LeeU

I avoid juried groups and exhibits and try not to succumb to doing local art shows. It's just not for me. I was exposed to the "art scene" in NYC and VA and there is nothing about the whole milieu that I care for, especially the lifestyle that can come with it in some places, if one gets caught up in that. 
The most valuable learning I got from  my formal education (a state school) in ceramics was being taught the necessity and practice of critical thinking, and vetting for myself any assertions before buying into something, (like the mass mis-perception that Picasso is a great and revolutionary artist-sorry, couldn't resist). The first time I heard an excellent art history presentation on what was beyond the surface in a 15th century painting, where the fly on the pretty piece of fruit was actually a socio-economic commentary on the deterioration of the culture at the time, I realized that art is often about more than "what you see is what you get " or what I like or don't like--that formal education about art--making it, understanding it,  and appreciating it--is important.  
When I learned how to center and throw, I also learned about the great potters throughout the centuries, and clay artists working with non-functional objects.  This was amazing to me, and without the BFA degree program I doubt I'd ever be enlightened about the depth of possibilities for making things of clay and other materials, or the impact of art on the world. That is not to say that probably a high percentage of the learning could be acquired outside of a formal educational process, with free lectures, Youtube videos, decent local studio classes, local guilds etc. , and maybe easier to handle cost-wise , assuming there is a drive to make self-education a priority.  I often say something is not either-or, it is yes-and, and I thin k the viewpoints in this thread fit that perfectly--great discussion! 
3 hours after I wrote the above, this popped up on my FB feed: ""The true purpose of arts education is not necessarily to create more professional dancers or artists. It's to create more complete human beings who are critical thinkers, who have curious minds, who can lead productive lives." -- Kelly Pollock

I avoid juried groups and exhibits and try not to succumb to doing local art shows. It's just not for me. I was exposed to the "art scene" in NYC and VA and there is nothing about the whole milieu that I care for, especially the lifestyle that can come with it in some places, if one gets caught up in that. 
The most valuable learning I got from  my formal education (a state school) in ceramics was being taught the necessity and practice of critical thinking, and vetting for myself any assertions before buying into something, (like the mass mis-perception that Picasso is a great and revolutionary artist-sorry, couldn't resist). The first time I heard an excellent art history presentation on what was beyond the surface in a 15th century painting, where the fly on the pretty piece of fruit was actually a socio-economic commentary on the deterioration of the culture at the time, I realized that art is often about more than "what you see is what you get " or what I like or don't like--that formal education about art--making it, understanding it,  and appreciating it--is important.  
When I learned how to center and throw, I also learned about the great potters throughout the centuries, and clay artists working with non-functional objects.  This was amazing to me, and without the BFA degree program I doubt I'd ever be enlightened about the depth of possibilities for making things of clay and other materials, or the impact of art on the world. That is not to say that probably a high percentage of the learning could be acquired outside of a formal educational process, with free lectures, Youtube videos, decent local studio classes, local guilds etc. , and maybe easier to handle cost-wise , assuming there is a drive to make self-education a priority.  I often say something is not either-or, it is yes-and, and I thin k the viewpoints in this thread fit that perfectly--great discussion! 
3 hours after I wrote the above, this popped up on my FB feed: ""The true purpose of arts education is not necessarily to create more professional dancers or artists. It's to create more complete human beings who are critical thinkers, who have curious minds, who can lead productive lives." -- Kelly Pollock

