Oxide washes on top of glazes! Oh my!

[shawnhar]

37 minutes ago, Bill Kielb said:

@ATauer is the overglaze completely opaque? Maybe a test tile with black underglaze applied over the very white clay and wiped out or a wash of the underglaze applied just to darken the clay as necessary and then just glaze with the teal glaze. Usually the color of the clay affects the look of the final glaze. Just a thought you might experiment with.

This is what I would do, just hit the bisque with black underglaze as if it were a wash.

[ATauer]

41 minutes ago, Bill Kielb said:

@ATauer is the overglaze completely opaque? Maybe a test tile with black underglaze applied over the very white clay and wiped out or a wash of the underglaze applied just to darken the clay as necessary and then just glaze with the teal glaze. Usually the color of the clay affects the look of the final glaze. Just a thought you might experiment with.

I had actually put two washes of different underglaze colors under the glaze when I made the moon jar, and unfortunately they did not show through *at all*. The glaze is quite opaque.  I really wish it wasn’t!

[Pres]

If you are working with your own glazes, you may be able to adjust the opacifiers to make the glaze less opaque. Test tiles are the best way to come up with a glaze that allows washes under the glaze to show through. An alternative is to try spraying washes from different angles on the textured piece. This allows 4 different variants down from top, up from bottom, right to left, left to right. The idea is to  spray not at the surface but spray by the surface catching the surface with the edge of the spray.

 

best,

Pres

[Min]

14 hours ago, ATauer said:

Does anyone have any other ideas?

Use your cone 6 clay instead of the lowfire and make a coordinating glaze that compliments rather than exactly matches the lowfire one. A vitrified saucer for a lowfire pot.

Special or custom orders tend to come back and bite you. 

[shawnhar]

12 hours ago, Min said:

Special or custom orders tend to come back and bite you. 

I hate them. My wife and I have a running joke that I will divorce her if she takes another custom order.

[dhPotter]

Special or custom orders tend to come back and bite you. 

Very much agree with this statement. I now understand why y'all have said over and over to never take custom orders. It is a never-ending saga.

[Min]

2 hours ago, shawnhar said:

I hate them. My wife and I have a running joke that I will divorce her if she takes another custom order.

I used to tell people I would need their first born as a deposit. Now I just say no, I have enough kids. 

[ATauer]

On 6/28/2022 at 2:56 PM, Pres said:

If you are working with your own glazes, you may be able to adjust the opacifiers to make the glaze less opaque. Test tiles are the best way to come up with a glaze that allows washes under the glaze to show through. An alternative is to try spraying washes from different angles on the textured piece. This allows 4 different variants down from top, up from bottom, right to left, left to right. The idea is to  spray not at the surface but spray by the surface catching the surface with the edge of the spray.

 

best,

Pres

I expressed my extreme displeasure that this is a commercial glaze not one of my own that I make now. Therefore I cannot match it or alter it.

[ATauer]

On 6/28/2022 at 6:22 PM, Min said:

Use your cone 6 clay instead of the lowfire and make a coordinating glaze that compliments rather than exactly matches the lowfire one. A vitrified saucer for a lowfire pot.

Special or custom orders tend to come back and bite you. 

This is a particularly good friend, so I do not consider that it is biting me at all, I’m happy to make it for him. And I love commissions and wish I could get lots of them- with artistic control. Making a coordinating glaze would take up way more time and make much more work for me than simply firing a third time with a mason stain wash, my only question which no one has answered is whether it is possible to put it on and wipe off the excess without wiping off the base glaze, if I tried to do it in one glaze firing. If the texture were any different I’m sure I could figure something out with wax, but the way this is done I don’t think that would work, or at the very least it would take me endless hours of very carefully painting very thin lines of wax on a rather large pot and it also doesn’t seem efficient. I was simply hoping someone had had a similar experience and managed it in one step instead of two. It doesn’t seem like it though, so a third firing it is. If I did what you suggested, I would also have a 25 lb bag of cone 06 clay that I have no use for that I spent money on, at least this way a good portion of it gets used and I can probably come up with some additional things to make out of the rest of the bag to fire with it. I also would have a nearly full bottle of 06 glaze that would go to waste as well…really not an efficient use of what I have spent my money on, when I didn’t know that I was surprisingly soon be able to fire to cone 8 if I wanted on 3 kilns that I had no idea I would own and be able to have my own studio and be making my own glazes as soon as I was able. My expectations were that I would have to take classes and pay to fire elsewhere and work out of a 4ft x 2 ft space at home for years, I’m very lucky that things changed rapidly and I was able to turn full time professional much faster than anyone could have expected. But that doesn’t mean I’m not going to use up what I bought before. Besides, you haven’t seen this glaze, it would take way more time to make a complimentary glaze that to just do an extra firing, I really am rather surprised that you would think that was a better route. 

