QotW: Do you take on custom work?

[Min]

@Pres will be back soon to post his QotW but in the meantime I'll throw one more out there that came up in a recent thread. Will you take on custom work? This could be for a customer, a friend or family member, either as a paid order or as a gift. Custom including either a design or glaze that isn't part of your current line of work.

I did at one time do some custom work, mostly for existing customers or if a family member wanted something I don't usually make. I found that custom work more often than not seemed to be stricken by one or more of Murphy's Laws; Murphy's First Law: Anything that can go wrong will go wrong. Murphy's Second Law: Nothing is as easy as it looks. Murphy's Third Law: Everything takes longer than you think it will. It was mostly Murphy's First Law that struck for me. 

Now I say no to custom work. If you have found a way to make custom work "work" for you how do you do it? Do you add a r&d charge? If you don't take on custom work do you just say no or try and explain why? 

 

[shawnhar]

I will put a dragonfly on a spoon rest, or make "one like that, but in this glaze". I will make a berry bowl in "that" color, with a saucer for drips, etc....

But real custom work is a no, even though, I end up doing it anyway, my wife thinks my abilities are greater than they actually are, so I end up making a garlic keeper or something I don't normally make. I always feel the customer is a little disappointed, at best.

 

[GEP]

My answer is no, after learning the hard way early on! And I've learned that it's best to not try to explain why. Because if someone doesn't take no the first time, they probably aren't going to understand the explanations. 

However, on very rare occasions, I have said yes to people who are long time customers who not only have bought a lot of my work, but I have spent enough time talking to them to know they understand what I'm doing. These requests are always made within parameters that make sense, because like I said these people understand what I'm doing. For me it makes sense to differentiate a select handful of customers into a VIP category, and to do my best to make them happy.

Here's an example. Some long time customers of mine got married, and asked me to adapt my elephant figurines into a "bride + groom" version for their cake topper. I was happy to do this!

[Mark C.]

I did custom work for about 35 years-it was alway a murphys law deal.all pots came out great except for custom order.Its just the nature of that custom. It takes to much time to many tries and never pays off.

I laid down the law of No about 15 years ago and it has been the best thing for me and for the business.

Custom work is for those who have yet to learn this lesson -thats also tru for me on small variations as Mea pointed out still happen now and then.

Edited June 30, 2022 by Mark C.

[shawnhar]

2 hours ago, GEP said:

e + groom" version for their cake topper. I was happy to do this!

OMG that is adorable

[Callie Beller Diesel]

Ha! Someone asking about this years ago was the reason I first started posting here, breaking my lurking habit.

I was working for a business that only did bespoke glass work, so I’d seen a model for how to make that successful. I knew when I started my own business to keep it within parameters I could manage from the start, and if I couldn’t, it’s better to say no. Custom work is not making a product, it’s offering your skills as a service, which is a different mindset. It’s a lot more about communication and some amateur psychology/understanding of client behaviour than it is about making the thing itself. You have to be able to keep an unknowledgeable person within the parameters you set without making them feel dumb or condescended to, and you have to make them feel like they’ve really received something special in the end.  You have to know when to say no, and you have to be really honest with yourself and with them about what you can deliver, and you have to not be afraid to reach out to communicate if something goes wrong. Ideally with solutions in hand. 

 I’d go nuts doing custom full time. As an occasional challenge though, I kind of like it. I FULLY understand anyone who doesn’t though, because it can be a lot of mental and sometimes emotional work. “It’s not something I have space for” can cover a lot of reasons without getting into unnecessary details. I agree with Mea that too much info given will just get you grouched at.

I have some things that are an automatic no. I will not make someone else’s work in whole or in part, I don’t do custom glaze colours, and I will not make any egg separators/yarn bowls/other gadgets that involve something coming out of a nose. Ew. I don’t take custom during Christmas unless ordered before the start of October, and I don’t do custom over the border. I don’t take custom if I’m overwhelmed in any way, or my mental health doesn’t allow me to. It’s a disservice to everyone involved.