I avoid juried groups and exhibits and try not to succumb to doing local art shows. It's just not for me. I was exposed to the "art scene" in NYC and VA and there is nothing about the whole milieu that I care for, especially the lifestyle that can come with it in some places, if one gets caught up in that. 
The most valuable learning I got from  my formal education (a state school) in ceramics was being taught the necessity and practice of critical thinking, and vetting for myself any assertions before buying into something, (like the mass mis-perception that Picasso is a great and revolutionary artist-sorry, couldn't resist). The first time I heard an excellent art history presentation on what was beyond the surface in a 15th century painting, where the fly on the pretty piece of fruit was actually a socio-economic commentary on the deterioration of the culture at the time, I realized that art is often about more than "what you see is what you get " or what I like or don't like--that formal education about art--making it, understanding it,  and appreciating it--is important.  
When I learned how to center and throw, I also learned about the great potters throughout the centuries, and clay artists working with non-functional objects.  This was amazing to me, and without the BFA degree program I doubt I'd ever be enlightened about the depth of possibilities for making things of clay and other materials, or the impact of art on the world. That is not to say that probably a high percentage of the learning could be acquired outside of a formal educational process, with free lectures, Youtube videos, decent local studio classes, local guilds etc. , and maybe easier to handle cost-wise , assuming there is a drive to make self-education a priority.  I often say something is not either-or, it is yes-and, and I thin k the viewpoints in this thread fit that perfectly--great discussion! 
3 hours after I wrote the above, this popped up on my FB feed: ""The true purpose of arts education is not necessarily to create more professional dancers or artists. It's to create more complete human beings who are critical thinkers, who have curious minds, who can lead productive lives." -- Kelly Pollock

Done with this forum

Happy happy--my helper is tackling this backlog (code, sort & store),  which will soon free up my workbench so I can get back to making things! 

Go ahead and send them my way when they're finished.  I'd post a picture of the mess, but I'm afraid it would cause some of the more organized folks here an aneurysm.

Pres:
i was not going to respond, and had actually turned off my Ipad....but... I felt the need to respond.
after reading your personal story: it is my honor to bestow upon you a Masters a Degree in Tenacity, Adaption, and Courage!
a life well lived.  tom

I think that painting everyone with the same brush is inherently inaccurate.  I submit there are many people who do not justify their good fortune in earning a degree by assuming negative things about others who did not/were not able to go the same route.  Just because  someone is educated and has a degree, that does not automatically tell anybody anything about their life, their values, their struggles, their pain (or joy), their economic status (good or bad) or their politics/philosophy/world view. 
 I always wanted to study art and the creative process as expressed in this and other cultures, now and in history. The value of formal education in developing my skills in ceramics is worth 1000xs the price, for many reasons, and it is still paying off to this day.  As someone who earned a BFA from an esteemed art school, while on welfare and struggling mightily as a single parent with a toddler in tow, and 20 years older than the other students, in deep poverty, at times homeless, with many other crippling hardships, plus the add-on of student loans, I must assert how  enriching, valuable, freeing, and supportive of my creative expression and drive, and my very survival, the experience was.
What I got was a sterling education from the best faculty of knowledgible, competant, and skilled artists/instructors one could ever want. I have carried and used the benefits of that excellent education throughout all aspects of my life, not just in art interactions, but in ctitical thinking, world-view, career, understanding people and cultures, and many other areas of functioning. My formal training was invaluable and has enhanced my creative expression and appreciation of crafts & art. It took nothing away from my innate creative drive, my ideas, my self-concept/identity, or my preferences for working with my materials. When someone is being derisive and dismissive of that "piece of paper" Old Lady's line comes to mind:  "putting you down does not raise me up." Or rather, putting me down does not raise you up.

I think that painting everyone with the same brush is inherently inaccurate.  I submit there are many people who do not justify their good fortune in earning a degree by assuming negative things about others who did not/were not able to go the same route.  Just because  someone is educated and has a degree, that does not automatically tell anybody anything about their life, their values, their struggles, their pain (or joy), their economic status (good or bad) or their politics/philosophy/world view. 
 I always wanted to study art and the creative process as expressed in this and other cultures, now and in history. The value of formal education in developing my skills in ceramics is worth 1000xs the price, for many reasons, and it is still paying off to this day.  As someone who earned a BFA from an esteemed art school, while on welfare and struggling mightily as a single parent with a toddler in tow, and 20 years older than the other students, in deep poverty, at times homeless, with many other crippling hardships, plus the add-on of student loans, I must assert how  enriching, valuable, freeing, and supportive of my creative expression and drive, and my very survival, the experience was.
What I got was a sterling education from the best faculty of knowledgible, competant, and skilled artists/instructors one could ever want. I have carried and used the benefits of that excellent education throughout all aspects of my life, not just in art interactions, but in ctitical thinking, world-view, career, understanding people and cultures, and many other areas of functioning. My formal training was invaluable and has enhanced my creative expression and appreciation of crafts & art. It took nothing away from my innate creative drive, my ideas, my self-concept/identity, or my preferences for working with my materials. When someone is being derisive and dismissive of that "piece of paper" Old Lady's line comes to mind:  "putting you down does not raise me up." Or rather, putting me down does not raise you up.