[ATauer]

On 6/28/2022 at 7:02 AM, shawnhar said:

This is what I would do, just hit the bisque with black underglaze as if it were a wash.

That won’t work, I’ve already stated that I tried doing that with the pot, the glaze is very opaque and nothing under it shows through.

[ATauer]

Hey, you guys can have a bad attitude about commissions all you want, but I love commissions, with always the caveat that I have artistic control and final say- this is out of the ordinary for me as I don’t make functional work, I am a sculptor, so I would be endlessly happy to get tons of sculptural commissions. I’ve been working on trying to make that a regular thing for me. I’m doing this functional commission plus a set of 4 mugs for him because he is my friend and he bought my first piece, paying me more than triple what I asked for it because he said I needed to charge more for my work. I absolutely do not ever make mugs, I have a firm ban against them, but I’m looking forward to working with my friend to make a set he’ll like, while getting to have a lot of fun with surface decoration. But those will be the only mugs I’ll ever make. Maybe commissions for potters is different than for sculptors, I hardly ever hear other sculptors complaining about getting commissions, most are overjoyed. We in fact frequently are competing for them. 

[Pres]

41 minutes ago, ATauer said:

I expressed my extreme displeasure that this is a commercial glaze not one of my own that I make now. Therefore I cannot match it or alter it.

My goof, I missed that in your original post.

 

best,

Pres

[Min]

10 hours ago, ATauer said:

I really am rather surprised that you would think that was a better route. 

From reading your first post in this thread my takeaway is you made a Moon Jar shaped vase from lowfire clay that "the bottom cracked and lost large pieces" that you glazed with lowfire commercial glaze.  Piece went on to be sold and the customer requested a saucer for it which you will make from a new bag of the same lowfire clay, then after glaze firing rub some black mason stain/frit into the texture, wipe down and refire. You will be firing the saucer(s) in "a very big kiln pretty much completely empty several times for this". Is this correct? 

Reason I thought making a cone 6 saucer was a viable choice was twofold, firstly to avoid needing to do a separate firing for the saucer(s) "I’ll be using a very big kiln pretty much completely empty several times for this." Secondly by using a vitrified low absorption cone 6 clay you negate the need for stilting the saucer and glazing it in entirety to ensure it won't weep. I'm assuming that since your customer is using the pot as a planter and is asking for a saucer for it they will be using it as a functional pot and this will be important. Yes, there is some work with getting a glaze match or complimentary glaze colour. This would be my plan B.

How much did the bag of lowfire clay cost? What is the cost of firing your kiln several times pretty much completely empty? Have you tried your lowfire glaze at cone 6 to see if it might work?

Quite honestly I would take the bag of clay and make the customer a new pot that doesn't have the damage the first one sustained during bisque firing. This would be my Plan A. I acknowledge that sculptural work can often have repairs made and those skilled in Kinsugi can enhance a broken pot but from my experience making pots for 30+ years selling a pot with damage such as you described might not be the best idea for what is essentially a functional pot. I can't recall ever seeing a Moon Jar with a saucer as it would distract from the profile of the piece. 

10 hours ago, ATauer said:

Hey, you guys can have a bad attitude about commissions all you want, but I love commissions, with always the caveat that I have artistic control and final say- this is out of the ordinary for me as I don’t make functional work, I am a sculptor, so I would be endlessly happy to get tons of sculptural commissions.

