What design of lid more durable

[Babs]

From a previous post where lidded jars were being sold as compost pots, being clumsy or uncareful, wet hands, etc etc, what design of lid and knob/handle do you feel would be most durable without being heavy. Asking this because invariable the lid goes or is dropped onto rim of pot...

Also consider the pot and it having to be carried outside I guess, how would you tackle that?

[liambesaw]

I have been designing a compost jar, unglazed ribbed knob.  I did not design mine to be carried around, I think most people use paper or compostable bags for theirs around here so it wasn't an issue in my design, I suppose I could add some lugs high up.  I chose a straight cylinder with a female lid (non complex?)

Interested to hear others

 

[Magnolia Mud Research]

The standard milk churn from early 20th century is a good model.

LT

[neilestrick]

Compost jars should not have a lid seating- the lid should have a flange. That way when you dump out the compost it doesn't get all gooby on the lid seat. For a knob I like to use what basically looks like a tall-ish foot ring. It's wide enough that you have good balance when removing the lid, and it doesn't add much weight to a wide lid.

[Callie Beller Diesel]

Yes, I photo styled a compost jar. 

Like Liam, the knob is unglazed and easily grabbed. I wet sand the knob at the bisque stage so it’s nice and smooth to the touch.  There are lugs on the side of the pot that one could attach a handle to, but for the most part we use compost bags. 

If the jar gets icky, it gets thrown in the dishwasher. 

[Babs]

Thanks thinking about it more seriously as metal and plastic are not good answers to compost storers indoors...for me.

Neil's point re a flanged lid is a logical solution to the gunk which woyld lurk under the gallery.

Breathing holes in lids?

Getting away from the bag thingie lugs to fasten a handle to would be better than sticking out stuff in my household.

What weight is in that one of yours Callie?

Just going to look up the milk churn..I've forgotten that look:-)

[Babs]

6 hours ago, Magnolia Mud Research said:

The standard milk churn from early 20th century is a good model.

LT

I have had/ have crocks such as those but lid knobs invariably allowed for easy dropping and so cracked chipped lids resulted.

[Callie Beller Diesel]

@Babs the jar started out as three pounds of clay, and the lid was thrown off the hump, so I’m not sure. My 10 year old takes the compost out and he hasn’t complained about the weight. 

I didn’t put breathing holes in the lids because I wanted a jar for my own house that was of a size that I’m obliged to take it out daily or nearly daily. They get bugs in the summer otherwise. 

[Benzine]

Don't these jars, start to smell a bit?  I do remember @Pres mentioning, that he created something to deal with potential smells, but I've seen a lot of jars, that don't seem to have anything.

[Pres]

My canister lids use an inner and outer galley, or a wrap around galley. It fits onto the jar, but the two edges create a better seal than just the inner galley. I really don't have any proof that they are any better, but they do hold up well, and seem to have better shelf life on things that moisture will effect like sugars. The rim of the jar is just a thick @3/8 inch  rounded rim.

 

best,

Pres

[Min]

Don't know about other people but we get fruit flies galore with compost pots in the warmer months. Probably should empty them more often but that's one of those jobs that is easy to put off. I spent way too much time thinking about this but I'm going to start making them with a split rim on the base to make a water moat (or might use vinegar in the moat). When I first started making them the "regular" way with a flanged lid I threw a tiny inner lip around the inside of the flange to wedge in a circle cutout of charcoal filter in, the type from cat litter boxes, gave up on that as it doesn't seem to add much benefit.

 

[Pres]

Only other option I could see would be a water seal like in a fermenting jar with lid that fits in a pool of water in a wide trough at the rim of the jar.

 

 

best,

Pres

[Mark C.]

I use a 2 gallon plastic  bucket under sink-no lid-empty often. We are just to hard on this to think about ceramic.It lives under sink behind a door.

If I was making a ceramic one it would be a lid like a frrench butterdish-no gallery on top and a super stout lifter so its does not break.Think stout

The lid has a small drop down ring that holds it in place.

[neilestrick]

Here's one I made a few years ago. The pot has no lid seating, so it's easy to dump out and clean.

[Benzine]

How big are these generally?

I can definitely see fruit flies being an issue, as we have them magically appear, around our lidded garbage can in the later Summer months.  If we have bananas sitting out, the flies are even worse.  So I've gotten accustomed to having a cup of apple cider vinegar, with a drop of dish soap, sitting on the counter.  They get attracted to that, try to land on the surface of the vinegar, and don't get back out. 

[neilestrick]

1 hour ago, Benzine said:

How big are these generally?

I can definitely see fruit flies being an issue, as we have them magically appear, around our lidded garbage can in the later Summer months.  If we have bananas sitting out, the flies are even worse.  So I've gotten accustomed to having a cup of apple cider vinegar, with a drop of dish soap, sitting on the counter.  They get attracted to that, try to land on the surface of the vinegar, and don't get back out. 

Mine are about 8 inches tall to the lip of the pot. It's a good size for the average home, but I've had vegetarians say they're way too small, that they'd fill it up by mid-day. Much larger, though, and it becomes a pretty big jar, which would be a bit heavy for carrying out to the compost bin. I never have problems with flies getting into mine, and I only empty it every 3 days or so. The lid seems to do a good job.