If none of that is in play, we can talk. Usually people want some variation on something I already make: just that bowl with a different glaze in my lineup, or something along those lines. Most people come to me because they already like my style, and want a variation on the existing theme. But if they want something more, this is what I go with. 

Pricing:

I do make it clear from the start that the following is a design fee, but I don’t break down for them how I arrive at it. That part’s none of their business.

If changes or designs are more than just the same thing with a different glaze, I use the price on the original piece or something similar as a base. If the piece is a different size, I’ll  add a bit extra to another item I make that’s the same size. If there’s design or form changes, I add $10-20 per extra step/other add-on. I do pad this without shame or embarrassment. I recently had to double the price of a small  item because of the number of changes made, for instance. But if the changes are simple and don’t put me out work wise that much, I might only add a little. They are paying me a nuisance fee for breaking my schedule/work cycle that’s commensurate with how far out of my way I have to go. I possess a skill that most don’t, and I have other existing customers that need attention too. 

If the items need to be shipped, the client is told they’ll be responsible for that as well, and that it’s in addition to the cost of the item, and will be calculated when the item is ready to go. If they can pick up, they don’t have to worry about that part.

I take a 50% (including tax) non-refundable deposit to begin work, and the other half, plus any shipping, is due when the final piece is picked up, or approved via photo before shipping. 

Timeline:

I let them know the timeline I’d expect to have the piece done within, which is twice the amount of time it’ll take to get it right on the first shot. If I get it done early, everyone’s happy. If it screws up the first time, I can remake it with no stress.  As an extra level of hedging my ceramic bets, I make duplicates of the item. It never fails that if you only make one, it screws up, but f you make two, they both turn out. As a bonus, presenting the client with a choice of the 2 finished items gives a sense of abundance and extra care taken on them. Sometimes they purchase both, sometimes not. I don’t upsell it. If the original client doesn’t buy the duplicate, someone else does. This also helps with profitability.

 

During the initial consult, I make no effort whatsoever to minimize any costs or time constraints or potential nuisances to the customer, but I don’t make anything sound overly difficult either. I don’t make any assumptions about their budget or time, I only lay out pricing and what they can expect from the process. I try to give them an accurate idea of how it’s going to go, and let them make their choice from there. If they agree to the terms I set, I send a confirmation email with everything that was discussed, and I don’t begin work until they reply in the affirmative and pay the deposit. That way we both have something to refer to in the event of a disagreement. I also let people know things like shipping policies and anything else that might be relevant. If someone wants gift wrapping, or a card/note included with a gift, I throw that in upon request as an extra value thing. 

I have yet to have a custom client that was anything less than excited with their purchase. I like being able to do that for people, and I think taking your time with the initial setup is key to making that happen. 

 

 

[Mark C.]

I know a potter who only does custom mugs-thats the whole business-mugs with names on them

That would kill me _ can't image the shard pile of uncle Joe and happy dad mugs in his studio

Edited July 3, 2022 by Mark C.

[kswan]

I'm actually excited when someone asks me if I can make something for them! I'm not the main provider for our little household which means I can spend more time futzing than maybe others can. I'm not a full-time pro like many of you here. 

I am still learning what is too much for me but making something new helps get my creativity going.  I get a little bored making the same stuff all the time. Sometimes at art fairs, people pass by my booth and say, "Oh, it's so pretty!" but don't buy anything! So, it feels good to me when someone thinks my work is nice enough that they want to have the pieces they truly want. It's very rewarding when someone sends a photo of their new item in their home, and they say how much they're enjoying it. Mostly people ask me to make a variation on what I already make, as others of you do as well. I've said no to sculptural things I've no experience with, or designs that are basically copying something else. Other times I say yes and then curse myself endlessly. 

