QotW: When trimming pots how are your hands configured? Please explain.

[Pres]

Lately, I have been trimming patens for communion sets and realized that over the years there has been a change in my tooling habits. When I was younger, 50 years ago, I would trim with both hands, one holding the tool, and the other resting on top of the paten or pot and use the thumb as a guide in part for the hand holding the tool or directly on the tool. I believe this method of resting the hand on the pot came from the fact that I did not trust the clay chocks holding down the pot while I trimmed and wanted to have a hand there to catch it just in case it slid loose which would happen at times. Flash forward to today, what changed?  One thing different is the use of a Griffin Grip during the late 80's which I got at school for the kids to use. Then at home. Another change is the years of practice with the GG, and with chucks in the GG. For years now, I have been holding the tool in both hands. . . actually one holding the tool at the front the other holding the tool at the back. I use an open trimming tool for most work and have several variations. By holding the tool this way I find that I use the front hand to trim away the clay holding it at an angle on the pot, while the back hand steadies and  at time refines the angle of the cut by turning the handle slightly. Then again too maybe just maybe I hold it in two hands to make certain my older hands can hold it well. . . . NOT!

QotW: When trimming pots how are your hands configured? Please explain.

 

best,

Pres

[Min]

I rest fingertips from my left hand on the pot and trim tool with my right. I use a neoprene pad to trim 99% of my pots on, no Giffin Grip.

[Hulk]

Hmm, good question; I don't exactly remember!
We're all unpacked, partly put away and organized; the house part is looking homey, but the garage/studio is somewhat disaster.
The wheel is set up, throwing and trimming tools are handy; day afore yesterday I wiped out the wheel, rinsed off the buckets, sponges, and tools - ready to go!
Now I have a good reason to sit down and throw!

[Denice]

I trim like Min but I have never tried Griffin Grip or neoprene,  the neoprene sounds interesting.  I think I will give it a try next time I go on a throwing jag.  Right now I hold my pots down with clay.  When I had my kick wheel I liked to kick backwards when I was trimming,  I always felt like I had more control.   Denice

[Min]

1 hour ago, Denice said:

the neoprene sounds interesting.  I think I will give it a try next time I go on a throwing jag.  Right now I hold my pots down with clay

Clay wads not needed with neoprene to hold pots down, I don't know why more people don't use it.

[Pres]

Interesting how some folks seem to be trimming yet not aware of how they do the specifics.

Neoprene disc sounds good for some things. I think I'll look into them.  Still love the GG though with chucks made of plumbing pieces.

 

 

best,

Pres

[Callie Beller Diesel]

+1 for the Neoprene pad (the Xiem bat mate or a chamois/sham-wow). It’s a lot more stable than clay wads, and not as expensive as a GG. (Not hating on the GG, just not my thing.)

For trimming, the positioning is very similar to centring, but with a trimming tool. Firmly braced, both hands in contact whenever practical. Middle fingers of my non dominant hand are in the middle pressing gently down, dominant hand holds the tool. Dominant elbow is braced on the knee/torso. Clay is cut away with a sharp tool and a light touch. 

 

 

 

[Hulk]

There's room for the truck in the garage as of late yesterday afternoon! Both cars in the garage!!
My reward was to prepare some clay and throw some. This afternoon I trimmed and handled a few wares, first ever in the new house.

I throw and trim clockwise.
I use a small loop tool to start - trimming away the "rind" and some of the bulk near the bottom - then go to a pointer tool to establish the roundness of the foot ring and also the level base*; from there, it's all an L shaped trimming tool fashioned from a hack saw blade, where the end and both sides are sharpened all the way through the bend to the handle portion.

All three** tools I'm holding with my right hand in what I'll call a "pen" grip, where the thumb and forefinger tips meet over one side, and the other side rests against the middle  finger***. This grip is used when:

  working on the vertical/wall portion - along the portion of the pot between facing me and just left of there;
  defining the foot ring, again working the portion facing me and to the left of there;
  shaping the arc of the bottom, within the foot ring, on a diagonal from near the center toward my left shoulder, mostly;

where the angles of presentation changes via bend at the wrist and rotation of the lower arm.

I sit right up close to the wheel, where the lip of my low-slung chair seat is almost touching the wheel's leg/post.
My right arm rests on my right leg, hardly ever on the pan edge.

What I wasn't sure of - had to get to work to see - I support the right hand with my left, where my left thumb and forefinger are supporting the right thumb, or are supporting the tool, or both.  Left arm rests on the left leg, but also the edge of the splash pan (it's a heavy cast built in pan). Hence, the left hand steadying the spinning pot, I'm not doing that. I do the clay wads and chucks.
 

*The pointer helps me get a good start; it does not follow the counter of the pot. I don't see many potters using a point tool to trim. Try it, let me know.
**I'll use a larger loop, but not very often.
***For most of my life, I'd held a pen/pencil where my middle finger, pointer finger and thumb tips all meet over the top, and the other side supported against my ring  finger. No doubt I stopped doing that when I lost sensation on the little finger side of the last middle finger segment. I mostly forget there's no feeling there, as compensation is well established...

