Kellykopp Posted December 28, 2015 Report Share Posted December 28, 2015 I am in the market for a new electric kiln. The one I have now is 30 years old and though in good shape I am afraid to take it to a mid-fire range. For a low bisque ( cone 014) it is doing well. I had all new wiring (yes copper) installed on a 50 amp breaker, but the electrician advised against a kiln that draws more than 42 amps when running. I would like to have something around 10 cu ft capacity, and would like to know how you feel about 2 inch versus 3 inch thick brick. I am looking for dependability, durability, ease of changing elements, and firing ease. I don't feel I would ever fire to cone 9 or 10, am looking at around cone 6-7 for my hottest firings. I would value any input you would have, as there are so very many to choose from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flowerdry Posted December 28, 2015 Report Share Posted December 28, 2015 There have been many discussions on this forum about kiln choices, 2" vs 3" bricks, etc. Many people, like me, seem to really like their L&L's! Do a search from the forum main page and you will find much useful reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy miller Posted December 28, 2015 Report Share Posted December 28, 2015 I'm on my 11th firing with a Skutt 1027, 3" brick. Easy to change elements, thermocouples and relays, tech support has been fantastic and I ordered KPM elements as I fire to cone 8 sometimes. I bought it because we use them at school and they are true work horses. It replaced a DaVinci LnL. Miss the internal firing space in my old DaVinci but the energy savings on the new kiln is a marked improvement. Also upgrading my 28 year old Cress this year with a Tucker ConeArt kiln. Have talked to Frank Tucker extensively and am impressed with what he doing. I also looked at Bailey, but chose the 8 cu. ft square kiln from Tucker. Good Luck! After replacing two large 30 year kilns I have to say I am impressed with what kiln builders have done to improve their products for studio potters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark C. Posted December 28, 2015 Report Share Posted December 28, 2015 I have had 3skutts kilns over 40 years If I ever get a new kiln again it's an L&L with 3 inch wall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Fireborn Posted December 28, 2015 Report Share Posted December 28, 2015 I am very happy with my L&L, but its nothing compared to the size your looking to get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pres Posted December 28, 2015 Report Share Posted December 28, 2015 I love my L&L, have been using it now for over 20 yrs, It is a J-23 with four rings. I usually fire 3 rings, but when in need of room for a full bisque to glaze fire the glaze with the 4th ring. Have replaced elements, switch blocks, and lids and bases. Last lid was thicker, love it because it allows slower cooling. I would also opt for the 3 inch bricks on a new L&L as again the cool down wold be slower. I often fire down when I have a load that I have the time to, this does allow a visible difference in crystal formation and depth of glaze. I will also be moving this to the Equipment strand for consistency. best, Pres Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kellykopp Posted December 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2015 thanks guys, you have really given me some food for thought, have been shopping around a bit, but am still undecided. Seems L&L and Scutt are the 2 main attractions in the electric world. Would love some more opinions, as I value them all. Have been barrel firing with sigs with great success, but am looking to branch out as people are asking for "functional" work, and I can't wait to start making glazes again, so hence the new kiln. Thanks Pres, for moving me to where this question belongs, wasn't thinking too hard, was too excited about asking my fellow clay artists this question to pay attention to where it really belonged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatthewV Posted December 28, 2015 Report Share Posted December 28, 2015 ConeArt is a more expensive third option. If you find the lid of a top loader to be too heavy it will be worthwhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glazenerd Posted December 28, 2015 Report Share Posted December 28, 2015 You will see pics of my four Paragons in my gallery. I had one problem with one in five years and Paragon addressed it immediately. The shipping company decided to motor-cross the load and bounced the kiln so bad it broke the thermocouple. I use programmable controllers, APM elements, and Type S thermocouples: however most of what I do is high fire. I advise people to have a test kiln if budget allows. You can test your ideas without spending alot of money firing, or tying up a kiln if you are production firing. One of my favorites is the 1613-3: 1.75CF, 6400 watts, and simple programmable controller. It all depends upon need and use. The big issue to remember: if you do not know how to maintain or change elements: then by the brand your local supplier knows how to maintain