Hulk

^ good question dh
Thinkin' 'bout Mark's question raises (for me):
  What type of mentor/mentee (wow, "mentee" actually dictionary word*) experiences have you had in wheel?
From how long to learn to how.
Wheel instruction in the two classes I've had consisted of brief demonstrations, then go to it. Students who had questions or were obviously struggling got one on one and/or small group instruction. I'm not complainin' - I'd rather toodle and stumble along than get instruction that don't fit me; that said, perhaps timely and appropriate mentorship may have helped? May help in future?
Any road, my mentor is a motley of visual (realtime and video), print, stills. In the other direction - I'm no one's mentor in wheel!
*a manatee learning from another would be a manatee mentee, and same who'd ordered tea would be a manatee mentee who meant tea, and... 

At what point in a potter's career does he/she stop searching for and testing new glazes?
When does the potter become satisfied with his/her stable of glazes and says "This is enough"?
 

What is realistic amout of time to spend before being able to produce quality thrown forms on the wheel.Meaning ones that others will want (not family members)
1 year 
2 years
3 years 
4 years 
5 years 
longer?

Here's a question for you:
Do you think you have helped, or been helped more by people in the flesh, or by forums, or by You-Tube?  Pottery-wise, not your whole world.

When I took a JC Raku class, I was required to sculpt a modernized version of a Xian Warrior. The requirement was that we use an existing warrior and modify it to reflect how we see ourselves and our current life situation in clay. I chose to show myself as a farmer since I do have a "hobby" farm. (No, I don't grow hobbies...). 
My question is: How do you see yourself in clay?
Here's what I came up with:

I just opened up my new Ceramics Monthly (what a great magazine- and I see you have another article published, Pres!) and saw on page 20 a first exhibit by Anna Whitehouse called #100bottles100days. 
This made me wonder whether anyone here, at any time in your practice, undertook something like this, an item made in different versions over a course of a large number of days. I know people who have done a painting a day or a drawing of a nude each day...
If so, what was your specific objective in the exercise?
 

Scored an old iron bacon press; want to make a mold so I can make trays. I found a good clay for the purpose (Si02) but I need a better first impression so when I bisque it and make the final mold I get enough detail, especially in the letters (it sez bacon press).  The rough & quick tray is with a direct pressing, so the words are still reversed--it's just for some glaze testing. 

Ok, ended up only throwing 2 keepers last night, but I got my gauge set and will throw some more tonight.  I can only do 3 a night for now because 3 of my bigger bats up and walked off somewhere.  Oh well!  I have a 50lb bag of plaster #1 and some pie tins, I should just start making some.
Anyway, another video if anyone is interested in my process.
 

This lovely penguin was made by Liz Fletcher and I got it in a NH Potters' Guild pot swap. A good friend collects penguin stuff and I am reglazing it to make her a gift of it. The black was too thin in spots and there's a little chip on the beak that needs coverage. Hopefully, an 05 refire will do the trick.  Yes, that's snow in the background.
 

We've got 2 huskies, a 3 year old white one (Kita), she's 65lbs, and a 10 month old cream one (Kodi) and he's 45lbs so far.  We also have a 12 year old daschund (Scotch) and a 15 year old tuxedo cat (meowzer)!
 

"Don't get me started on the disrespect of educators."
to or from?   :|
jk!   ,)
...add coaches, custodians (aka cleaners, sweepers, janitors), an' …"old" people.
 
Back to leavin't'alone for a while (gestation), that so true! Is it the subconscious mind? ...I think so; for bigger problems, a night's sleep can really help as well. Makes sense to me, as my conscious mind ain' much.
The ten or fifteen minutes of hot tub after a hard swim has been a magical time for me (goin' back many years) for visualization of solutions, also a sit down before turning for home when out onna bike. Looks like dry roads today, whee!

