 Report Share Posted January 21, 2019 shawn, seriously, throwing tall and thin takes a base that will allow it. if you start with the sort of mound with sloping sides you will have a problem before you start to pull upward. mea said it best, start with a "hockey puck". whatever weight, straight sides downward. open it and establish the bottom and diameter. get your lifting finger under the bottom and make a groove. clean off your finger. THEN you will be lifting the clay that can become part of the wall. every time you pull up, pull inward as well so the pot is tapered along its height. when you are finished with each pull, hold that last revolution until the clay is running steadily through your fingers and flatten the top. just hold, do not force anything. last pull widen the taper so the pot is straight and perpendicular to the wheelhead. to do anything like this try using a mirror set up so you can see the profile at all times. it makes it so much easier to tell when you have messed up. corrections are easier when you can see what you are doing in real time, not later when you force your body into some crunched sideways angle to see the profile with your eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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