I also give a long time frame because as @Min pointed out, things always go wrong when you make something special. I might make more than the amount needed as well, especially if the extra would sell.  I don't charge extra for the drawings and designing, but I usually add on an extra charge for total extra work. I love drawing up sketches of potential pieces, it gets me excited and spurs other ideas for me. I flip back through my sketchbooks to revisit old ideas too. 

Making pottery feels like a compulsion I'm drawn to, so having a feedback loop of certain things that sell well or custom items people want is extremely gratifying. I'm pretty lucky to be doing this, I think! 

@Callie Beller Diesel gave a good tip a while back on using the website /app Trello to keep track of custom orders, and that has been fantastic for me.  

[Callie Beller Diesel]

Trello is a delight! No more lost post it notes! 10/10 recommend. 

The glass place that I worked at had a different breakdown for payment than what I use, and I only want to mention it here because the mindset behind it does matter.

They broke their payments into 3: the first was for the design consult itself. The design process usually involved at least 2 hours sit down with the client, plus preparing final drawings and any small fabrication samples that might be needed to help folks visualize things. For larger projects, or ones with extended timelines (months or years), the design fee was charged when final drawings were submitted, so that the designer was compensated in a timely fashion. Smaller projects that had a shorter delivery span would have this charged along with the second payment, which was to cover materials and production labour. The third payment was taken after the final install was declared perfect by the client. Yes, sometimes this involved more than one visit. They had parameters in place for price changes if there were more than a certain number of changes were made, or the scope or size of the project altered too drastically, but if everything went smoothly the third payment is your profit. If it doesn’t go smoothly, the third payment was to cover any cost overruns for materials or labour.

The overall model was to provide a luxury product and an artisanal service. Because it’s not common to be skilled at this, they could set their value, and did. 

I think the reason most people get frustrated with the custom work model is because they’re not putting enough emphasis in their own minds on how valuable this planning and designing skill really is, so they don’t charge nearly enough for it. Then they feel at the end like they’ve worked too hard for too little. Folks have to remember that clay work IS one of those 10,000-hours-worth-of-practice-to-develop skills, and most people don’t possess it. Even if you’re not clay famous, even if you “only” do clay work part time, if you didn’t go to college for it or don’t do it for your day job,  you’ve put in the work to learn it. You’ve earned the right to charge for your skills.

The next time you get tempted to write off your skills or undercharge for them, remember what it was like learning to centre. Or make a proper slab, for the hand builders. Look at where you are now, and how long it took you to get there. 

[Callie Beller Diesel]

I don’t usually name drop, but if anyone wants an idea of the types of projects I’m talking about, the company I was at was called Danziger Glass. It’s no longer operating under that name, as the owner has since passed, but I’ve gone through school (grade 2-BFA) with the head designer, Treena Primmer. She’s now the owner of Twist Desgins. 

There’s a few projects on both this old Houzz listing and in the Twist galleries that I helped with. I was initially hired to remake glass slump moulds for the fountain on the Houzz listing. One of the bowls had cracked and was leaking, so we needed to make replacements, and the original mould had been misplaced.

[ATauer]

I look at it a little differently maybe because I am a sculptor and really only make one-off unique pieces. So I actually would love to have tons of commissions. For sculpting, a lot of commissions are for organizations or companies, or as a public sculpture, so there is something of a formal process for which I get paid (most of the time, unless it is something I submitted a design for and was selected and they have a set stipend/award)  the same way I did as a scientific consultant- with a project fee, paid in thirds at different points. I require in the contract a great deal of artistic freedom and the final say when it comes to most design things. If they are coming to me, they like my style (which has a lot of variety, so is not necessarily something where you can point at something and say, oh obviously that’s a Tauer sculpture- has to do with my ADHD). The main run through my work is that they are what a great sculptor in the paperclay community that I belong to, who is a professor, called Tour de Force sculptures, even when they look nothing alike. And she has begged me to keep making Tour de Force sculptures, keep going larger even though I’m already doing 6 ft tall sculptures! And when I do something medium or smaller, she insists it has to be very technically difficult or look like it isn’t obeying the laws of physics, and her advice was the most flattering things anyone has ever said about my work so I’m happy to follow her advice.