[liambesaw]

6 minutes ago, neilestrick said:

Mine are about 8 inches tall to the lip of the pot. It's a good size for the average home, but I've had vegetarians say they're way too small, that they'd fill it up by mid-day. Much larger, though, and it becomes a pretty big jar, which would be a bit heavy for carrying out to the compost bin. I never have problems with flies getting into mine, and I only empty it every 3 days or so. The lid seems to do a good job.

I'm a vegetarian of sorts and my bin is always full by the end of the day.  We empty it every night anyway though to keep the smell and flies down.  It's more there for a place to put food garbage while we are preparing food and less there to store the food waste.  I think 8 inches tall is probably plenty for most people, no need to cater to use veggie heads haha

[neilestrick]

Another option if you need a big one is to put a plastic pail with a handle inside the ceramic pot. I made one like that for a customer once. It also had a ridge around the underside of the lid to hold some sort of filter to keep smells down. I just made it all off the dimensions she gave me, so I never saw it with all the parts together. I've never found odors to be a problem, though.

[Callie Beller Diesel]

Mine is about 5 1/2" tall and 7 1/2" wide. Our family of 4 fills it daily, and more often if there's some kind of big family dinner. In wanted mine on the small end because then you do have to empty it more frequently, and that keeps the fruit flies under control and smell isn't an issue.

[hitchmss]

Im kind of with Mark on this one; we dont have a place to compost here at home, so when we do, it has to get toted to an offsite location, which means it needs to be something more durable than pottery, which is.....a cheap ol plastic 2 gallon bucket.

I personally think clay/pottery has its limitations in comparison with other media/materials made for the same products; I love a handmade mug, but use my yeti travel mug every day....stainless steel, boring as heck, but doesnt break, and works well. For a while, and still kind of do, I thought about making food storage containers, like tupperware, from ceramic....seems awfully cumbersome and inconvenient, but oh how much prettier and enjoyable.

Two things came to mind when reading through the other responses; to make a vessel big enough that its more than a one day use (if thats what you want), then the potter must have an efficient use of their clay; a 5# empty, quart sized container would not be fun to lug around. 2, wet hands (often in the kitchen) and slick glazed sides mean handles are a must....make em ergonomic and meaty...big lug style handles, at least 1-1.5" off the side of the pot..near the rim, so the thumbs can hook over top easy. I personally would do a thrown, more cylindrical style handle; grab it in a fist, and pick up; a shallow parabola with a lip/ridge at the upper point to catch in the hand.

Also, in the interest of containing smells, and making a "durable" lid to be beat around, what about a non ceramic version? Thinking like some kind of plumbing rubber end cap, like the kind youd get with a hose clamp for sealing off pipes. They come in numerous sizes, are flexible/could fit around oblong/out of round pots, and as long as the fit isnt too snug, would lift off relatively easily....i think? Just an idea! Ive been toying around with making airtight seals on lidded ceramic objects either with brush on tool dips, or cast in place silicones....initial tests were ok, but need a lot of improvement.

[Babs]

Great replies everyone.

Plastic buckets are things which are getting less and less durable imo and recycles are pretty much feelhoodies in my area.

Folk wash, stack ,squash em but  when China stopped taking our waste and why should it, its just "stored" dumped etc etc..

So with a pit in my back yard where archeoligists are going to make judgements on the quality kf potters and folk are going to try to refire my seconds... I want just clay pots...

Will read the replies again and again.

Empty compost every day for chooks/chickens so not a lot of scraps unless handling batches of vegies fruit for preserving

Thanks for input.

 

[Mark C.]

We used our small compost bucket forever a decade before it gave out(plastic)-If it was ceramic it it would have been busted long ago. I tap out my expresso grounds)hard) from our machine daily on its side wall (like you see at a real coffee shop) not a maxwell  or waffy shop-and no ceramic pot can take that abuse. 10 years is along service time for a small bucket.

not as to gallery lids vs straight walls thats easy as most gallery stuff is more fragile. The straight up wall on say a frenchbutter dish is more durable that a lidded galley piece

In terms of lifters the best looking ones are always more fragile in my mind so its a trade off. Say Callie's lifter-I really like it and you can see its easy to grab but it way more fragile than Neils.

I think this is where middle ground makes sense-for compost pot I would tend to favor Neils lifter for a honey pot I may choose Callie's lifter only smaller.

Its up to us potter to make pots that are strong enough to hold up yet nice looking enough to have the right ascetic .Its always a trade off.

[Rae Reich]

My old peanut butter crock rim is straight on the inside and beefy on the outside, leaving a nice fat break-resistant ledge for lifting. The lid design has a minimal knob, but the overhang is easily graspable. Its inside collar is also stubby and minimal, but that's a definite advantage as far as durability, the slight curve of the lid helps to center it on the crock. 

Its clear that these crocks were mass produced, their design streamlined for ease of production and all the needs of the user satisfied. They could have their lids fastened down by looping cord around the knob and below the rim.

Plenty for the inventive potter to riff on...