Can we talk about sustainability please?

[Batuu]

Hey everyone, 

This post is not about splitting hair, while at the same time a lot of hair make a whole hairstyle in the end. And I am only talking about functional ceramics!

In the past years I have seen many community studios, where I had been absolutely blown away by the use/waste of energy and materials. 

Teachers mostly stick to teaching wheel throwing lessons, further material lectures being a complete rarity. Nevertheless people are motivated to produce masses of products, never having heard about things like vitrification, abrasion, hygiene, glaze mistakes, etc. The usage of clay and water is outrageous, instead of letting the material work by itself things have to happen fast and the sound of the hot air gun can be constantly heard. 

In the end it is mostly those people who call their works sustainable, in the end even emphasising their recycling of clay. (Tbh - I think out of 50 ceramists I have met ONE who does not recycle her porcelain due to the lack of a good extruder. How can this even be sth. people want to point out?)

I am not talking about some single pieces people give to friends or keep for themselves. I am talking about a whole new movement that does not  seem to be interested the slightest in learning before/while making, but putting LOTS of effort into creating Instagram reels and corporate identities surrounding slow making and sustainability.

For sure I do not want to be a gatekeeper or ceramic boomer, I want ceramics to be accessible to everyone, but I am a little bit concerned  and turned off about the complete sell-off.

In the past I have heard sentiments like that and did not really bother yet, but I also think a lot more changed during the past few years.

At the same time I am aware that I cannot compare my own approach to the one of others. My boss fired a cup of mine after 3 months of full-time throwing. There was neither money nor space for waste and bad quality in the kiln, nor was it worth the energy that is being used in a firing.

Does anyone here have similar thoughts or do you think that in the big picture this does not really matter? Or should we go a bit back to also teach more about material matters?

 

Edited December 17, 2023 by Batuu

[Min]

Hi and welcome to the forum.

13 hours ago, Batuu said:

I had been absolutely blown away by the use/waste of energy and materials.

For sure it takes a heck of a lot of practice while learning to work with clay, who decides when a piece merits turning it from a recyclable lump of clay into something permanent that isn't readily recyclable? Is there value in a piece of functional work that with more experience a beginning potter could make better? I would say yes. Should the beginner be encouraged to only fire their best work? That's a difficult question to answer and I don't think there is a right or wrong answer here, it depends on the situation. I would argue for a child to have something permanent, regardless of the quality, it can lead to a lifelong enjoyment of ceramics and a feeling of pride. Should an adult with less than stellar skills fire their work? In a perfect world the instructor would have the student make multiple pots and follow this with a lesson in constructive criticism then with the students okay a culling of "lesser" pots encouraged. 

Are there lessons to be learned as we progress with our skills to be learned from looking back at early work? I think there are. I have made a lot of real clunkers while learning, it can take years to really see the flaws in design or workmanship. 

13 hours ago, Batuu said:

further material lectures being a complete rarity. Nevertheless people are motivated to produce masses of products, never having heard about things like vitrification, abrasion, hygiene, glaze mistakes, etc.

Perhaps this is a reflection of the studio environment. Are these classes set up as instructional classes with glaze theory etc or are they recreational classes? Hiring practice for the instructors set high enough?

13 hours ago, Batuu said:

I am not talking about some single pieces people give to friends or keep for themselves. I am talking about a whole new movement that does not  seem to be interested the slightest in learning before/while making, but putting LOTS of effort into creating Instagram reels and corporate identities surrounding slow making and sustainability.

This is a really good thought.  I don't spend much time on social media but for sure when I do go there it seems there are a lot of people working the system like you describe. Like I said though, I don't spend a lot of time looking, perhaps the question could be do makers of quality pots use social media and if so how heavily do they rely on it? @Callie Beller Diesel and @GEP, thoughts on this?

[akilpots]

From what i have seen in community studios in nyc and la most people trying the wheel for a single class or for their first session of classes tend to want to fire and keep much of the work they make. I think this is totally understandable from their point of view and the studios point of view. I do notice that as people take additional classes or become members that they become more discerning about what they push through the entire process. this is just from my point of view others may have differing opinions.  I have always felt like it's kind of a double edged sword...to get better at glazing you need pots to glaze so you simply cannot toss everything until you are a master thrower if you are paying for classes or a studio membership in a ceramics studio. maybe if you are in a university program its different.

personally i've had some teachers that talk about things like vitrification, glaze flaws, best studio practices and others who haven't. it really is kind of a mixed bag and sometimes very dependent on the students asking questions beyond the basics.

as for social media you are only getting a small glimpse into someone's life/practice best not to pass judgement on what you see there.

[Batuu]

Thank you  for the warm welcome!

 

Both of you are right and I have to be honest I could contradict myself in many of the points I made. I know very well, that experience and knowledge alone does not make a good piece. Here I could really start splitting the hair then, what is a good piece, what is quality and who decides that? An endless topic and very subjective.