I think that painting everyone with the same brush is inherently inaccurate.  I submit there are many people who do not justify their good fortune in earning a degree by assuming negative things about others who did not/were not able to go the same route.  Just because  someone is educated and has a degree, that does not automatically tell anybody anything about their life, their values, their struggles, their pain (or joy), their economic status (good or bad) or their politics/philosophy/world view. 
 I always wanted to study art and the creative process as expressed in this and other cultures, now and in history. The value of formal education in developing my skills in ceramics is worth 1000xs the price, for many reasons, and it is still paying off to this day.  As someone who earned a BFA from an esteemed art school, while on welfare and struggling mightily as a single parent with a toddler in tow, and 20 years older than the other students, in deep poverty, at times homeless, with many other crippling hardships, plus the add-on of student loans, I must assert how  enriching, valuable, freeing, and supportive of my creative expression and drive, and my very survival, the experience was.
What I got was a sterling education from the best faculty of knowledgible, competant, and skilled artists/instructors one could ever want. I have carried and used the benefits of that excellent education throughout all aspects of my life, not just in art interactions, but in ctitical thinking, world-view, career, understanding people and cultures, and many other areas of functioning. My formal training was invaluable and has enhanced my creative expression and appreciation of crafts & art. It took nothing away from my innate creative drive, my ideas, my self-concept/identity, or my preferences for working with my materials. When someone is being derisive and dismissive of that "piece of paper" Old Lady's line comes to mind:  "putting you down does not raise me up." Or rather, putting me down does not raise you up.

There are many people who worry that learning common ways of doing things, or other people's ways of doing things, will keep them from discovering uncommon ways of doing things or a unique personal style. 
These are often the same people who believe that small children have better judgment and instincts than people who have been exposed to a range of other people's ideas.
I don't think there is any evidence that exposure to a range of ideas or techniques is stifling. More likely it is stimulating.
There are others who loathe formal education because they were either bored or humiliated by the particular education they received and generalize that to all formal education.
I have also encountered people who are convinced that formally educated people are less disposed to becoming life-long learners than people without formal education. I don't think there is any validity to this assumption.
The question of how much it is reasonable to go into debt or how much time it is reasonable to devote is entirely legitimate. There will also be people who have an exceptional alternative resource available to them that is uncommon, someone who is willing to devote all the time it takes to teach them privately. Most people will not have this option. 
I have taken two ceramics classes. One was an open studio sort of thing with lots of studio access but little instruction. The other involved formal instruction but no access other than during class time to practice space or equipment.
I learned much more from the second than from the first, but these experiences made me wish I had had an opportunity to take a class from a teacher over the course of a three or four month term in which I also had access to the studio to practice. At this point I am unlikely to be able to do that.
 
 
 

Almost half of adults have a college degree, I don't consider that to be elite by any standard.  If money is a barrier as a young adult, there is always time later in life to pursue a degree.  I was\am poor and will probably continue to be so, but later in life I decided to look into college and decided it was worth it.  I had to use grants and scholarships to afford school, had two infants at home, worked full time and ran a side business at the same time.  It was a tough 5 years, but it was worth it.  If money is the barrier there are many ways around it, and if you need help navigating the system let me know and I can help you.

