QotW: What are your beliefs about the time to reopen the economy and returning to Summer craft shows?

[nancylee]

14 hours ago, Roberta12 said:

One of our large events, a hot air balloon festival, was just cancelled.  It is held in August.  I had organized local  potters to make mugs for the pilots.  Looks like we can get a jump on 2021.   As my sourdough bread baking skills are being honed and I have more time for bird identification,  (maybe I will make another bird bath?)  I just keep wondering what the Holiday sales season will look like.   We will know when we get there, I guess!  

Roberta

I think as long as 80% of the country is still working or getting unemployment, sales will be up - at least online. My views on etsy are way up over last year and my sales skyrocketed over last year, but I wasn't selling much last year cause I was working again full time. People are home, can't go shopping, and are bored to tears. Thus, they shop. 

I think Christmas shopping will be good, but online. I think an online presence, even if only Instagram, is vital right now.

[Mark C.]

On 5/15/2020 at 9:01 AM, neilestrick said:

All of my shows through July and some into August have officially cancelled. I didn't even bother to apply to any September shows except one small local show. I've got one May show that rescheduled for August, and one October studio tour show that I was invited to be a part of up north. That's my show schedule for the year-2, maybe 3 shows instead of 15-20. Total bummer. On the plus side, I've gotten back about $1500 in booth fees, and I was finally able to apply for unemployment this week. 

Let us know IF any of those shows happen?

For me I doubt any show will happen in 2020 -those are shows are in Washington State, Nevada state and California .I think 2012 is up for grabs as well for gatherings-espacially the spring. The only hope I feel for shows is the states that disregard all science-and there seem to be plenty of those states.

Edited May 16, 2020 by Mark C.

[neilestrick]

1 minute ago, Mark C. said:

Let us know IF any of those shows happen?

For me I doubt any show will happen in 2020 -those are shows are in Washington State, Nevada state and California .I think 2012 is up for grabs as well for gatherings-espacially the spring. The only hope I feel for show is the states that disregard all science-and there seem to be plenty of those states.

The only one I'm somewhat confident about is the studio tour in October, only because it's later in the year and way up north in Wisconsin where there's not much virus action. I'm not holding my breath for any of them, though.

[liambesaw]

I finally was able to request a refund on my tulip festival booth fee.  They offered a spot on their "virtual market" without any description of what that would be, and if you refused to spend your money on that, you don't qualify for next year's show.  So whatever, money in the pocket now is worth much more than possible sales at next year's tulip festival.

[Mark C.]

I have heard about some show doing strange things like that. Now in Montana cancelled and offered to sell your small wares at 10% on their website-you do the shipping. They would keep your entry fee as a down payment on that endeavor -made zero sense (this was from a another potter that told me this story)

I despise shows that prey on us without respect-they need to give the booth or jury funds back or if you wish let us decide any other option like next years show as option two. Anything else is unethical and you should decide not to continue business with them in the future.

We as artists have the power to decide who we get to work with. since they are supported by us we get more say than you think. Sometimes it s letter to the board that wakes them up.

I have  more than once in my career done this letter or spoked directly with the main person (above the director) . I was instrumental in replacing a sour director at a show about 10 years ago-they fired her on last day as we had had enough and the board knew we would never return.She was hired from one of the Ann arbor shows and treated us like slaughtered pigs .Its in their best interest to do the right thing.

[Pres]

Power, is a drug for some, and when it really gets bad, they need to be replaced. We have had some of that in our area with Arts councils, and Guild people.

 

best,

Pres

[liambesaw]

Sorry, I meant if you don't participate in their online market, you forefeit your application and jury fee, so you will have to reapply for next year's show.  Their original plan was to just shoe you in for next year if you wanted.  Application and jury fee was not cheap though, so a little sad about that.

[oldlady]

liam!    JURY FEE?????   for a show where you would sell your work in your own booth?        the only jurying i have had was just to see if you are making your own work, no kits, no barbie doll clothes.

the Jury fee shows are usually just so you can brag about getting into some big deal museum show or something where they only allow you to sell a few pieces that have been juried in.

[Mark C.]

58 minutes ago, liambesaw said:

Sorry, I meant if you don't participate in their online market, you forefeit your application and jury fee, so you will have to reapply for next year's show.  Their original plan was to just shoe you in for next year if you wanted.  Application and jury fee was not cheap though, so a little sad about that.