 I am also not talking about one specific studio, but a similar concept I encountered in several studios in different cities in Germany and UK.  After participating in a throwing class people can autonomously exercise. Any other classes are voluntarily. This does not sound too bad. Often it is good to be left alone to get into the flow with throwing. But I also saw many people with horrible postures, as already mentioned the overuse of the hot air guns is totally normal to them. there were people who used the gun on a freshly thrown piece thinking they could trim it within one hour of working session. No one interferes. People make things in 2 hour sessions, stuff gets fired, they don't even come to pick it up. I really miss a little bit more of appreciation and awareness towards the material. But here we go again. Who am I to judge that? I was fed up with several rules at a certain point myself.

Concerning the vitrification, akilpots: I indeed got asked several times by some why their pots are leaking water, others even showing me moldy cups.

Did their "teacher" care about this? No, because they also did  not know. Because their teacher also didn't tell them and didn't know.

Sure this can happen, absolutely natural when you start to learn. I just wish people would not immediately start a business or even worse just throw around with terms (dishwasher safe, durable, sustainable, 'food safe' and making huge series of them. A lot of them often would not be able to differ between a fully melted and an under- or overfired glaze.

Often the people in charge of the kilns didn't go through any proper training themselves, people just trust them.

I am aware I come across a bit too strict here and I think we always need to look at the specific practice and studio to have real talk. But I also do not want to spill the concepts here or talk too bad about it.

Of course you are also right with the social media, I am active on IG myself and a lot of my income comes from there. And clearly not all new enthusiasts are mainly content creators, but please believe me:  there are some.

I think we can agree that there are many different ceramic scenes and niches, but why make many many things of something you claim to be apples, but they are actually bananas?

I guess it is called marketing.

 

 

 

[Babs]

Whew, covers a lot of ground!!!

Maybe a trip to where the clay is mined is where this line should start...then the clay miles:-))

[Bam2015]

As Babs said, you covered a lot of ground, but I appreciate that you highlighted this topic. I too have been concerned about sustainability in this medium and in the end realize that I can only be responsible for my own practices. I no longer belong to a community studio so I am not in a position to  influence others. 

I am interested to see this thread continue as I am interested in the input of others. 

[Batuu]

2 hours ago, Babs said:

Whew, covers a lot of ground!!!

Maybe a trip to where the clay is mined is where this line should start...then the clay miles:-))

Well, I indeed started with having to mix the clay in the bakery mixer after picking it up from the clay pit. These days I am very happy about the readymade clays ;-)

1 hour ago, Bam2015 said:

I too have been concerned about sustainability in this medium and in the end realize that I can only be responsible for my own practices. I no longer belong to a community studio so I am not in a position to  influence others. 

Yes, this is a good thought. I was just often in the situation to get asked and then I was in a bit of a dilemma.

 

Sorry if these are too many topics I one post, i guess my main problem is the talking about sustainability just because it is "clay" and then pursuing the mentioned practices.

I hope this is comprehensible.

[Bill Kielb]

34 minutes ago, Batuu said:

1 hour ago, Bam2015 said:

I too have been concerned about sustainability in this medium and in the end realize that I can only be responsible for my own practices. I no longer belong to a community studio so I am not in a position to  influence others. 

Yes, this is a good thought. I was just often in the situation to get asked and then I was in a bit of a dilemma.

I guess I would say one’s perception is affected by experience. Any studio I walk in ………any ……….. home or commercial I see kilns have been under insulated for so long that we have surely wasted mega watts of energy globally. Reduction firing, let’s generate more CO! Wood firing, not sure anyone can argue anything environmentally good about that. Glazes that waste natural resources, soda firing, mining products….. The list goes on with respect to sustainability and outright environmental damage. I had a colleague point out oil is renewable, just not in our scale of time. She is right, but not a reason to keep improving what we do.

I think the best one can do is encourage others, lead by example don’t let it get to you. Remember we are always learning so the things everyone thought were key yesterday may change a bit tomorrow.  My food pyramid flipped upside down I think. Why isn’t it mandatory to plant X number of trees every time one wood fires? Just kidding, it’s just a suggestion that I think might make sense rather than try and stop all wood firing.

[Babs]

I guess I was thinking along the lines, the only person you can change is yourself.

