Bill Kielb

No, I thought you were spot on, just pointing out any meter capable of reading type k thermocouples will work and any type k will measure the range but gauge is the part not to get wrong for longevity as well as don’t forget the holder and wire. Lots of vom’s come with k type readers built in and usually a light gauge thermocouple as described as burning up above. Generally perfectly fine to just buy a heavier gauge thermocouple for the use and the meter will read it fine providing it will go four digits. Type k output is consistent across all gauges of probes. It’s part of simplicity and accuracy of thermocouples. I thought your suggestion was good actually

My favorite off subject analogous technology debate has been what technological advances have had the greatest impact on golf for the entire golfing community, public and private. The typical answers are computers, radar and spin analysis, high speed video, swing science, range of motion, golf ball physics and engineering, high tech clubs, moment of inertia, boron graphite shafts ............ One of the most popular agreed upon answers - agronomy! Cut the lawn, water it and fertilize. Low tech, high tech however you view it it has impacted the game significantly over the last 50 years or so. I wonder how much claybodies have changed things and glaze science and ........... well Boron has to be huge in there somewhere since cone six is a thing for reasons still unknown why six? Just sayin

Neil is right but just to add common for kilns is 8 guage to withstand the temperature. K is one of the most common types and small gauge K often come with meters and are not suitable for high temp. However, if the meter reads type K, any type K will work. Good idea to get a holder and a bit of thermocouple wire (type K wire) and connectors to run to your meter.

I think the traditional definition of the practical advancement of knowledge within a discipline is very appropriate. In the current day the meaning often has been the use of computers some way. I think the original definition is still appropriate and all encompassing to include any advancement in knowledge whether process, ease of construction, better quality, more quantity etc.... I think the original definition seems well thought out.

It’s crazy expensive now but it definitely works. How much? Never measured it really, I have used it strictly to extend the life of soft bricks / soda fire but liked it so much just started using it on reg gas firing soft brick for the energy benefit. Looks good on the IR camera but never really formally measured . Sorry to hear your guy is gone.

It’s tough because if it’s a laser you need to recalibrate for emissivity.

I have measured after refractory coating with the flir (gas kilns) but only anecdotally it is so hard to correlate one firing to another objectively.. Always wanted to paint the inside of a lid and bottom of a regular electric kiln which would have provided a good platform to get real data. Had the ITC 100 left over too. Just too chicken at the time or worried it would eventually flake off the kiln lid.

It will have an effect as the radiant component which will be reradiated back to the brick. This is measurable and something refractory coatings are good at as they get installed on the inside surface where their effect is more significant. It may cause the top of your kiln to grow and move more so be careful. Folks who add insulation to the top of their kiln often complain about the lid warping. It likely will not have an effect on the overall conductivity or R value though but likely should provide a measurable improvement. Most of the heat in the kiln ends up to be radiant after about 1000 degrees, conduction and convection fall off rapidly.

I think I can agree with your point. Personally for me I like technology but also dislike when that same technology replaces basic learning. It often can serve to improve learning but as folks get lazy their skills go away, even for teachers. It’s just a personal thing with me as a teacher. 3D printing likely makes you a better ........... 3D printer using clay as a medium. It’s ok, just not all that impressive or indicative of ones mastery of pottery. The griffin grip, electric kiln, controls, natural gas, propane ....... arguments are a bit weak in my opinion as they replace manual skills or basic brain skills or are just another fuel source. Very few folks have a clear concept of firing rates, now why is that? How can you finish school and not be able to at least know the basics of bisque firing and glaze firing or how do cones work. Maybe they are not discussed because we automated all of that out and it’s boring to teach, or learn? It’s interesting in twenty years of adjunct teaching HVAC my first question in a balancing class was always how do you pick the size of the very first piece of ductwork. Similar to asking the basic stages of clay construction. The answer is super simple, the answers I received were never even close. These were adults in the very last portion of the program. All of that had gone by the wayside in teaching and learning I guess. And no , no technophobe here, just finishing probably 500 lines of Visual Basic for some significant energy worksheets right at this moment.

All good arguments! I think true to the question though is where is your personal limit and perhaps why. As far as hand made? Don’t give up on human capability even without a computer and some exacting stepper motors. Lots of amazing things out there made / carved / painted / thrown by masters of their craft that would make a printer blush. ( oh, out of magenta again $#@!)

I refuse to build an automatic kiln control, only monitors so one can learn to master their trade and more clearly asssociate what you see and hear with what is going on. I am speaking reduction of course, automatic kiln controls for electrics have already destroyed teaching rates and schedules and what happens when and why. See the reduction level? Now look at the flame every time and draw experience from it. Automation and gauges and pyrometers all good tools to help you learn things so you can go experiment and apply your artful thinking. Master your 3 D printer, meh. Does it allow you to learn ceramics, maybe. Maybe it forces you to master the 3D thing, which is ok I guess. I am pretty good at Autocad and it’s a nice tool but buildings get built well when folks master their trade. Autocad is a small component of the lifetime of knowledge one needs to be effective.

