Stellaria Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 Has anyone seen these pretty brown pots from the Ukraine? https://www.etsy.com/listing/169100068/ceramic-pot-with-lid-made-of-red-clay From what I've gathered from the vague descriptions of the process in her various listings, the pieces are bisqued, then soaked in whole milk, then fired a second time to 950°C which gives them a glaze-y, supposedly foodsafe finish. Has anyone here tried this? I'm seriously intrigued. I was thinking of giving it a try with Runyan's Red-Brown Body, as it has a very wide firing range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcia Selsor Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 I think it is related to a way of sealing similar to obvara. Janice Chassier talked about it in her presentation at NCECA. You might want to contact her at JaniceChassier.com She was in Ukraine collecting information about Obvara and variations. Marcia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellaria Posted April 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 Here's another piece done by a different Ukrainian potter, with a slightly different description of the process (she fires to a higher temp) https://www.etsy.com/listing/167967907/gorshyk-pot-for-cooking-roast-pechenya?ref=sr_gallery_20&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyndham Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 Here's where I see an issue, look at the prices. A pot shipped from Europe, sold on etsy for $15 and the potter makes a living & the seller made a profit, how does this fit? Yea, we're discussing technique and I'm off topic but anybody else see the 800 lb gorilla? Wyndham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellaria Posted April 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 I doubt the potter is making a living from their etsy shop. It did make me wonder what the cost of living is there, and how much $15 US gets them.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark C. Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 Something does not ADD Up It's not a gorilla it's an import sham most likley. If it sounds to got well you know the rest. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 yeah I was born on Saturday, but not last Saturday, "...glazed with the milk of a domestic village cow" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayjay Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 Is anyone else seeing some strong similarities between those two pots, in both form and decoration? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 Etsy is now full of mass produced items. For instance, try finding hand made leather goods there and you'll see that 90% are from China or India or some other country with cheap labor. They put up a fake identity to make it look like it's a person in their studio making the work, but it's clearly factory made stuff. Yes, those pots were decorated by hand and probably formed by hand, too, but it was most likely done in a factory setting. Etsy is slowly turning in Amazon. I've lost a lot of respect for the site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellaria Posted April 18, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2014 The pieces don't look at all the same to me, between the two sellers. One is clearly selling better-formed work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diane Puckett Posted April 18, 2014 Report Share Posted April 18, 2014 Interesting article http://cultkiev.com/en/news/the-pottery-is-a-heaven-born-craft . I am trying to figure out what substance in cow's milk would not burn out in a firing. It is only about 70 miles from Kiev to Chernobyl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bciskepottery Posted April 18, 2014 Report Share Posted April 18, 2014 I am trying to figure out what substance in cow's milk would not burn out in a firing. It is only about 70 miles from Kiev to Chernobyl. Back a bit, we had this thread w/videos. The Tibetan potters sealed their low-fire wares with a mixture of barley powder and yogurt whey. http://community.ceramicartsdaily.org/topic/5683-great-video-on-african-forming-and-firing-wow/?hl=%2Bafrican+%2Bpotter&do=findComment&comment=53400 Wonder if the Ukrainians are using raw, unpasteurized milk? And, would chocolate milk give you a tenmoko? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Min Posted April 18, 2014 Report Share Posted April 18, 2014 I am trying to figure out what substance in cow's milk would not burn out in a firing. It is only about 70 miles from Kiev to Chernobyl. Back a bit, we had this thread w/videos. The Tibetan potters sealed their low-fire wares with a mixture of barley powder and yogurt whey. http://community.ceramicartsdaily.org/topic/5683-great-video-on-african-forming-and-firing-wow/?hl=%2Bafrican+%2Bpotter&do=findComment&comment=53400 Wonder if the Ukrainians are using raw, unpasteurized milk? And, would chocolate milk give you a tenmoko? So, do you think it would work like an old school casein glue to seal the inside? Maybe something else mixed with milk? With the translation of the second link from Stellaria it seems like the milk is fired into the pot. Perhaps it is just a very low carbonization of the "glaze" turning the pots blackish? Prices seem dirt cheap, (pun intended) but then I don't know the cost of living in that part of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bciskepottery Posted April 19, 2014 Report Share Posted April 19, 2014 My guess is the milk would burn out during firing, so I think you'd apply it post firing -- similar to what's shown in the Tibetan video. Sounds interesting, often described in on-line articles as water repellant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellaria Posted April 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 19, 2014 The listings of both potters say that they are "bathed" or otherwise covered in milk and then fired again. One of them calls it "double kilning". I threw a bowl today that I actually *gasp!