[Denice]

If these new potters had to help make the clay they are using they would learn to be conservative.   I made my own clay,  they came out with bagged clay but it was too expensive.   When I finally got to college everyone had to help make clay,  build kilns, unload kilns and clean the studio.   My first throwing class the professor told  us we were there to learn how to throw.   We could only fire three small pieces and they were for grading purposes.   He also to us not to sign our pots,  you want to save that for when you make good  work.   He told us to think about some of your first pots being found in archaelogical dig with your name on it.  Fired clay last forever.  is your pot is worthy of firing.   You had to be in advance throwing classes before you could accumulate much work.   I  decided to focus on hand building.  When I was a senior  the college was looking into bagged clay,  they gave a bag to each student and told them to give it a try.   I was given a bag of b-mix,  I told them it wouldn't work for hand building,  it didn't.   To me the bagged clay was a sign of the ceramic program sliding downhill,  it wouldn't  be the great program it once was.   This was in the hippie days and natural hippies were into  reuse,  no waste,   recycle,  make everything yourself and work hard.  I was glad I managed to graduate before it got worse.   Denice

[Russ]

6 hours ago, Bill Kielb said:

y isn’t it mandatory to plant X number of trees every time one wood fires? Just kidding, it’s just a suggestion that I think might make sense rather than try and stop all wood firing.

BOOOOO BOOOOOOOOO! Bad Bill! BAD.

[Babs]

I think there are lots of different reasons people go to pottery classes.

Today they use heat guns, I remember, time constraints and pots thrown onevweek could not be turned the next week so tgey were put infront of the kiln blasting away in the corner of an unvented studio, soun on the wheel infront of a 2 bar strip heater, put on top of the hot kiln SO that everyone finished the course with sthing to take home.

From there a couple a year would pursue ceramics seriously, go down the road of apprentice or whatever and adopt a system which best suits their needs.

Judging others easy to do, that's all.

I'll just away down the street and buy a coffee in my ceramic keep cup and feel religious.

[Mark C.]

(Can we talk about sustainability please)

Sure  lets talk ,I have made a living from clay for about 50 years give or take.I have had some time to consider it.

You talk about classes which really compared to say a toilet or tile manufacture are about 1/16 of a  drop in a bucket compared to the use of materials and cumbustion gas output of all the classes in. the world. I have strong feeling on keeping beginner pots-I think it should be, throw them back on the plaster table for a long spell  of time until one gains the skills but that's never going to happen as humans feel it's precious once made and want to keep the cracked dog bowl thats warped and 1 inch thick with crawed glaze.

I consider it part of an industrial process. Its hard on mother earth ,any way you want to feel good about it its a fact. The electric or gas kiln is not great for earth but for that matter either are humans on this scale of population we are at now. 

Pottery making in all but a commercail level is small time compared to the commercial ceramic world.

Is ceramics stainable ? Well are humans stainable on this planet? We all have thoughts on that point I'm sure.

Just for some prospective we have been at war most of our existance even though most of us  on this planet despise war we are currenty still at war on this planet . Still at war in 2023 is that sustainable ? as it seems its been going on as long as we could pick up a club, so one could say thats as sustainable as we humans are.

Mining materials and processing them and and shipping them and then making clay from them-its a ton of energy and its not yet a mug or a plate.Far from that.

I think of sustainibiliy as a loop and like say paper-trees =paper= recycle for more paper=growing more trees for more paper. Trees help the earth.It can be a loop and go on forever depending on the amout of paper we humans consume as the population grows.As you know at some point its no longer a loop as the use of paper gets to be more than we can recycle and grow.But for now its a loop

Ceramics is not even close to a loop

Now waste thats easy to curb. Clay is clay as long as its not fired. completely recycleable for the most part. The issue is those palstic bags that keep clay moist,all plastic is bad news ,real bad news. The cardboard boxes all can be boxed aagin recycled. One you fire its going to last close to forever so some thought shold be made about that. In teaching most do not consider that. Never had a teacher even talk about it in my days in collage.

Have I ever thought ceramics as a sustainable loop no as its not for me. 

All we can do is be more efficient with our processes in ceramics.

 

[Mark C.]

Speaking of sustainability

I have felt bad about my part in global warming for decades using so much fossil fuel (natural gas) as a full time potter.

For me as a Potter I try to offset this in other areas and we all can do some part as each of us has a part to play in this whether it’s simple recycling or an electric car or other small part.

Everything counts.

For me personally I have had a solar water preheater (copper solar water heater panels, two 4x8 panels on roof) feeding into my water heater since Jimmy Carter funded an incentive in 1980 and help me pay for them. They are still up and working today after43 years. I have moved them once and had to keep them serviced and replaced the 80-gallon solar tank once but it’s an active system.

My wife and I personally installed ourselves a 9.6 KW  ground mount solar electric panels in early 2020 as well as a 22.5 KW lithium backup battery system. Yes, I helped raise the price of raw lithium. We did 100% of all the install.

We use a very small amount of grid power and make the rest ourselves from the sun.

Do whatever you can as it all adds up.

Edited December 20, 2023 by Mark C.

[Hulk]

This topic resonates.
Found this article (thanks to C. Banks for the link to the article list), "Actions for a sustainable future: Jürgen Rödel" here for transcript:
Ceramic Tech Chat transcripts - The American Ceramic Society

...there's option to listen to the readings as well.