for you. Glaze Nerd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GEP Posted December 28, 2015 Report Share Posted December 28, 2015 I have two L&Ls, and would happily buy them again. My reasons for preferring L&L over Skutt are: (1) the ceramic element holders (element replacement is a snap, and they really prolong the life of the interior bricks) (2) the three-zone controller. Even firings from top to bottom. Skutt only has one zone. They have Skutt kilns at the center where I used to teach, and "even firings" are not the norm there. I have 3 inch walls, but have never fired with 2 inch walls, so I can't offer a comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glazenerd Posted December 28, 2015 Report Share Posted December 28, 2015 GEP: You have bought up an issue I have long wondered about: do you see noticeable differences in uniformity having a three zone system? Edit: Do you think kiln size plays a role in that? My smaller kilns heat fairly uniform. My 6.5 and 16CF do have hot and cold spots which I know by cone placement. So do you think there is a size limit where they help? Glaze Nerd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GEP Posted December 28, 2015 Report Share Posted December 28, 2015 GEP: You have bought up an issue I have long wondered about: do you see noticeable differences in uniformity having a three zone system? Edit: Do you think kiln size plays a role in that? My smaller kilns heat fairly uniform. My 6.5 and 16CF do have hot and cold spots which I know by cone placement. So do you think there is a size limit where they help? Glaze Nerd My first kiln was 3.5 cu.ft. with a kiln sitter. Even in that small kiln, my firings were somewhat uneven. Top and bottom cooler than the middle. My current kilns are 7 cu.ft. and I get very even firings with the three zone controller. When comparing apples to apples, my 7 cu.ft. L&L with three zones fires much more evenly than a 7 cu.ft. Skutt with one thermocouple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bciskepottery Posted December 29, 2015 Report Share Posted December 29, 2015 I second GEP re: multiple zone controls. I fired kilns (L&L 7 and 10 cu.ft. with 3 zone control) for a community pottery center for a couple of years; we also had residents with kilns that were single zone. Watching them fill the kiln and place shelves for color, hot/cold, etc. convinced me a multi-zone was the way to go when I would buy a kiln. The kiln I bought is an L&L, 3 zone, 3 inch brick, E-Z fire, 6.7 cu.ft. Cost a bit more than a Skutt, but well worth the extra money -- it will be the only kiln I need. Totally satisfied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Fireborn Posted December 29, 2015 Report Share Posted December 29, 2015 My little 2.7CUFT L&L even has 2 TCs It just shows how much L&L values the even firings compared to other kilns. One would think a little kiln like mine would fire perfectly fine but I don't think it would if it didn't have the 2 TCs. When I start selling pottery and my kiln can't keep up I will be buying around a 6-7CUFT L&L with quad elements from Neil E.(he is on these forums and can answer any L&L questions you have about purchasing one). Probably one like this : http://hotkilns.com/e28s-3 as I value the width more than the height. I want to make large platters, but my kiln keeps me from doing it. Plus I dont want to bend over a 28inch deep kiln. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callie Beller Diesel Posted December 29, 2015 Report Share Posted December 29, 2015 The brand new kiln of my dreams is a cone art from Tucker's as well. (Sorry Neil!). With the Canadian dollar running as low as it is, it might tip the finances in your favour south of the border. Depending on freight. I just came into a used Cress though, so I will use what I have. It's my first kiln and I'm very excited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxden Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 I have used several major brand kilns over the years and find that each one fired fine to bisque and cone 6 for me. All the ones I used in a studio environment had bricks broken and segments of elements drooping, but they still fired fine. Personally I own two L&L kilns. Their element holders really seem to protect the bricks. One of mine was manufactured in 1974 and still looks great. Of course my newer one with the computer controller, 3 inch walls and three zone thermocouple is the one that I glaze mostly in because of the ability to better control and balance the firings. It does it for me. One thing, in all fairness, I am comparing other brands used in a studio environment to a personal kiln. I suspect if I owned another brand it would not be as beat as those in the studio since I try to be pretty careful loading and unloading shelves. I also avoid leaning on kiln walls which causes the thin portions of bricks to break. Nevertheless, I am a fan of L&L and would buy another if I were in the market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kellykopp Posted December 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 You guys are the best, I