nomis Posted June 13, 2021 Report Share Posted June 13, 2021 Hi there, I would like to know if anyone has ever heard of a pugmill that would operate manually, without a motor. I figured it would be a cheaper machine to buy, and probably easier to make. My idea is to have the simplest pugmill possible and in a smaller size because I don't need something big. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babs Posted June 13, 2021 Report Share Posted June 13, 2021 Yes, usually driven by slaves or animals.....:-)) Some homemade one's. But 2nd hand one's on market from time to time worth waiting for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomis Posted June 13, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2021 I'd be very interested in any references or links regarding homemade models / instructions for making them !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GEP Posted June 13, 2021 Report Share Posted June 13, 2021 I don’t think it exists. But if there were a hand-cranked pug mill, it would probably take just as much exertion as wedging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomis Posted June 13, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2021 There are several reasons why one might want a hand-cranked pugmill; and any help from anyone will be most welcome <3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CactusPots Posted June 13, 2021 Report Share Posted June 13, 2021 You should see an actual motorized pugmill in operation to get an idea what kind of work is really being accomplished. Without looking, I'd guess a moderate pugmill has a 3 HP motor with a substantial gear reduction. Arnold in his prime couldn't crank that by hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnolia Mud Research Posted June 13, 2021 Report Share Posted June 13, 2021 1 hour ago, nomis said: There are several reasons why one might want a hand-cranked pugmill; and any help from anyone will be most welcome Vince Pitelka wrote about his homebuilt pugmill:https://vincepitelka.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Building-the-Harry-Davis-Pugmill.pdf The "motor" can be any device, hand cranked, water fall, windmill, etc. I recall reading years ago about using a hand driven sausage grinder for small amounts of clay. a pugmill is just a tough version of a bread/cake mixer. clay mixing has been around a lot longer pugmills. think outside of the standard box and improvise! LT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomis Posted June 13, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2021 LT, your answer is very motivating, I'll dig into it!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterH Posted June 13, 2021 Report Share Posted June 13, 2021 25 minutes ago, CactusPots said: ... Without looking, I'd guess a moderate pugmill has a 3 HP motor with a substantial gear reduction. ... One horsepower is ~746watts. A Tour de France rider will average 220 to 320 watts for a four-hour stage; that's an intensity most recreational riders can sustain for only an hour or so. So a hand-cranked pugmill is going to be pretty low powered for the task, and hard work. Not arguing that's it's not worth a try, but with limited ambitions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted June 13, 2021 Report Share Posted June 13, 2021 The primary benefit a pugger has over a plain mixer is that it can de-air the clay. You'll need a vacuum machine for that, regardless of how you're operating the pugger itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldlady Posted June 13, 2021 Report Share Posted June 13, 2021 is a UK wadbox the thing nomis is looking for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomis Posted June 13, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2021 Is this an extruder? It seems to me that it doesn't have enough power to mix the clay at all? So no I don't think so! I'm not sure if my idea is the right one. I couldn't spare the wedging without de-airing pugmill, and there are other methods to recycle clay. I'm going to rethink this for now! Thank you for your answers! It helped me to see more clearly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark C. Posted June 13, 2021 Report Share Posted June 13, 2021 Water fall waterwheel would do the trick very well-as you need some power. Lets see huge construction project taking long time vs a used commercial machine? cost benefit may be a concern here? Of couse solar power could power that motor as well. The deairing is a nice feature on most machines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CactusPots Posted June 13, 2021 Report Share Posted June 13, 2021 It's all about scale, isn't it? I would question whether a more efficient use of human power could be had than basic wedging. If you scale it down to 10lbs +\- , ok. If you scale it up to my PP30 with 40lb output, good luck. Various oriental potters use foot wedging. I know they have water driven machines etc for grinding, but I think not wedging. Always look to history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babs Posted June 16, 2021 Report Share Posted June 16, 2021 Research Barry Brickell New Zealand. If he hasn't done it, don't waste your time :-)) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark C. Posted June 16, 2021 Report Share Posted June 16, 2021 18 hours ago, Babs said: Research Barry Brickell New Zealand. If he hasn't done it, don't waste your time :-)) Berry passed some years ago-he was quite the powerhouse in ceramics-I visted his place with the train and all back in the 90s. Small factiod- He had the toughest feet of any human I have ever known Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denice Posted June 16, 2021 Report Share Posted June 16, 2021 I use the slam method to wedge up my clay if needed, what cone of clay are you working with. I work with C5/6 and find that the blocks of clay are real stiff, slamming them will soften it up. I discovered that when you put the block of clay in a 5 gal bucket of water over night it will be the perfect consistency for throwing in the morning. No slamming needed, the open plastic end on the clay should stay above the water level. Denice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GEP Posted June 16, 2021 Report Share Posted June 16, 2021 Slam wedging is a great suggestion. I'm not sure if it's less effort than regular wedging, but it is definitely easier on certain joints, and a good solution for a lot of people. Here's a good youtube video on slam wedging. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HApNjUnI9U4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick White Posted June 16, 2021 Report Share Posted June 16, 2021 I tried the sausage mixer. Nice idea, but didn't work very well. The clay sticks to the blades and the whole thing turns as one, no mixing occurs until you wet it down to slip slop consistency. And then, once mixed, you have to dig it out with a spoon. If you lived near me (or I had enough money for a vacation in France) I would give it to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomis Posted June 17, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2021 I've been trying slam wedging for a few days now and it works well for me. it really does save the wrists indeed. Very handy for recycling / mixing clays of different consistency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted June 18, 2021 Report Share Posted June 18, 2021 I love slam wedging. Saves the wrists and back. But gives the thighs a good work out, as I drop slam onto a concrete paving slab. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denice Posted June 18, 2021 Report Share Posted June 18, 2021 Another plus about slam wedging is that you wedge up 25lbs of clay at one slamming session. I wished I had known about it earlier in my career, my hand doctor wants to operate on my right wrist again. I left wrist just finished healing from my surgery last November. Denice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark C. Posted June 18, 2021 Report Share Posted June 18, 2021 What is the right wrist issue?-I'm still recoving from left wrist bone removal myself-(5 months now since the knife-wrist is still a bit weak) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CactusPots Posted June 18, 2021 Report Share Posted June 18, 2021 I can get a homogenized clay from pieces too dry to wedge any other way by beating on them with a rolling pin. Sort of like slam wedging. I call it forge wedging. Kind of like forging steel. Dryer clay like that will give up some interesting textures naturally when run through the slab roller, especially on the edges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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