Formal education is  a key element in the whole process. I was raised in a art friendy home by educators. I was exposed to ceramics in 5th grade and again in high school. It took hold of part of me and I do not know why. I went on and got an art degree in collage over a 5 year process. I happened to learn from recent graduates from the golden age of Alfred graduates who got their 1st teaching jobs. They learned from the greats-like Rhodes etc. I was at the right place right time. Also one could find materials on the cheap and build kilns and obtain permits may back then. Thats all changed now.
Back in school I fired gas and electrics worked as a tech and fired kilns for work study money-built kilns-made bricks learned clay and glaze formulation
did low fire and high fire and raku and pit firing-made sculpture and made functional wares. Only in school is one exposed to it all and to get all the knowledge one needs to see it all.U-tube cannot hold a candle too this experience.
School was the beginning of my learning experience -Really just a jump off point looking back. Its the foundation of my career but the real learning was in the real world of business and the sheer number of years it takes to get good and succeed .Throwing really well takes everyone different amounts of time to master-for me it was about 7 or eight years to get handles and forms perfected and have then sell well.
I'm a big believer in formal education-our society improves with formal education.
The only downside these days is ceramic education has been slashed nation wide and there has been at least a twenty year bias towards sculpt vs functional wares in many collage programs. You can now get a degree in what I call (jar opening) where you learn very little except low fire sculpture making.Finding a good school these days is work.

This serves to remind me how lucky I was.
My access to the studio was well worth the money I paid. The time spent  improved my understanding of ceramics from beginning to end. I left with a solid foundation to set up anywhere I can lay down cinderblocks.

I was lucky enough to get into a special pilot school in Seattle when I was a wee lad.  It was a school that focused on the arts instead of academics and I got a very thorough exposure to every art form you could dream of.  We had a giant ceramics studio as part of the school and that's where I started my obsession.  Was able to stay in that school for 7 years, did everything from candle making to screen printing, wood carving, performance art, painting, etc etc.  
We moved away when I was in 8th grade and my family decided to go the home school route after I had a difficult time adjusting to a traditional school.  I ended up going to college through an early entry program and took ceramics courses every quarter for two years. Loved it, volunteered all the time, had a key to the studio and covered dang near every aspect.  I really wish I had continued in that direction but I dropped out of school once I ran out of free credits.  
Fast forward 20 years and I went back to school for my computer science bachelor's, graduated last year.  I will say I use the knowledge and experience I gained in elementary and community college a whole lot more than I use the science I learned for my bachelor's.  Maybe my unstructured schooling as a child was totally different than traditional art classes but I wouldn't trade that hands on learning for anything.  I am a dental laboratory technician now, making dentures, and using those ingrained skills every day.  
Just early this year I was able to afford the space, time and money to get a wheel and build a kiln.  Back at it and it was like riding a bike.  So the value of education on ceramics?  Well, I have to say it is invaluable in my life. 
As far as calculus and organic chemistry are concerned, they're there because there is some minimum standard of knowledge by which an institution must adhere in order to issue credible certifications.  There isn't a specific degree for every possible field, so while I may not ever use calculus as a web developer, someone else with my degree who designs computer components may indeed use it.  I didn't mind learning new things, even if I was never going to use them again in my life.  I guess I am just curious enough to be a sucker for learning haha.
I don't understand animus towards schooling.  We have the luxuries we have today by building on the progress of the people before us, most of who are dead.  To not take advantage of that in one specific area (such as ceramics or design) out of some kind of personal principle seems like such a strange stance. And just because you have a solid foundation on which to start, doesn't mean you have some rule book you must adhere to.  Why be ignorant by nature when you can be ignorant on purpose!

Here's what's on mine today. In progress--carving the outer surface of what will be a lidded container, assuming all goes well. It's for an anagama fire in the fall--the clay is new to me--Sheffield's Z--which John Baymore recommended, and I just love it-can't wait to see how it fires.  I can afford maybe a half shelf, and I hope to have enough vertical pieces to get the most out of that type of fire.  The kiln, at the NHIA-Sharon Art Center was built by John & his students. I get to join in, provided there is available space, as part of the New Hampshire Institite of Art's public-access Community Education program.  Not shown is the banding wheel, a half dozen trimming tools, foam to  cushion the upside down lid w/knob, porcupine quill, hole cutter, a Chinese Lucky Cat wving his paw, and a large mug of fresh hot dark roast. 