Over the years, I have found that I often have to have a "Gestation state", a period of time where I don't do something, but think about it. Then when I return to the activity or problem, I have solved it without even really knowing it. This has happened to me often when dealing with throwing over the years. . . throwing off the hump and having "S" cracks, throwing large and not getting enough out of the base, Wonky rims, that were weak and poorly finished, trimming through too many large plates, cracks in large plates, cracks in large bowls, and the list could last for much longer. Point is, problems do not just disappear when you push more time into it, often you have to figure out why. Research helps, thinking about what you research helps, also thinking about what you know about clay and how it is structurally made up and how to use that instead of fight it. All in a lifetime of working with any material, especially one so simply complex.
 
best,
Pres 

What's a realistic amount of time to spend...
    Time at the wheel vs. calendar time, yep; "quality" focused time, yep on that as well.
...to produce quality thrown forms...
   I'll add consistent in thar, in terms of the keep to slake ratio high and repeat forms as well.
From there, I'll echo idk, as I'm not yet peddling; I believe some of my pieces are plenty good enough, however, the keep to slake ratio is low and I'm not repeating very well. Furthermore, I'm tweaking the shapes and styles. When I see* where a groups of pots can go on a shelf together, then I'll put'm out there. 
From what I've seen over the last year*, range appears to be never to a many months of focused regular practice, most somewhere in between.
    Never - just that; some of us will never learn to swim well either.
    "Several" months - where some pieces are good; the keep to slake ratio may be low, but there's a few good'n's every once't while, really. I'm basing this on what I've seen, not my own work, ahem.
I'm feeling lucky to have spent two semesters in a fully appointed lab ~eight hours week - there's no substitute for being with others, imo. Whilst there is lots of good info in books, magazines, utube, etc., they don't depict how mistakes are made very well (haha, which in Wheel I we're all doing - one can learn a lot from mistakes), also real life examples of sound skills (each does things just a bit differently, right?) besides many other dynamics. Any road, I'm not seeing where it would be easy to find a throwing teacher around here - there's the wheel, do this, go.
What type of experiences have others had mentor/mentee (wow, actually dictionary word) in wheel? Else has in person "influence by others" been mostly by watchin'? 
I'm a gonna go throw for a while. :|
* "see" in the sense that things we've become interested in are alla sudden seen differently, and that seeing evolves, perhaps quickly at first, as our interest/knowledge/skill/taste... evolves.

Pots "that others will want" is not the goal. Consistent reproduction of the product is. How long does this take to learn? That depends on whether who is teaching you can guide you into handles, lids, spouts, and gets you up and running.  Throwing the consistent cylindrical form takes patience, or about 6 months of 8 hour days working, but thats not to say 8 hours at the wheel. Maybe about half your time is spent on marketing (not part of your 8 hours, sadly), and studio time is divided up between the many tasks. The important thing here is not the "training" but rather the ineffable process of the body recording "muscle memory" - sort of like learning to ride a bicycle or play guitar. Don't expect to be playing gigs at local clubs after on 6 months of learning guitar. But you can learn guitar that will be enjoyable to others. Same with clay. Any professional artist who wants to stay in the game is a full time worker. You hear a lot of complaints about this, but its not really changed much since the 1960's.

I started selling my pottery after 4 months of working on it 1 day a week. I have (hopefully!) improved since then, but I started selling it when I felt it was good enough for a stranger to buy it and like it. Worked out fine.   Plenty of pieces ended up in the trash though and I was very selective about what I would offer up for sale.  

Mea makes the vital point here, I think.  Many people seem to find a market, at least for awhile, with pots that are "student pots."  Different people will buy them than those who seek only professional work.
I don't think this is particular to ceramics. There is a market for clothing that is not well made as well as a different one for well made clothing.
There is a market for prepared foods that have their issues as well as for gourmet.

This requires some brutal honesty and a merciless hammer. A person once told me there was enough crap pottery in the world she didn't want to add to it. She was a forthright person and I liked her.
I sometimes garage sale or cruise thrift stores with potters who find their own work. They smile and handover a few dollars and if necessary say something like "ya' - it's ok" all the while thinking how quickly the hammer will fall. I like these people too.
I hope to find something of my own one day and it would be nice to feel as though it deserved a good home away from hammers and rocks and piles of shards.

