neilestrick Posted November 30, 2021 Report Share Posted November 30, 2021 I like these connectors, but I can only find them through a couple of kiln parts suppliers, and they're bound to be cheaper elsewhere. They're easier to use than a split bolt. Online I can find copper lugs that have this as part of a lug assembly, but not just this part alone. Is there a specific name for them? @Bill Kielb do you know? I even tried a Google image search and came up empty. I'd like to keep some in my tool box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted November 30, 2021 Report Share Posted November 30, 2021 https://lugsdirect.com/BuyRecognizedCollarConnectors.htm ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadenrank Posted November 30, 2021 Report Share Posted November 30, 2021 6 minutes ago, neilestrick said: I like these connectors, but I can only find them through a couple of kiln parts suppliers, and they're bound to be cheaper elsewhere. They're easier to use than a split bolt. Online I can find copper lugs that have this as part of a lug assembly, but not just this part alone. Is there a specific name for them? @Bill Kielb do you know? I even tried a Google image search and came up empty. I'd like to keep some in my tool box. I believe these were ConeArt's model of element connectors. https://www.theceramicshop.com/product/24479/coneart-element-connector/ has a similar version, just with a hex head on it vs. a flat head. They're about $4 each. I recently installed TheCeramicShop's version of it in my kiln, and was very satisfied with using them, and so far how they've held up. They use the flat head. They're zinc coated copper, and are $5.50 for a pair. https://www.theceramicshop.com/product/24496/element-connectors/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted November 30, 2021 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2021 27 minutes ago, cadenrank said: I believe these were ConeArt's model of element connectors. https://www.theceramicshop.com/product/24479/coneart-element-connector/ has a similar version, just with a hex head on it vs. a flat head. They're about $4 each. I recently installed TheCeramicShop's version of it in my kiln, and was very satisfied with using them, and so far how they've held up. They use the flat head. They're zinc coated copper, and are $5.50 for a pair. https://www.theceramicshop.com/product/24496/element-connectors/ Yeah, they're super expensive from the ceramics companies, so I'm trying to find them elsewhere. They're not specific to kilns, so they should be out there somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted November 30, 2021 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2021 33 minutes ago, Chilly said: https://lugsdirect.com/BuyRecognizedCollarConnectors.htm ??? Those might work. Might be a little big. I'll look through that site, though. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hulk Posted November 30, 2021 Report Share Posted November 30, 2021 Try "lug mechanical connector" or "mechanical lug" or somewhat like (see also "split bolt connector") CO5RP ILSCO COPPER BOX-TYPE MECHANICAL LUG - 1/0-6AWG (kellyhayes.com) See also Steiner Electric. Many choices include a drilled tab for fastening; if you can live with the tab (else, cut it off), there are many choices. Lugs direct, heh. Single Wire Lugs, 1 Wire Termination per Lug on LugsDirect.com Time to get out an' ride! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted November 30, 2021 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2021 11 minutes ago, Hulk said: Try "lug mechanical connector" or "mechanical lug" or somewhat like (see also "split bolt connector") CO5RP ILSCO COPPER BOX-TYPE MECHANICAL LUG - 1/0-6AWG (kellyhayes.com) See also Steiner Electric. Many choices include a drilled tab for fastening; if you can live with the tab (else, cut it off), there are many choices. Lugs direct, heh. Single Wire Lugs, 1 Wire Termination per Lug on LugsDirect.com Time to get out an' ride! There's a million of them out there with the tab, just trying to find them without so I don't have to toss something. The box lugs are a possibility, but these get good compression on the wire with the angled bottom. I found them once a few months back but neglected to bookmark the page and can't remember the specific name. Once I had the right name they showed up in several search results. I've tried every combination of related words I can think of and no luck for this specific lug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted November 30, 2021 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2021 I found them as 'Copper Service Entrance Lug', but they are pricey! Funny how there's less metal in them but they cost 3X more than the ones with the tab. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Posted November 30, 2021 Report Share Posted November 30, 2021 Copper grounding lug .. I know Home Depot has them but they fit a half inch ground rod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted December 1, 2021 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2021 17 minutes ago, Rockhopper said: What size wires are you connecting ? I'm thinking anything that's listed as 'service entrance' is going to be for a fairly large wire. Those that are listed as 14-6AWG fit an element pigtail and #12 feeder wire nicely. The 14-4AWG will fit two feeder wires and a pigtail. THIS place has service entrance lugs in all sorts of sizes, but they cost twice as much as the other lugs. That site also has the ones with the tab for only $1.14 each. I don't know what the difference is that makes the ones with the tab cheaper than the others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Kielb Posted