Thats not a fair proposal -they are forcing you into something you never signed up for.Its pure greed as far as I am concerned-you signed up for the show -if it canceled you get the money back-if you want to participate in plan B (online market where they get a cut) thats anew deal not part of original contract.Its just like the description of that Montana show I referanced.

[liambesaw]

14 minutes ago, oldlady said:

liam!    JURY FEE?????   for a show where you would sell your work in your own booth?        the only jurying i have had was just to see if you are making your own work, no kits, no barbie doll clothes.

the Jury fee shows are usually just so you can brag about getting into some big deal museum show or something where they only allow you to sell a few pieces that have been juried in.

Yeah? Every show I've applied to has been juried, maybe it's different on the east coast?

I mean it makes sense, they can't just let everyone in, right?  Maybe it's just a quick "oh yeah that looks like he made it, and it is what he says it is", I don't know the specifics

[Mark C.]

All my shows are juried as well-some have jury fees some do not.Its the way it is everywhere.

[GEP]

All of my shows are juried, and they all involve a jury fee. Except for one that is very casual. 

I’ve gotten all but one of my booth fees returned, but none of my jury fees. For me a jury fee typically ranges from $25 to $50, so I’m not worried about it. The one show that didn’t refund is letting me apply the whole booth fee to their 2021 show, which I also think is fair. 

[liambesaw]

45 minutes ago, GEP said:

All of my shows are juried, and they all involve a jury fee. Except for one that is very casual. 

I’ve gotten all but one of my booth fees returned, but none of my jury fees. For me a jury fee typically ranges from $25 to $50, so I’m not worried about it. The one show that didn’t refund is letting me apply the whole booth fee to their 2021 show, which I also think is fair. 

I could have applied my fee to next year's show and kept my spot, but I'm not confident that they'll be around next year after losing out this year, which is why I requested a refund.  So far correspondence has been 2+ weeks with them so I'm not expecting a check until summer

[Pres]

I used to not do shows that did not jury in. It kept some of the carnival atmosphere away from the show. I did a few shows early that were non juried, and was stuck between someone selling knock off purses in one booth, and someone selling pipes imported from China. A few times of that and you realize to establish your sense of worth, or give in and sell crap. IMHO.

 

best,

Pres

[oldlady]

ok, i don't mean to say that nobody juries the work for quality before admitting somebody.    just that the fee is unusual.   maybe that is because  i have never done the really big shows.  and yes, sometimes the "jurying" is incompetent and i would up next to a double tent of dog collars.  once was enough there.

[GEP]

59 minutes ago, liambesaw said:

I could have applied my fee to next year's show and kept my spot, but I'm not confident that they'll be around next year after losing out this year, which is why I requested a refund.  So far correspondence has been 2+ weeks with them so I'm not expecting a check until summer

I think your instincts here are valid. Wait to see what happens to them first. 

[neilestrick]

I think it's great that these shows are attempting to do some sort of online event in lieu of a real show, because any advertising and opportunity to sell work is good. But it's ridiculous to think that the online sales would come anywhere close to what would be sold at the real show, so expecting people to pay a full booth fee to participate is ludicrous. If they want me to put my jury fee toward it that would be fine. But using my $300-400 booth fee is not going to happen. There's no way I'm going to sell $2000 in pots in their online sale. 

[Callie Beller Diesel]

Someone was asking on one of the Facebook groups the other day of vendors would be interested in paying a fee to upload your work to their site, they’d handle all the sales and you do the shipping and some of the promoting. 

A number of people pointed out he’d just described Etsy.

I pointed out that there was no value proposition if I was still doing all the work. I could just spend the money on some other form of advertising. 
 

He complimented me on my website and sent me an invite. Smh. 

[liambesaw]

8 minutes ago, neilestrick said:

I think it's great that these shows are attempting to do some sort of online event in lieu of a real show, because any advertising and opportunity to sell work is good. But it's ridiculous to think that the online sales would come anywhere close to what would be sold at the real show, so expecting people to pay a full booth fee to participate is ludicrous. If they want me to put my jury fee toward it that would be fine. But using my $300-400 booth fee is not going to happen. There's no way I'm going to sell $2000 in pots in their online sale. 

It wasn't the full booth fee, but let's face it, the online market of a tulip festival is going to bring in a couple of pity buys from the organizers and no one else is gonna show up to buy.  Established folks likely have an online presence, and those who don't, good luck in marketing your festival online.  