WOW...where do I start? At this point I can't say that I have a favorite...actually, I think the splash pan is the fave since it keeps the throwing mess to a minimum...
I've built a heavy duty extruder and use 1/4" Lexan salvaged from a Sub-Zero refrigerator door to make the dies, a half dozen or more hacksaw blade trimming tools, a chattering tool from a piece of 1" heavy duty steel banding from a lumber yard, scratch tool from a piece of 5/16" brake line tubing, various cut-off wires, various bamboo/squirrel tail brushes, splash pan from the bottom of a plastic trash barrel, 3 banding wheels made from recycled ceiling fans...and these are just what comes to mind. I think my next BIG project will be to get an old trash masher and use the motor and screw drive to convert my extruder. As I spend more time in the studio with winter coming on, I'm sure there will be more things to fabricate to make my clay work easier.
I'll soon be posting a video showing how I made my last banding wheel from a ceiling fan. I'll also post pix to my gallery album of some of the afore mentioned tools.
JohnnyK

I asked the question because I get such support and inspiration from other people's journeys, learning about how they navigate difficulty, and how they keep their spirits up, or get through the hard times when spirit-lifting  just isn't happening.  I was frustrated with the strength needed (and some pain involved) to go through the whole physical process of cleaning kiln shelves, doing new kiln wash, loading them to fire it on, unloading to prep for a pending fire, needing to reload this weekend, etc. I am now saving every penny I can to buy lighter weight shelves, even tho I am a hobbyist with low volume and probably not needing to look too far down the road, either.  I also hit a wall of mental paralysis and stayed out of the studio too long, which came back to bite me, of course. And I completly neglected my website and lost what little traffic I was beginning to get. Worse, in terms of "acceptance" and developing "work-arounds" is the minor (relatively speaking) TBI that trips me up cognitively. It's getting worse (relatively speaking) by the minute. It's affecting my speech now, leaving me searching for words that I know, but half the time can't cough up. I end up substituting "thingee" for nouns when I come up empty and people look at me funny as the dead air goes on and on,  which is, at the very least, a tad annoying for all ocncerned!! Oh-and I am not dyslexic, but now find this letter reversal happening when I write--at least I can catch and correct that. Whine whine, moan, moan.  

Mostly grateful, tho not always, 'bout sums it up for me. I fought against making my first  "Gratitude List" so hard, it took weeks before I was even willing to acknowledge the positive presence of having all my fingers and toes. I am glad those days are gone, and I have some grasp of the imperative necessity of gratitude, which for me generates hope,  whether here and now or in reserve for somewhere in the great beyond, after the "tunnel of light".  I am amazed at the array of difficulties others have shared. Amazed at people being so forthcoming (and glad there was a place to put it on the Forum--thx Pres). There is so much distress that periodically accompanies my own physical and/or mental challenges, that I must take strength from the resiliency of others, and try to take caution from the actions of some who lost their battle, such as Anthony Bourdain--that one hit me hard. I don't know if it is factual that--as some suggest--creative people have more than their share of deep suffering and bedevilments, but it does seem to me that artistic beings bring an especially tenacious spirit to the game, and seem to express a heightened tenacity to overcome, and to do so with grace.  In terms of altering how I work in clay, just doing it tends to be feast or famine, so the striving for balance is the primary requisite if I want to keep on truckin'.  Among the tools in my tool box is this community, which is so generous & so supportive, way past simply sharing knowledge and expertise.    