thank you for taking your valuable time away from your art to give me your opinions. I think I am going to have to talk to my electrician about upping my amps to my kiln area, luckily I have 100 available; just have 50 run to the area now. If you have more information I would still love to hear it, as I never considered the zone control option I am now leaning heavily toward it due to your input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayaldridge Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 I think you may have to upgrade your wiring and breaker, because L&L's 10 cubic foot kiln calls for an 80 amp breaker. One of the reasons I picked a smaller kiln (just under 4 cubic feet) is that it would run easily on my current kiln shed wiring. Also, bear in mind that if your home has 100 amp service, you should consider the current draw of other appliances that may be in use while you're firing. Our home in FL has 100 amp service, but when I installed power to our tiny cabin in upstate NY, I chose 200 amp service so I would have no issues with power in the studio I'm building up there. I'll be able to use my big 3 inch Olympic up there, (but I think I'll have to get a controller for it; I'm now officially spoiled.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kellykopp Posted December 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 The way I think I understood the electrician when he ran the 50 amp service to my kiln area as to he said I had 100 amps available on that breaker but at the time I only had him run the 50 to my kiln area to fire the kiln I have at hand now ( oh hindsight where were you then : ) Kiln area is in a detached garage. I will have him come out again and consult him about the total available electric service I have; good thought about considering other electric use as my house runs on geothermal and it does "use the juice" so to speak. He did mention the fact of having a three phase installed, but I balked at the price and digging up my yard again, but that will be taken into consideration. I am going to shop around next weekend at a kiln distributor and ask lots of questions......keep the questions coming my friends I am taking lots of notes on all of your suggestions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark C. Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 Before kiln buying you will need to know how many amps you have at kiln location That's the 1st thing to know before looking at kilns. If your breaker is a 50 amp the wire most likely is # 6 size Your wire size will dictate your breaker amps so a quick look at numbers on wire will get to the bottom of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 A 10 cubic kiln will need a 60 amp breaker or greater. A cone 8 model will pull 48 amps, requiring a 60 amp breaker. A cone 10 model will pull closer to 60 amps and need an 80 amp breaker. Even 7 cubic models will pull 48 amps and need a 60 amp breaker. If you have #6 wire, you can go up to 60 amps without changing the wire if the run is not too long. To go up to 80 amps you'll need larger wire. If you need more info on L&L, feel free to contact me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kellykopp Posted December 31, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 Before I ran/installed the kiln I have now (old Evenheat model 9 that had been modified to have a digital controller on it) I had an electrician that specialized in kilns come out, check everything, she said that when turned on the kiln was pulling 44 amps from a 30 amp breaker and to have a certified electrician come out and put in 6-2 copper wire and a 50 amp breaker, which I had done. Upon installing that, the electrician said I had 100 amps available from my house to the garage panel, but he said to be on the safe side if I ever "upgraded" to keep the pull at 80 amps to be on the safe side. That's when he mentioned to me the 3 phase option, too. I will most certainly be contacting him again Mark and Neil, and I thank you for your concern, since I don't need a studio I have worked so hard to put together to go up in flames. This is also why I always like to "see" a kiln before purchasing to make sure it is the size I am looking for, among other things like electric needs, venting, elements, etc. If I find one that is outside the parameters of electric I currently have (50 amp, 6-2 wire) I will be sure to have a talk with my electrician before any kind on purchase happens. So far I have taken notes concerning maintenance, electric, firing zones, elements, brick thickness, among other things. You guys have been great and I thank each and every one of you for your input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark C. Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 It sounds like you have a solid 100 amp sub panel in studio with a 50 amp breaker to your kiln outlet from studio sub panel It also sounds like it will be easy to pull a new wire in studio if you decide on a for amperage kiln ( more than 60 amps) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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