So when I take custom or commission work, which I really love and honestly wished I got a ton more of, I’m often getting the chance to be paid for something very large that I would want to make anyway but am certain I’ll be paid for it instead of making it and hoping to find a buyer. I have some tiny exceptions, like I have a friend who was the first person to buy work from me professionally and paid me over 3 times what I asked for it with a note that I need to charge more for my work, and who has been extremely supportive of my career, more supportive than all my family members. So when he asked me if I could make him a set of 4 mugs, even though I have a hard and fast rule that I absolutely do not make mugs, and in general make just a tiny fraction of work that is in any way functional, and that is only because I particularly like certain shapes like pitchers and I can make really interesting sculptural vases. But I said yes to him because after all he’s done for me I am certainly not going to tell him I don’t make mugs so I won’t do that for him. I also know that with him he’ll give me all the time in the world, and while it takes rather some effort to pull out any ideas from him of what kind of mugs he wants, I know that I really will have total artistic freedom. And that he will pay me far more than they are worth. I also know I can have fun with them and do crazy surface decoration, so I look at it a little like play. But I wouldn’t do that for anyone else. I’m really trying to actually work harder at getting more commissions, but have no problem with other cases of saying no when it isn’t something that I will make or like some others have said copying someone else’s style. I otherwise think commissions are usually a way for me to grow as an artist, there are often some technically challenging things I have to figure out, and much like graphic design it is a good skill to build to learn how to take what the client thinks they want and instead give them what they really want, and to interpret their goals in a way that pleases them but is still your decision as an artist. 

I think if I was a potter, that I would still like and want custom work, as long as it followed certain rules, as it can grow your followers and collectors, and provide challenges and even learning to make new forms that then can go on to potentially become very popular sellers etc. I think it is entirely personal and no one has to justify why or why not they take commissions. From the posts I have read, people do it in quite a few different ways and for different reasons, I don’t think it should be a requirement for anyone. I personally with other sculptors I know tend to see them have attitudes similar to me, but we also have a fairly different business model than potters in a lot of ways, and our training often incorporates the idea of commissions so it is something we learn early and tend to expect and want as a part of our income stream. Potters tend to sell differently and also have a slimmer margin because they are putting out so much at a time, where as most sculptors have a lot lower production. I do subscribe, when possible (depending on the size and difficulty of something, it isn’t always possible) to make more than one in case something disastrous or even just minor but enough to ruin the work happens. Certainly for anything small I make multiples, although they may not be possible to be exactly the same. 

[shawnhar]

On 6/30/2022 at 3:27 PM, Callie Beller Diesel said:

As an extra level of hedging my ceramic bets, I make duplicates of the item. It never fails that if you only make one, it screws up, but f you make two, they both turn out. As a bonus, presenting the client with a choice of the 2 finished items gives a sense of abundance and extra care taken on them. Sometimes they purchase both, sometimes not. I don’t upsell it. If the original client doesn’t buy the duplicate, someone else does. This also helps with profitability.

This x1000

I learned this the hard way!

[shawnhar]

On 6/30/2022 at 6:16 PM, Mark C. said:

I know a potter who only does custom mugs-thats the whole business

That would kill me _ can't image the shard pile of uncle Joe and happy dad mugs in his studio

Yeah but... he only makes mugs!

That was my dream, to just make mugs, they are my favorite.

[JohnnyK]

A young friend of mine had seen one of my chip-n-dip bowls at a party and asked if I could make one for her to give as a gift...I made 2 since I was at it, and she wound up buying both of them. The most recent "custom" job was for one of my Forum friends who asked if I could replicate a tool that she had purchased 40 years ago but was worn out and was no longer available...I made 2 slightly different variations of the tool and was happy to hear that she was delighted with tools and was going to put them to work the day after receiving them. So, if it is within the realm of my capabilities, I am happy to do custom work. I've spent most of my life in various jobs and careers helping solve problems, and custom work in pottery and anything else is just an extension of the problem solving which I am good at!