When I first was learning to load my electric kiln (vs. the wonderfully huge gas kiln at college) I realized it wasn't as easy to plan the space as I thought.  All it took was one time of getting the thing almost loaded and then finding I had to disassemble it and redo it becasue there were some time sensitive pieces to be fired, which of course were the last ones and wouldn't fit. So I made myself mock shelves out of foam core. I was able to quickly plan out the load on the work table, accounting for height, and after a couple of times doing that, I pretty much get it done w/o the assist. The missing corner on the foam core is courtesy of the rat that moved in while I was on vacation. He ate my good woodfire gloves, the trim  on my best boots, chewed a hole in the wall to/from the outside , and would not leave until I took drastic measures.   For stuffers, I use the smallest of the smalls (incense cone holders/spoons) to fill the little spaces. No baked rodent, tempting as it was.

When I first was learning to load my electric kiln (vs. the wonderfully huge gas kiln at college) I realized it wasn't as easy to plan the space as I thought.  All it took was one time of getting the thing almost loaded and then finding I had to disassemble it and redo it becasue there were some time sensitive pieces to be fired, which of course were the last ones and wouldn't fit. So I made myself mock shelves out of foam core. I was able to quickly plan out the load on the work table, accounting for height, and after a couple of times doing that, I pretty much get it done w/o the assist. The missing corner on the foam core is courtesy of the rat that moved in while I was on vacation. He ate my good woodfire gloves, the trim  on my best boots, chewed a hole in the wall to/from the outside , and would not leave until I took drastic measures.   For stuffers, I use the smallest of the smalls (incense cone holders/spoons) to fill the little spaces. No baked rodent, tempting as it was.

When I first was learning to load my electric kiln (vs. the wonderfully huge gas kiln at college) I realized it wasn't as easy to plan the space as I thought.  All it took was one time of getting the thing almost loaded and then finding I had to disassemble it and redo it becasue there were some time sensitive pieces to be fired, which of course were the last ones and wouldn't fit. So I made myself mock shelves out of foam core. I was able to quickly plan out the load on the work table, accounting for height, and after a couple of times doing that, I pretty much get it done w/o the assist. The missing corner on the foam core is courtesy of the rat that moved in while I was on vacation. He ate my good woodfire gloves, the trim  on my best boots, chewed a hole in the wall to/from the outside , and would not leave until I took drastic measures.   For stuffers, I use the smallest of the smalls (incense cone holders/spoons) to fill the little spaces. No baked rodent, tempting as it was.

Oh dear---I apologize for writing "publically" (on impulse, when I was mad, of course) on the personal disability-related accomodations  issue I referenced in this thread. I should not have named the group--that is just as unfair as posting negatives about a named supplier when they aren't present to respond. 
I am ernestly requesting that anyone who has quoted from it (where the organization is named) would (please!) do me a personal courtesy and delete those as well.
This was just not the way or the place for me to grouse about a specific entity--I should have framed it in general, non-identifying, language. I would not want to spread negativity or do any harm to the group, which I like and support. I will deal with the issue-this just isn't where I should be discussing it.     (I really am just mortified...foot in mouth dis-ease!!)

Oh dear---I apologize for writing "publically" (on impulse, when I was mad, of course) on the personal disability-related accomodations  issue I referenced in this thread. I should not have named the group--that is just as unfair as posting negatives about a named supplier when they aren't present to respond. 
I am ernestly requesting that anyone who has quoted from it (where the organization is named) would (please!) do me a personal courtesy and delete those as well.
This was just not the way or the place for me to grouse about a specific entity--I should have framed it in general, non-identifying, language. I would not want to spread negativity or do any harm to the group, which I like and support. I will deal with the issue-this just isn't where I should be discussing it.     (I really am just mortified...foot in mouth dis-ease!!)

"If I lived nearby, I would do the eight hour shifts for you."
Me too.
As for what I think/feel/do regarding limitations, I'm very lucky to be able to adjust for weak and sore thumbs (and a few other minor problems).
In public settings, I can hold my breath and/or walk away when artificial fragrances loom. Unfortunately, it's not a "real thing" for many - my "doctor" (looking for a new one), my employer (former, retired early), ceramics instructor (so farr, staying upwind of the two stinkers is working; when the weather turns cold and the doors close, weelll, I'll just open the doors, or go home), etc.
I'm lucky!