As far as I can tell everyone who made a comment about not caring to do custom work is making functional pots. Yes, there can be sculptural aspects to a Moon Jar shaped vase being used for a planter but it's still a functional pot. For the context of this discussion it is a valid comment. I actually started a separate thread here asking about taking on custom work, as someone making sculptural work your comments would expand the dialogue there if you care to post your thoughts there to add to the depth and breadth of the discussion.

10 hours ago, ATauer said:

my only question which no one has answered is whether it is possible to put it on and wipe off the excess without wiping off the base glaze,

Nobody has said yes to your question because nobody has had success with this method or hasn't tried it. I don't think it would work.

[PeterH]

On 6/28/2022 at 10:04 AM, ATauer said:

He wants the saucer to match, except he wants the teal color to be a little darker. Which, damn it, if I had been able to be making my own glazes then like I am now, would not be a problem, I could easily take a teal that I had made and make it a little darker and do a few test tiles. But since it is a commercial glaze, I can’t do that,

Would  adding an "inert" stain to the commercial glaze serve your purpose?

I suspect stains consisting of spinel pigments would be suitably inert, although obviously check the small-print.

For example Mason 6600 best black  6600 https://www.masoncolor.com/ceramic-stains/blacks/6600-best-black).
reference notes https://www.masoncolor.com/reference-guide

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>^^^^

                                  

Don't know how serious the advice "Use only as a body stain" is. For example
https://www.scarva.com/en/gb/Mason-Stains-By-Mason-Color-6600-Best-Black-Stain/m-2170.aspx
Our range of Mason colours with over 60 ceramic stains can be used in a wide variety of cost-effective applications. All stains in this revolutionary new colour system contain NO LEAD and can be used as glaze stains ...

 

[Babs]

Test tiles or pots. As Bill says, stain raw clay surface and wpe or rub back. Or bisque stain and wipe off.

Might be economical to get at least a full bisque load of pots , the $100 sale will cost you i n time and firing that saucer.

Poor teacher, cant please everyone all of the time.

[Bill Kielb]

On 6/30/2022 at 4:20 PM, ATauer said:

Maybe commissions for potters is different than for sculptors, I hardly ever hear other sculptors complaining about getting commissions, most are overjoyed.

I do know my fair share of sculptors, painters, potters that begin to despise commissions when they don’t meet expectations which often infringes on the artists creativity or for painters, make me look 20 years younger than that special anniversary blurry picture taken of me. So I think it can happen quite often as a career matures. I think likely similar to your hard and fast rule about not making mugs. For your reasons they don’t excite you. Next to Last thought, maybe a mix of glaze from the same manufacture in the same family so to speak gets you closer to the tonality you desire. Since it’s fully opaque, maybe thin with clear and then change the undertone of the clay. Think creatively and test. There is no guarantee the glazes will work together and no guarantee about durability but I think it has a fair chance of getting you closer.

wiping underglaze off freshly applied glaze
I would agree - wiping underglaze applied over freshly applied glaze seems challenging at best and tough to repeat, still you may find a way to do it. Please share your success, everyone seems to be trying to find a potential solution for you it would be nice to add another tool in the bag of tricks.

Last thought, I have airbrushed underglaze so if you are familiar, it can provide a way to highlight and shadow / shade an in-glaze solution without wiping.

Edited July 2, 2022 by Bill Kielb

[Babs]

Perhaps photos will help solve ,help this.

Just how much of the saucer will be visible?

A pedestal style may take less away from the moonjar.

Low fired saucer will weep onto whatever surface it is placed on. Avoid the Frenchpolished Grand piano.

[ATauer]

On 7/1/2022 at 12:16 AM, Min said:

From reading your first post in this thread my takeaway is you made a Moon Jar shaped vase from lowfire clay that "the bottom cracked and lost large pieces" that you glazed with lowfire commercial glaze.  Piece went on to be sold and the customer requested a saucer for it which you will make from a new bag of the same lowfire clay, then after glaze firing rub some black mason stain/frit into the texture, wipe down and refire. You will be firing the saucer(s) in "a very big kiln pretty much completely empty several times for this". Is this correct? 