@Pres I actually do (read your stuff) and you are probably the last person I can think of that fires by color which is impressive . It was an extremely important skill in early use of kilns. Humans can actually do some amazing things. Damage to eyesight was an occupational hazard. I like electronics a whole bunch but most often we struggle to emulate human skills with what seems like electronic precision. Controllers likely good for most folks though but the lessons of heat color sort of lost in textual explanations likely never to be learned with appropriate appreciation.

Sounds logical and likely has little effect on firing time. Not a whole bunch of air moves around after red heat but I suspect small amounts are just what the doctor ordered. Time tested! Wax is always difficult through about 800 degrees even with a downdraft vent.

I believe it! The qualifier “That Said leaving a plug or two out seems to have very little negative effect on firing time as well.” all plugs, for the whole firing probability not good.

I would agree, the atmosphere is so thin at high temperature we never feel or observe anything push out a spy hole when we remove a port plug. That said leaving a plug or two out seems to have very little negative effect on firing time as well. A power vent is definitely more effective and a properly operating one removes an extremely small amount of kiln air per minute when we actually measure it.

Gesso is basically white paint to seal canvass, it will burn off in the kiln.

Skutt 181 pretty simple kiln really. If the community around you was not able to make that run, maybe time to rethink purchasing a used kiln. Most will likely need maintenance at least as difficult as the Skutt.

The Lees is so solid I can wash both sides and simply flip shelves as necessary to keep them straight. Wash stays on tight. Pricey though but great in a studio.

Agreed - my experience, zircon based washes are way better. Most folks don’t even think about their old wash recipe after using A decent zircon product. Lee’s is zircon based I believe.

Just my opinion I think what’s more interesting is you can likely buy a 6300 watt element set and turn this into a cone 8 kiln with the ring. My guess is they fit and wiring likely fine internally but easy to upgrade for little if needed. And of course your service to the kiln needs to be 40 amps. With creativity and the fact it’s currently only rated cone 6 maybe a good negotiating point. Of course you would need to confirm all this. My other thought is the difference in losses between 3” brick and 2” is about 20% thermally. 3” brick Or 2-1/2” with 1” insulation has jumped up higher on my list of priorities For sure. Your question: remove the blank ring and looks like it becomes a cone 8. By today’s standards I think I calculated it about 3.75 W / interior surface area square inch. With today’s elements (Kanthal) and by today’s standards it probably gets to cone 10 actually. Taking this farther installing a Bartlett V6 CF, old style digital (not touch screen) with relays etc.... and some creativity in searching for best price probably cost 250.00 - 400.00 depending how resourceful you are. So if you can get this with furniture for a super price, it has lots of possibilities.

Here is an interesting find, as of 2008, with 2-1/2” brick, 18X18 - same wattage it’s rated cone 8. With a 4” blank making it 18X23 they increased the wattage to 6300 to achieve cone 8. Seems like the cone 6 designation on the equipment tag is likely pretty honest. I am guessing it was built this way new. Pretty amazing that an extra half inch of brick gets this rated to cone 10.in stock form.

One thing you might find handy is the kiln loss chart by L&L. They have several and I am really glad they did the research as it reveals that to get near cone ten you need a bit more than 3.5 watts per square inch of interior surface area and is really very consistent to the majority of their data with it going up in the 4 watts per square inch range as things get bigger. Keep in mind it’s still acceptable for almost all kilns to replace elements when they degrade by ten percent So not a lot of wiggle room or models that will perform well below this. Lots of other things can be realized from these charts as well but this shows clearly without enough power, it just ain’t gonna make it. Interior surface areas for round kilns involve 2 X pi X radius X height plus the area of top and bottom which is fairly easy to figure for most kilns to get an idea if it will perform reasonably. Interesting charts and also nice for figuring out how much heat will need to be removed, HVAC wise. https://hotkilns.com/sites/default/files/pdf/BTUS-School-Master.pdf https://hotkiln.com/sites/default/files/pdf/BTUS-Easy-Fire.pdf

My favorite quality!

For windows select the pics then right click, say send by email, pick medium size, send to yourself. Save these resized pics somewhere and post them. Green should be connected to ground for this kiln for safety. All wires are used for this kiln if you have a top ring. Red, black, white and green for ground. Connections need to be well made and well crimped very tight else they will not last. If you do not have a top ring it is possible someone could have wired this using only a single circuit which would mean a hot, a neutral and green still should have been used to ground the shell. Hopefully if this was done it is on a dedicated 20 amp circuit and wired with #12 wire or better. Truth be told at 120 v this is a touch over 19 amps which would require a 25 amp breaker and #10 wire today. here is your diagram this should clear up your questions of where each wire goes. If it worked before and now does not after service, it’s very likely something was missed or incorrectly wired when you serviced it. Element crimps need to be fully seated and crimped very tight. https://skutt.com/images/181-Wiring-Diagram.pdf

Its an old cone 6 kiln