[Mark C.]

On 5/16/2020 at 3:19 PM, liambesaw said:

I could have applied my fee to next year's show and kept my spot, but I'm not confident that they'll be around next year after losing out this year, which is why I requested a refund.  So far correspondence has been 2+ weeks with them so I'm not expecting a check until summer

This show has been around for a long long time now

[Roberta12]

23 hours ago, oldlady said:

ok, i don't mean to say that nobody juries the work for quality before admitting somebody.    just that the fee is unusual.   maybe that is because  i have never done the really big shows.  and yes, sometimes the "jurying" is incompetent and i would up next to a double tent of dog collars.  once was enough there.

Lots of shows have jury fees. Big and small.  It takes time to go through applications, photos, etc.  And it might be a small or large fee.  Having helped organize some things, I know it is a lot of work and there are costs involved.  As well as time.  Big amounts of time.  I don't begrudge the jury, the fee.  

[neilestrick]

1 hour ago, Roberta12 said:

Lots of shows have jury fees. Big and small.  It takes time to go through applications, photos, etc.  And it might be a small or large fee.  Having helped organize some things, I know it is a lot of work and there are costs involved.  As well as time.  Big amounts of time.  I don't begrudge the jury, the fee.  

Some of the larger shows charge a $35 jury fee, and get over 1,000 entries. It does not cost $35,000+ to jury a show, especially when using online systems like ZAPP, that require very little labor, and when you're an established show that doesn't have to advertise beyond ZAPP to get applications. So that money is either extra profit for the show organizer, or it's subsidizing the booth fees. If I get into the show, the $35 was worth it. If I don't get in, it was a ripoff! I think a lot of shows use jury fees as a way to boost their profits since there are limits to what they can charge for a booth fee. I've seen jury fees as high as $45, which I refuse to pay. The show is either greedy or poorly organized if they need to charge that much. Some years I spend $1000 just on jury fees, which I think is ridiculous considering I only end up doing half of those shows. But to get into 20 shows I have to apply to 30-40. Jury fees have gradually crept up over the last decade. It used to be that $25 was the high end. Now $25-30 is average.

[Mark C.]

Jury fees are a mixed bag for sure. After retiring from a large show that I had done for 25 years twice a year they asked if I would jury the show (ceramics)-no pay -a Zapp show

over 500 entries under 1000. Remember. clay and jewelry are the big categories

I passed for other resons than no-pay-I have many potter friends and I did not want to alienate any of them.

My fellow potter said yes to that same request at another Wyoming Zapp  show . He was only doing the ceramic arts part -it took him  most of two days -he said no next time.

Jury work is long and tedious for these large shows can have many many thousands of appliacants -jury fees can be big business.

Our local show I'm on the board of- (100 artists) we do not charge a jury fee.

[Callie Beller Diesel]

The big commercial shows here almost never have a jury fee, but they also don’t usually ask people outside the organization to jury, either. It’s all done in-house. The only time you see application fees are in gallery shows, where they do ask for outside help. Mind you, door fees for shoppers are also almost universal now, as it’s considered a way to keep tire kickers out. Usually it’s only a couple of dollars, they’re good all weekend, and organizers use it to keep track of the number of attendees they get. 

[liambesaw]

23 minutes ago, Callie Beller Diesel said:

The big commercial shows here almost never have a jury fee, but they also don’t usually ask people outside the organization to jury, either. It’s all done in-house. The only time you see application fees are in gallery shows, where they do ask for outside help. Mind you, door fees for shoppers are also almost universal now, as it’s considered a way to keep tire kickers out. Usually it’s only a couple of dollars, they’re good all weekend, and organizers use it to keep track of the number of attendees they get. 

Wow that's interesting!  I've never paid a fee to enter a show, we have a few big ones that charge an entrance fee, and those booths are multiple thousands per weekend, I've never even pondered applying to one.  I had a neighbor who did woodworking and iron, and he did two years of a big one (home and garden show here in Seattle) and he said never again.  

I don't mind paying a jury fee, yeah it's kind of a cheap shot to artists, but I understand someone has to sift through all of it.

Just silly that they juried you in this year, so obviously you made the cut in some way, why not shoe you in for next year??  Since I have to apply for next year's show again, I'll be out basically 150 dollars between application and jury fees.