Reason I thought making a cone 6 saucer was a viable choice was twofold, firstly to avoid needing to do a separate firing for the saucer(s) "I’ll be using a very big kiln pretty much completely empty several times for this." Secondly by using a vitrified low absorption cone 6 clay you negate the need for stilting the saucer and glazing it in entirety to ensure it won't weep. I'm assuming that since your customer is using the pot as a planter and is asking for a saucer for it they will be using it as a functional pot and this will be important. Yes, there is some work with getting a glaze match or complimentary glaze colour. This would be my plan B.

How much did the bag of lowfire clay cost? What is the cost of firing your kiln several times pretty much completely empty? Have you tried your lowfire glaze at cone 6 to see if it might work?

Quite honestly I would take the bag of clay and make the customer a new pot that doesn't have the damage the first one sustained during bisque firing. This would be my Plan A. I acknowledge that sculptural work can often have repairs made and those skilled in Kinsugi can enhance a broken pot but from my experience making pots for 30+ years selling a pot with damage such as you described might not be the best idea for what is essentially a functional pot. I can't recall ever seeing a Moon Jar with a saucer as it would distract from the profile of the piece. 

As far as I can tell everyone who made a comment about not caring to do custom work is making functional pots. Yes, there can be sculptural aspects to a Moon Jar shaped vase being used for a planter but it's still a functional pot. For the context of this discussion it is a valid comment. I actually started a separate thread here asking about taking on custom work, as someone making sculptural work your comments would expand the dialogue there if you care to post your thoughts there to add to the depth and breadth of the discussion.

Nobody has said yes to your question because nobody has had success with this method or hasn't tried it. I don't think it would work.

The Moon Jar has several chunks missing from the bottom, which the buyer knew completely ahead of time and doesn’t care, it actually provides just about the right amount of space for a planter with should have a hole in the bottom for water to come out so it should work very well. Also he is using it for his “pet” orchid, and orchids, as someone who used to collect them on a small scale, do not require a lot of water, so the saucer is really for him more for decoration and just to make sure even small amounts of dampness or water that flows through doesn’t damage his table. I realize more than he does that a Moon Jar with a saucer will look kind of funny to cermacists, but I believe if I make it to the right ratio it could still look good, you would just be missing the profile of the foot- that is part of why I am doing at least 3 versions of it- partly because they always say for commissioned work that you need to make three versions in case something happens and you won’t delay the order by having to redo it. I will be using a terra cotta flower pot saucer of the right size to help as a mold, then add the matching texture. 

I do appreciate why you think doing it at cone 6 would be better, and no I haven’t had the time to try the glaze at cone 6 and see how it looks, in general dark teals in my experience from cone 06 tend to get very very dark, pretty much black, when moved to cone 6 which is why I haven’t tried it. Technically I did not buy exactly the same clay, Continental Clay’s lowfire earthenware is just awful, I had to use it for two sessions of a class, right after the talc mine switch happened and unlike other companies they did not adjust their recipe, so instead of its former brilliant white it was a horribly ugly buff, we all had to put white slip or white glaze on pieces before we could glaze it usually because all the glazes available in that class just looked horrible with it. It also was terrible to use, very short, cracked easily, and was no fun at all- I convinced my mom to do one of the sessions with me and she continued after I left for another session where the teacher, who was very mad at CC for not alerting anyone to the change and they still advertise on their website that is a very bright white. So she switched to a cone 6 stoneware that my mom got to use for the first time something different and was blown away at how much better it was to work with. The other supplier in town, which I fell in love with their clays then made the horrifying discovery that 90% of their stonewares and even all their porcelains weren’t vitrified, most not even close to vitrified, but they had stocked up a lot of their very nice, so bright it is almost whiter than their porcelains earthenware so they could keep selling that while they worked on a talc free recipe that was still very white, and bought that, having heard a lot of good things, but not wanting to go back to lowfire temps as I am much happier with cone 6. I do have some cone 06 glazes that I had bought while in that one class, because they just didn’t have enough options I liked, and then very soon after stopped taking the class (well the teacher kicked me out, saying even though I had only been in the class for two 7 week sessions I was too advanced because I progressed super fast from doing a lot of self-learning, and that I should find classes with more opportunities, which I had already done when she sent me that email. I have taken a handful of classes but am almost entirely self-taught and also draw on my academic sculpture background from 20 years ago when I majored in metalcasting and mixed media sculpture). I plan to use up those lowfire glazes while doing raku, as in addition to actual raku glazes you can use any lowfire glazes and even sometimes use midfire or high fire glazes, although those require some special techniques and will look different as they won’t fully melt. 