[Pres]

Over the years, I have done custom work or taken on a commission that I might not have been suited for. Like @JohnnyKI find myself often intrigued by the solution to a problem. I once took a commission for 2000 vessels about twice a shot glass size. I have 6 months of lead time on the job and figured throw them off the hump. . . . not easily done as they had S cracks galore in the first load. Research lead to the use of a pancake opening up style that I still use today. I solved a problem, and learned a great lesson towards throwing off the hump.

I have over the years taken a job for the problem solving and turned down others because there was not challenge.

 

best,

Pres

[PeterH]

19 minutes ago, Pres said:

Research lead to the use of a pancake opening up style that I still use today. I solved a problem, and learned a great lesson towards throwing off the hump.

Thread on pancake opening ...

 

[Callie Beller Diesel]

5 hours ago, shawnhar said:

That was my dream, to just make mugs, they are my favorite.

I have more than one friend IRL who make a solid living only (or 95%) making mugs. Have a look at Blair and Sarah Dawes at Salty Sea Dog Designs, and Pixie and Shpriken (they don’t like using their given names) from Shprixieland Studios. Both couples make mugs with VERY different styles, and both will occasionally make additional items because they like doing it, or as special editions. They’ve both decided that in the wake of the pandemic, they’re taking their business models almost entirely online. Pixie and Shpriken do a few shows as working holidays/reasons to visit friends. They both spent a number of years doing the show circuit up here, and built up loyal followings/email lists, and their online overhead is MUCH lower than booth fees+travel costs+pet/house sitters. The more they really lean into what they like making, the faster they sell. 

[Pres]

@PeterH, don't bring back memories on me. . . my post in reply to that strand was in 2013!! Miss John B a lot here. 

the idea behind the pancake is to align the particles and by moving the side walls upwards the particles would stay aligned around the transition from floor to side wall. This organization cuts down on all sorts of cracking problems when throwing off the hump. I constantly use if for throwing chalice cups, but not so much for stems as stems have a center hole for air release when joined to the cup. Larger pots works really well for also, especially when throwing several serving bowls etc.

 

best,

Pres

[shawnhar]

On 7/3/2022 at 2:20 PM, Callie Beller Diesel said:

I have more than one friend IRL who make a solid living only (or 95%) making mugs. Have a look at Blair and Sarah Dawes at Salty Sea Dog Designs, and Pixie and Shpriken (they don’t like using their given names) from Shprixieland Studios. 

That is awesome thank you for the inspiration!

[Mark C.]

Sculpture,clay with names ,mugs or whatever as well as baby prints or the like all are custome one offs  and demand that.

My line of work is 35 forms in production so one offs get in the way. Now its time in life trim the 35 forms to much less and make less and do less in clay (or at least next year)

So for me its no custom work-I did it for 3-4 decades. Looking back it should have always been now. Would have made more $ and worked less except for friends and family. Thats my experience.

[Piedmont Pottery]

I have increased the amount of custom orders I take on since Covid, which has really hammered our usual gallery sales.  I get a deposit of 50% up front on all custom work unless it's a repeat customer or something so generic that it will sell in the gallery.  There does seem to be some truth that if one item in a kiln load has issues it will be the one custom piece in the load.  For this reason I will often make 2 or 3 of the item if it's generic and then let the customer choose among them.  Customers frequently buy more than one.  the ones they don't take go into the gallery.  For orders that look like they will be very time consuming  or ones that I just don't want to do, I will estimate what I would charge if it was just something I would make for the gallery, and then  triple that price for the quote.  If the client accepts the quote, then I will make it for them.