I was taking recreational pottery classes while working full-time as a designer. During those years I was also building up a freelance design practice on the side, so for several years I was working 1.5 full-time jobs. Pottery was my much needed stress relief on weekends. It took me eight years before I was making pots that I would consider “sellable.”  Sure I sold some pots before that, mostly at my studio’s holiday sale, and at some small local fairs, but I would call those pots “student pots” not “professional pots.” The people who bought them had the same expectation.
So for me, it was eight years of serious weekend practice. At that point I bought my own equipment and started working out of my own studio. This was a huge turning point, because it’s when I could finally make all of my own decisions, and especially to develop my own glazes. Before then, I really didn’t have control over how/when my pots got fired, and I was using the same clay/glazes that everyone else at my studio was using. Which means those pots were not MINE to the extent that professional pottery needs to be.
I would add that to the factors that make someone work professional-grade. Skill, aesthetics, sound science, and ORIGINALITY. If you can only make pots that look like somebody else’s, that’s not professional. 

I can't speak for others, but throwing took me a long time to learn. I do remember selling a few (worthy, competent) small items around year 3.  They were my best pieces at the time, and not produced in any sort of volume.  I agree that year numbers are a bit arbitrary, and intensive study matters. I needed every minute of those 10,000 hours to make things that, even if I can do better now, I'm not ashamed of. 

The 10,000 hr thing is to be a master, at anything, it's a generality of how many hours it takes to master any skill.
"Others will want" is pretty vague, I started selling pots I made in the 1st week of throwing, for dirt cheap, they were terrible. Around 500lbs I started getting better, but at 1000lbs I started having some confidence and felt better about selling a few mugs at the going price.

well, PT Barnum didn't think so.  
My perspective is that the customer  controls of what is bought, while the supplier controls what is offered for sale.   
 

Well thrown pots are not necessarily well designed either functionally or aesthetically.
 
best,
Pres

I'll let you know when I get there.  Like pres, I think hours is probably a better measure than years.
I can throw a nice even mug the same way pretty much every time, and I've got 10 months of "recent" wheel throwing under my belt now.  But I have a wheel at home and I am throwing for about 3 hours a night, 5 days a week.  Weekends are mostly glazing and firing so I'm only at the wheel maybe 4 hours.  So that's around 19 hours a week, for 44 weeks, 836 hours total so far and I'm just now feeling confident I can sell my mugs and bowls.

Well I think we all would rather hear what form of education has helped you the most in pottery, but you asked for it!
 

Chilly very recently posed the following question in the QotW pool: Do you think you have helped, or been helped more by people in the flesh, or by forums, or by You-Tube?  Pottery-wise, not your whole world.  I will take a little moderator's license here and paraphrase: As a potter/ceramic artist, Do you think you have helped, or been helped by more people in the flesh, by forums, You-Tube, or other printed or digital media?
I really have so much I could write here, so cut a long to the short. . . . 
 I have been a HS teacher, and as such I like to have thought that I influences hundreds if not thousands of people over the years to experience and appreciate all things ceramic. I have also been influenced by professors, and others in classes in college and graduate schools. In the flesh, oh yes, so many times have I been totally enthralled by a demonstration at a conference or festival, and often at a smaller venue as a workshop. I have also influenced others in the same way as I have demonstrated in festivals, smaller venues, and in my own classrooms.
I started getting answers to questions I had in the early days of the internet, seeking knowledge that was verifiable, and making use of it in my classroom and my own pottery. Often these would be forum or other texts of glaze formulas, firing solutions, repairs and other things. As the Ceramic Arts Network appeared I became a regular on the forum reading much of what was presented, finding some real gems, some friends, and lots of knowledge and usable advice. Later when asked to become a moderator by John Baymore, I jumped at the chance. I had recently retired and was looking for new venues for the teaching that I had so loved and so missed.  The turn had gone full circle and I now was able to learn and teach within the forum.
I have always been an avid reader, magazines and books, fiction and non fiction. I would often peruse Ceramics Monthly,  Clay Times, and later Pottery Making along with so many others to get information. I usually did not partake much of the art speak, as it was irrelevant to my personal interests. However, techniques, processes, studio shots, pottery, all of those I would drool over. Seems of late, I have found again that I can teach with in a magazine format with some of the published articles in the last few years. I still have an extensive library, and magazines coming monthly to keep me interested, especially in the winter months when the shop is Frozen  !
I have used You tube, when in the HS to show students alternatives to the way I throw, or how to trim a plate, or a bowl well. Of course I have learned some alternative techniques also, and find that some of my old students have come back to the adult classes and shown me videos that have influenced them and asked for my thoughts and alternatives.
Life is truly good!
 
 
best,
Pres