I don’t remember how much the lowfire clay cost, it was pretty reasonable although as for all clays at MN Clay Co more than what Continental would sell. But compared to all the other clay I bought that I’m very limited in how I can use it because it isn’t close to vitrification and for the porcelain also isn’t translucent like they told me,  that one bag of earthenware is a drop in the bucket for me. I can try and fill up the kiln more when I fire it, fire the saucers slightly higher at cone 04 perhaps so they could go in with a big load of bisque…I also bisque at cone 08 for raku and alternative firing, but I worry the glaze won’t melt enough. Otherwise everything else always gets bisqued at cone 04 so I think that should work. The other thing I could do is fill the kiln with a lot, and I mean a lot, of glaze test tiles, as I have a huge amount of new glaze recipes I need to try. So I think either way would solve the issue of firing and almost empty kiln- which I was partly worried about less from wasting energy that I was the change in heatwork that can happen when you under or over fill your kiln. 

[ATauer]

On 7/1/2022 at 5:24 AM, PeterH said:

Would  adding an "inert" stain to the commercial glaze serve your purpose?

I suspect stains consisting of spinel pigments would be suitably inert, although obviously check the small-print.

For example Mason 6600 best black  6600 https://www.masoncolor.com/ceramic-stains/blacks/6600-best-black).
reference notes https://www.masoncolor.com/reference-guide

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>^^^^

                                  

Don't know how serious the advice "Use only as a body stain" is. For example
https://www.scarva.com/en/gb/Mason-Stains-By-Mason-Color-6600-Best-Black-Stain/m-2170.aspx
Our range of Mason colours with over 60 ceramic stains can be used in a wide variety of cost-effective applications. All stains in this revolutionary new colour system contain NO LEAD and can be used as glaze stains ...

 

The thing about only using as a body stain is something you can just ignore. I use stains a lot, hence planning on using the black stain to fill in the low texture and make the whole thing look darker, but I could definitely take a small portion of glaze and mix some black stain into it and see if it darkens it. No harm in that and I would learn something useful whether or not it works. I have never heard of anyone darkening a commercial glaze with stains, but with studio glaze recipes people will mix oxides and stains to achieve certain colors, so I think it has a chance! If it doesn’t work, or does but just doesn’t look that great, I know the three firing method will work so since no one else but you has come up with another way to try, I will just bite the bullet and fire three times, but fill up the kiln as much as possible with bisque or test tiles so it isn’t getting wasted, and possibly firing it a little bit hotter at cone 04 instead of 06 may even make the teal darker as well. I have seen teals get much darker, almost black, when going from 06 to 6, and while 06 to 04 isn’t too much of a change it is at least a little hotter. Thank you for the idea.

[ATauer]

12 hours ago, Babs said:

Perhaps photos will help solve ,help this.

Just how much of the saucer will be visible?

A pedestal style may take less away from the moonjar.

Low fired saucer will weep onto whatever surface it is placed on. Avoid the Frenchpolished Grand piano.