* surface decorated, which I will soak in milk after bisque firing. I'll re-bisque after that and see what happens. And yes, it will be whole, unpasteurized milk. Not chocolate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Banfield Posted April 23, 2014 Report Share Posted April 23, 2014 I have been experimenting with milk firing for a while. The bisque fired pots are soaked in whole milk for 10 to 15 minutes, then allowed to thoroughly dry. They are then heated to 600f to 650f and held their until the desired color is achieved. Any hotter and the milk burns off. Once cooled the pots seem to be water tight. I have had some success, but haven't achieved the evenness I see in the Russian/Ukranian pieces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted April 23, 2014 Report Share Posted April 23, 2014 http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/ar/archive/nov05/milk1105.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Banfield Posted April 23, 2014 Report Share Posted April 23, 2014 I just posted a picture of a piece I did in the milk a couple weeks ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Min Posted April 24, 2014 Report Share Posted April 24, 2014 I have been experimenting with milk firing for a while. The bisque fired pots are soaked in whole milk for 10 to 15 minutes, then allowed to thoroughly dry. They are then heated to 600f to 650f and held their until the desired color is achieved. Any hotter and the milk burns off. Once cooled the pots seem to be water tight. I have had some success, but haven't achieved the evenness I see in the Russian/Ukranian pieces. Very Interesting! http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/ar/archive/nov05/milk1105.pdf Would be great if this process could be developed into a viable replacement for BPA on tin can lining. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellaria Posted April 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2014 So about to cone 020, then, correct? Do they even make Orton cones that low-temp? My kiln only has a kiln sitter - nothing to register actual temp or to regulate. Would I be better off making a bunch of stuff to justify a special firing in the computer-controlled kiln at the arts center? Or could I just keep an eye on it through a spy hole until they get as dark as I want? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Banfield Posted April 24, 2014 Report Share Posted April 24, 2014 I've only use my raku kiln and, believe it or not, our oven. I have to watch the raku kiln very closely because it heats fairly fast. Our oven has a top heat of 550. It's a little below the recommended temp, but it still works. Once it reaches temperature, I watch through the window until I get the color I want. Both processes only take a few minutes. The raku is faster, but the colors vary with the air currents. The oven gives a more even color, but takes a little longer. Also, be careful handling the piece once it has Bennett's in the milk. The oils from your fingere can a actually leave prints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babs Posted April 24, 2014 Report Share Posted April 24, 2014 Not a joke, how do you think yoghurt would work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellaria Posted April 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2014 I will check my oven! So would it be best to fire the pot to complete vitrification first? The clay I'm using is a ^04-8 (not sure how that's possible, but whatever) red-brown, but sometimes the studio only bisques to 07. I should specify that I need it to go to 04 right off, then, correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olbkaka Posted April 24, 2014 Report Share Posted April 24, 2014 Hey guys! I have noticed a link about my pots and you here are ansure about technology Why not to ask me directly?)) I think it would be more helpfull then guessing how to)) Here are more images: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.511091978961862.1073741835.442795785791482&type=3 they shows I'm not selling something produced at a factory)) on some items there are even fingertips. Actually it is true that I'm not making them by myself and I'm just a seller. The maker lives in a village and mostly sells his items at Kyiv and Chernihiv area. But I can ask him about some specific questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellaria Posted April 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2014 That would be excellent! Mainly, I asked here rather than asking directly because first, I also sell pottery on etsy and I know some people are leery of sharing "trade secrets", which is understandable. And second, just because I was curious if anyone here had tried it. But yes, I'd love it if you could get more information on the process from the potter that makes the pieces you sell! Type of clay, firing temperature for the first firing, if the final firing temperature is held for a certain length of time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.