December 1, 2021 Report Share Posted December 1, 2021 6 hours ago, neilestrick said: I found them as 'Copper Service Entrance Lug', but they are pricey! Funny how there's less metal in them but they cost 3X more than the ones with the tab. Sorry - just saw this I have never really searched but would have called them mechanical parallel splice connectors. That doesn’t work though. Even downloaded the Burndy catalog, no luck. I like those connectors but do find them too thin for higher loaded elements. I found they start to degrade on certain hottest of hot loads unless they can get cooled effectively such as extended element tails just to help cool them. Have seen the very top lugs start to fail on the larger cone arts and resorted to get them more centrally in the cooling airstream with a longer element tail and maybe an offset to the connection when space allows. I like the lugs direct site but also from it, discovered why they fail after reading how they are rated. Nice site! Here is a little about why these are probably not the best use for elements unless they can be kept 75-90c max. Testing of connectors by UL and CSA and other accredited test labs includes a 500 cycle, over current, accelerated aging stress test on these connectors. There is a disqualification of the test if the temperature rises over 125C above ambient test temperature. 125C is not a recommended maximum operating temperature but a guide for perspective. Generally, a connector that rises in temperature by 125C in free air would often fail the 500 cycles test, somewhere between 100C-125C rise over ambient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted December 1, 2021 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2021 5 minutes ago, Bill Kielb said: I like those connectors but do find them too thin for higher loaded elements. Would a split bolt hold up better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyK Posted December 1, 2021 Report Share Posted December 1, 2021 A split bolt should hold up a lot better because there is more meat to the parts. It might be difficult to find them ion the size you want. As for why the lugs with tabs are cheaper might be because there are more of them produced. When used with the tabs screwed down, they are heat-sinked... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark C. Posted December 1, 2021 Report Share Posted December 1, 2021 cut the tab off-very cheap Zoro is easy to deal with and shipping is free on larger orders-bought a lot of electrical stuff from them on my 9.6kw solar ground array .Sometimes the best wire prices as well-they have coupons in the mail once you are a customer-20% off https://www.zoro.com/blackburn-mechanical-conn-strght-tang-6-to-14-awg-stc0614/i/G1924282/feature-product?utm_source=google&utm_medium=surfaces&utm_campaign=shopping feed&utm_content=free google shopping clicks&gclid=Cj0KCQiAtJeNBhCVARIsANJUJ2HGo1B3faWPtCvO9-3kgvNYFwRvdutBgCQPrFa4wG_jaf6JAH_nDEUaAhePEALw_wcB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Kielb Posted December 1, 2021 Report Share Posted December 1, 2021 1 hour ago, neilestrick said: Would a split bolt hold up better? I really have not found a solution, the split bolts don’t tighten the greatest in my use, especially for small diameter wires. My speculation which seems confirmed by the rating thing above is the copper will always suck heat away better than the Kanthal so heavier (more mass ) likely means storing more heat, not so much cooling the splice. Bigger surface area means more cooling and would be great, but what to use for bigger? so for the top elements when they keep failing prematurely, I settled on leaving a longer element tail and bending it away from the radiant kiln and getting it into as cool an airstream as possible. I used to snug them very close, I think that was a mistake. The extra element tail seems to take quite a few degrees off cooled by the air and they last a lot longer before discoloring severely. In other words I have not found a great solution. Use the L&L method. A bit of a pain, but it works really good with screws and washers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted December 1, 2021 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2021 11 hours ago, Bill Kielb said: I really have not found a solution, the split bolts don’t tighten the greatest in my use, especially for small diameter wires. I agree completely. I never feel like they get tight so I tend to avoid them. A lot of old kilns with smaller gauge elements used to just bend the pigtail into a circle, insert a #10 bolt through it with a washer on each side, then attached the feeder wire with a ring terminal. It worked really well, but it's difficult to do with thicker elements. I like Paragon's connectors, but they're pricey too. I've considered making my own, but the time factor doesn't make them any cheaper. I hate crimp connectors because they don't allow for feeder wire replacement without either cutting off the connector or doing something shim-sham like using a split bolt around the connector (bad). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Kielb Posted December 1, 2021 Report Share Posted December 1, 2021 25 minutes ago, neilestrick said: A lot of old kilns with smaller gauge elements used to just bend the pigtail into a circle, insert a #10 bolt through it with a washer on each side, then attached the feeder wire with a ring terminal. It worked really well, but it's difficult to do with thicker elements. I actually still like that but find I need to break out the torch to loop for a nice neat fit. The next guy is probably not happy as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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