I’m in the hospital so I don’t have photos. And I really don’t see how photos would help, I’m not asking for suggestions on how to design the saucer, just trying to see if there were any ways I hadn’t thought of to avoid firing it three times. It will be completely glazed all over, so it should not weep onto anything, but he does know not to keep it on anything precious or if so to put a mat under it, like you would for terra cotta (which is also lowfired and I have many many commercial terra cotta pots with plants in the house and they do not weep ever. The only concern is potentially overfilling when watering and having the saucer spill over. I’m really not concerned that the saucer is going to take away from the Moon Jar. I will take some photos of it as just a Moon Jar for my portfolio before I send it off, and the way I’m picturing it in my head looks really nice- less recognizable as a Moon Jar but a very nice round planter with very interesting texture and a beautiful glaze even if it is commercial, with a low wide saucer that I think provides a nice accent for it, considering that very few people who are going to see his planter are going to be like “Hey, that was clearly a moon jar and now it looks like less of one because of the saucer!”. I think we sometimes forget that most people don’t know what any of those kinds of things are unless they are collectors. The saucer will be very visible, he wants it that way, and considering that it was my first moon jar I didn’t put as pronounced of a foot as I could have, plus some of that foot got broken in the kiln, hence it turning into a planter, so as it is just looking at it plain you don’t see a ton of foot as it is. In this situation a pedestal type style really wouldn’t work with it but I will keep that in mind should this ever happen to me again! I raku moon jars, which are not supposed to be functional but some people do want to use them as vases or planters, and I simply tell them it is not waterproof (although is very well waxed) but at least for planters you actually want some absorption and porosity, so someone may some day want a raku saucer to go with their raku moon jar and I will keep the pedestal idea in mind as an option.

[ATauer]

12 hours ago, Bill Kielb said:

I do know my fair share of sculptors, painters, potters that begin to despise commissions when they don’t meet expectations which often infringes on the artists creativity or for painters, make me look 20 years younger than that special anniversary blurry picture taken of me. So I think it can happen quite often as a career matures. I think likely similar to your hard and fast rule about not making mugs. For your reasons they don’t excite you. Next to Last thought, maybe a mix of glaze from the same manufacture in the same family so to speak gets you closer to the tonality you desire. Since it’s fully opaque, maybe thin with clear and then change the undertone of the clay. Think creatively and test. There is no guarantee the glazes will work together and no guarantee about durability but I think it has a fair chance of getting you closer.

wiping underglaze off freshly applied glaze
I would agree - wiping underglaze applied over freshly applied glaze seems challenging at best and tough to repeat, still you may find a way to do it. Please share your success, everyone seems to be trying to find a potential solution for you it would be nice to add another tool in the bag of tricks.

Last thought, I have airbrushed underglaze so if you are familiar, it can provide a way to highlight and shadow / shade an in-glaze solution without wiping.

I do airbrush, more and more actually, so I would very much be interested, just for future projects, how you highlight and shadow without wiping!

[Bill Kielb]

1 minute ago, ATauer said:

I do airbrush, more and more actually, so I would very much be interested, just for future projects, how you highlight and shadow without wiping!

Pretty much use your standard techniques for highlighting and shading, I never wiped my airbrush art.  Color mix can make things easier, mask techniques fairly common as well. It definitely takes practice and getting used to spraying underglaze but pretty easy to infill reliefs, wash, blend and highlight free hand.

Regular air brushing techniques are fine and depth is something that can be achieved. For newbies I used to start folks out with spraying using simple masks and several shades to build their skills and confidence.

30 minutes ago, ATauer said:

hence planning on using the black stain to fill in the low texture and make the whole thing look darker, but I could definitely take a small portion of glaze and mix some black stain into it and see if it darkens it.

Quite common to use stains as a colorant in many glazes BTW,  It might prove an easy (fairly inert) way to change the tone. To fill in low spots you may prefer underglaze to that of stain just because it will stay on the pot better than straight stain.

[ATauer]

25 minutes ago, Bill Kielb said:

Pretty much use your standard techniques for highlighting and shading, I never wiped my airbrush art.  Color mix can make things easier, mask techniques fairly common as well. It definitely takes practice and getting used to spraying underglaze but pretty easy to infill reliefs, wash, blend and highlight free hand.

Regular air brushing techniques are fine and depth is something that can be achieved. For newbies I used to start folks out with spraying using simple masks and several shades to build their skills and confidence.