Edited November 16, 2023 by Hulk
minor edit, more minor edits, another!

[Pres]

Hmmmm @Hulk, you don't level the bottom of pots with a hack saw blade across the base? I use a hacksaw blade or a section of 1/2 '' band saw blade to level the base by holding the blade even across from edge to edge through the center perpendicular to the pot bottom. . . works really well, especially on chalice stems, mugs and other small items. I also use it on the bottom of patens and casseroles.

 

 

best,

Pres

[Kelly in AK]

Left hand holds the tool, right hand is touching  left as well as the tool closer to the blade, backing it up. I didn’t learn to rest my fingers on the pot, so I rarely do. In the last five years I started doing a thing I saw Simon Leach do- put a few drops of water on the wheelhead, center your pot, push down a bit, and trim.  If you’ve used the right amount of water it’ll stay put through trimming. It takes a few tries to get the hang of, but I almost never use wads anymore.  Brilliant for bowls.

One of these days I’m going to learn to tap center. One of these days. 

[Bill Kielb]

My arms are fairly long -36” so depending on the piece always braced at my side someway but comfortable. I will steady and touch the piece as lightly as possible with non dominant. I stick the piece to the wheel head - couple drops of water. I try and throw and pre trim as much as practical though so most of my trimming is a minute or two.

I do square everything first though, sticking the pot right side up first, knowing the bottom (when cut off the wheel) was perfectly parallel to the wheel head. I very lightly trim the top (and finish the rim) first just to make sure it is dead parallel to the bottom. Then flip it over, trim the foot and done. No wads or GG anymore - just too lazy if I can avoid. Throw as close to finished as possible, saves on clay / trimming, is good practice for me and dries very evenly from top to bottom. 

Almost all my throwing is on the wheel and not a batt, pots are pre dried a few revolutions before removal with light heat if larger bowls, cut off and set on commercial (cheap / recycled ) paper towel on ware board or old batt (lots of spare batts now). Everything dries quickly and evenly with the paper towel underneath, if I have thrown evenly and close to finished. Never flip most anything anymore, no sticking to a batt pulling my pot out of round, don’t cover many things except overnight if I can trim that day. Cover with bucket instead of plastic if possible - again a bit about being efficient or maybe lazy. Usually throw and trim many shapes, same day if possible.

Edited May 18, 2023 by Bill Kielb

[Callie Beller Diesel]

13 hours ago, Kelly in AK said:

One of these days I’m going to learn to tap center

Practice with a coffee can/other round container that you can put a little weight into (some form of dry clay/grog) that mimics the weight of a pot. 

[Hulk]

Aye
I liked Florian Gadsby's video clip on tap centering, mainly because he's tapping the whole time, which gets across the idea to practice practice practice
How to Tap Centre Pots on the Potter's Wheel - YouTube
It does work for me! ...part of the time, like throwing a ball, serving in tennis or racquetball, et cetera, there's the too frequent exception, heh, I just can't reliably do some things, at some angles, anymore. When I turn sideways so I'm tapping with my body and head lined up with the wheel head (horizontal) I can tap center like a boss ...not practical, however.

 

Edited May 20, 2023 by Hulk
clarity

[Pres]

I still tap center when doing small things, like mugs when I don't have a GG to work with. Use a sponged amount of water on the wheel head and tap into place, but then this is where my tendency to use the left hand resting on the top of the piece came from. This is the wedding band finger mostly with the small finger following. The others help guide the trimming tool. @Hulkon some pieces where I have a bit of rough trimming, I reverse the wheel and use the back of the trimming tool to burnish some of the roughness out.

 

best,

Pres

[Min]

I was trimming pots today so I took a couple pics of the neoprene disc I trim on. Damp sponge on the wheelhead then plunk the neoprene on and another swipe to dampen the top.  I make a couple guide circles with my finger on the neoprene to help center the pot. I've been using the same disc for about 30 years. Sometimes the pot sticks so well I have to burp the edge of the disc to release the pot. I think the current cost is about $8 for one of these from Seattle Pottery Supply. (they come with an adhesive back now to put on a batt)

 

[neilestrick]

On 5/17/2023 at 6:55 AM, Pres said:

Interesting how some folks seem to be trimming yet not aware of how they do the specifics.

Teaching did more to improve my throwing skills than just about anything else, because I was forced to analyze everything I was doing in order to explain it to my students- hand position, body position, pressure, how I was holding tools, tool angle, wheel speed, etc, etc, etc. It was especially great for consistency, because once I could define exactly what I was doing I was able to repeat it every time.

[Pres]

Much of my teaching career was like being a good coach. You had to analyze the strengths and weaknesses of each student while they were working and pinpoint behavior/motions that would not allow them to succeed or improve and correct them in such a way that they understood without them becoming frustrated with your coaching or the task at hand.

 

best,

Pres