Quite common to use stains as a colorant in many glazes BTW,  It might prove an easy (fairly inert) way to change the tone. To fill in low spots you may prefer underglaze to that of stain just because it will stay on the pot better than straight stain.

I’m moving away from using any commercial products, so while I still have some underglaze to finish up using, I make my own underglaze now from a recipe on glazy that comes from ‘70s Mason stain company via Vince Pitelka, it has three separate parts that are mixed together, and with the liquid underglaze brushing formula he developed (a mix of propylene glycol and CMC and water) for painting it is quite quite thick, like slow moving lava, but brushes on like a dream and is especially great for majolica. Plus it costs about 1/4 or 1/5 the cost of commercial underglaze, and you have basically an infinite palette from the stains, especially since if you vary the amount of stain you put in you get different colors, and they blend really great plus at least the Mason stain company has a ridiculous number of colors. And the CMC and propylene glycol help it stay on the pot really well. I haven’t tried airbrushing those yet, certainly they can be thinned with water I just don’t know if for some colors they would be thinned so much to fit through the nozzle that they wouldn’t provide enough coverage. But I imagine that is also an issue with regular underglazes…of which this recipe is really very close to how they make commercial underglazes, the dry part has frit and kaolin which is a big part of underglazes plus a lot of stain and CMC, and that is really what most underglazes are made of. The difference with Vince’s version is really the propylene glycol, which really makes a difference in having it paint on like butter, but is a lot thicker than how commercial underglazes are formulated. I guess I’ll just have to play around with it and see what colors work thinned out and which ones don’t, or if they need additional stain added to the thinned mixture….But I couldn’t be happier having this recipe for underglazes, saves me so much money, works super well, and most colors work at any cone without the changes in color you tend to see with other underglazes when used at different cones. 

[Bill Kielb]

We have used the recipe with success! On occasion we add a tiny bit of clay so when bisqued the decoration sinters and is pretty sturdy to work over. A few pics of some items we have created as Madison pottery a collaboration by Marcia and I. The first is a very simple airbrush application on a fully functional giant perfume bottle to get a specific color and specific ombré shading. This is definitely easy to airbrush. Marcia (My better half) submitted it to an international perfume bottle competition one year. I re-made the top btw to lose the drips before it went. The second is some hand painted UG with simple highlights. It was done with underglaze and bisqued to ensure everything stayed in place to completion. The third is a bowl done with a similar recipe as you described with a touch of clay added. Maybe they will spark some ideas for you.

Just to add, for the forum we each have written permission from each other to display in whole or part especially for educational use.

 

 

Edited July 2, 2022 by Bill Kielb

[Babs]

10 hours ago, ATauer said:

I’m in the hospital so I don’t have photos. And I really don’t see how photos would help, I’m not asking for suggestions on how to design the saucer, just trying to see if there were any ways I hadn’t thought of to avoid firing it three times. It will be completely glazed all over, so it should not weep onto anything, but he does know not to keep it on anything precious or if so to put a mat under it, like you would for terra cotta (which is also lowfired and I have many many commercial terra cotta pots with plants in the house and they do not weep ever. The only concern is potentially overfilling when watering and having the saucer spill over. I’m really not concerned that the saucer is going to take away from the Moon Jar. I will take some photos of it as just a Moon Jar for my portfolio before I send it off, and the way I’m picturing it in my head looks really nice- less recognizable as a Moon Jar but a very nice round planter with very interesting texture and a beautiful glaze even if it is commercial, with a low wide saucer that I think provides a nice accent for it, considering that very few people who are going to see his planter are going to be like “Hey, that was clearly a moon jar and now it looks like less of one because of the saucer!”. I think we sometimes forget that most people don’t know what any of those kinds of things are unless they are collectors. The saucer will be very visible,.

Right so a visible saucer does need the attention you are giving it.

Your glaze is very opaque and does not move?

Your glazed pot could be sintered, then stain aplied and wiped. If glazr is very opaque, underglazing won't work, you'll ned an onglaze technique.

Could try adding low temp frit to the onglaze stain to add to its flow and melt and thus it will pool