Put a 3.3 cubic coneart kiln into a 45 sq. ft bathroom, yes or no?

[Kaka]

Hello friends, 

 

I am new to ceramic! Need help!!

I have a Coneare 1822D (3.3 cubic, alittle bit larger than skirt 818) coming by the end of Aug. I have been thinking about where to put it for half year;( 

There is a 9.4’ x 5.1’ bathroom(no one use) in my commercial studio, ceiling height is 11’, no window to outside, a normal fan on the ceiling, the flooring is tile. Wire is ok. 

I’ve seen youtuber put their kilns in the bathroom, get really close with everything, no window but still working fine.
 

Please give me more professional suggestions, I have no where else to put. I rent a place, this bathroom belongs to my commercial studio, I don’t live here or use this bathroom, just work here. 
 

Thank you! 

[Bill Kielb]

If I read the spec correctly for this kiln, this is 12000+ watts, so…. Something like 28 amps @ 240v…… so

Well, you are gonna be generating about 10000 - 18000 btu per hour from midfire on so if you have 70 degree makeup air from the house and you want to limit the temperature of the bathroom to be let’s say 100 degrees then you will need approximately 555 CFM of  pure exhaust. A regular bath fan is realistically 50 - 80 cfm with 80 cfm being optimistic for most fans. This means it’s gonna be very hot in your bathroom. 70 degree makeup air BTW is pretty cool so assuming your ac unit will be doing all the cooling it’s about an extra ton  (12000 btu/hr) to ton and a half per hour. But your AC unit needs to account for the latent (dehumidifying) load of the outside air so my quick guess is 2-4 tons per hour.

Its tough to operate one of these in a small space so you may end up with an overheated condition that is just not acceptable. All this theory is great but you won’t know till you try, I just think likely you will have trouble with the heat.

[Dick White]

You say "Wire is ok." Are you specifically saying you have a 40 amp (8ga wire) 240V circuit in that bathroom?

[neilestrick]

Is there any reason it can't go somewhere else in the studio? Are you the only one in the studio?

[Hulk]

Heat, yes, and fumes

[Min]

I would also run this idea past the studio manager for insurance purposes.

[Kaka]

On 7/29/2021 at 4:42 PM, Bill Kielb said:

If I read the spec correctly for this kiln, this is 12000+ watts, so…. Something like 28 amps @ 240v…… so

Well, you are gonna be generating about 10000 - 18000 btu per hour from midfire on so if you have 70 degree makeup air from the house and you want to limit the temperature of the bathroom to be let’s say 100 degrees then you will need approximately 555 CFM of  pure exhaust. A regular bath fan is realistically 50 - 80 cfm with 80 cfm being optimistic for most fans. This means it’s gonna be very hot in your bathroom. 70 degree makeup air BTW is pretty cool so assuming your ac unit will be doing all the cooling it’s about an extra ton  (12000 btu/hr) to ton and a half per hour. But your AC unit needs to account for the latent (dehumidifying) load of the outside air so my quick guess is 2-4 tons per hour.

Its tough to operate one of these in a small space so you may end up with an overheated condition that is just not acceptable. All this theory is great but you won’t know till you try, I just think likely you will have trouble with the heat.

Hello Bill! I really appreciate your advice and theory!  I think I will reconsider the location;) 

[Kaka]

On 7/29/2021 at 5:41 PM, Dick White said:

You say "Wire is ok." Are you specifically saying you have a 40 amp (8ga wire) 240V circuit in that bathroom?

Hello there, yes, we are in commercial area, our bathroom is right beside the board room, sharing the same wall. My electrician has the wire plan for the kiln. I will reconsider the location anyways. Lol

[Kaka]

On 7/29/2021 at 6:42 PM, neilestrick said:

Is there any reason it can't go somewhere else in the studio? Are you the only one in the studio?

Here there, I am selling my house by the end of year, I want a space that last long enough……and I am the only one in my studio.

[Kaka]

16 hours ago, Hulk said:

Heat, yes, and fumes

Ahhh, I need reconsider the location lol 

[Kaka]

16 hours ago, Min said:

I would also run this idea past the studio manager for insurance purposes.

lol there is only ME in my studio, I hurt myself rather than others! 

[Min]

8 hours ago, Kaka said:

lol there is only ME in my studio, I hurt myself rather than others! 

And if the building burns down?

It's uncommon for there to be a fire from an electric kiln but it does happen.

[neilestrick]

With proper clearances (16" or more from walls and/or flammable objects) the kiln will be very safe in terms of fire safety. Venting is more complicated because you have vent fumes and heat. Venting fumes is 100% required. Venting heat will depend on the size of the space and the size of the kiln. I've got my kilns in a 1200SF space, so venting heat is not a big issue unless it's very hot outside. A properly sized fan can vent both fumes and heat, but any venting system requires you to run a duct to the outside, either through a wall, a window, or the roof. A bathroom fan would not be large enough for any kiln other than a tiny test kiln.

The bathroom could work if it's big enough to have the safe clearances, but you'd need to install a proper venting system. Is there a window near the bathroom that a duct would be run to? A Vent-A-Kiln hood would be ideal for the bathroom setup, and you can run 10 feet of ducting for the exit, more if it's a straight line.

[Kaka]

On 7/31/2021 at 10:26 AM, neilestrick said:

With proper clearances (16" or more from walls and/or flammable objects) the kiln will be very safe in terms of fire safety. Venting is more complicated because you have vent fumes and heat. Venting fumes is 100% required. Venting heat will depend on the size of the space and the size of the kiln. I've got my kilns in a 1200SF space, so venting heat is not a big issue unless it's very hot outside. A properly sized fan can vent both fumes and heat, but any venting system requires you to run a duct to the outside, either through a wall, a window, or the roof. A bathroom fan would not be large enough for any kiln other than a tiny test kiln.

The bathroom could work if it's big enough to have the safe clearances, but you'd need to install a proper venting system. Is there a window near the bathroom that a duct would be run to? A Vent-A-Kiln hood would be ideal for the bathroom setup, and you can run 10 feet of ducting for the exit, more if it's a straight line.

Hello there! I am really appreciate your advices! I am considering put my kiln in my backyard since I don’t have enough space/clearance in my house. However, the electric panel is far away from my yard, and my kiln need to be hardwired. Is that a problem if I use a long wire to connect the panel and the kiln. (I will for sure let a licensed electrician to do it! ) Please give me some professional advices, thank you!  

[Bill Kielb]

4 hours ago, Kaka said:

Please give me some professional advices, thank you!  

The only advice that strikes me with kilns and most electricians is limiting voltage drop for the length. Electricians typically use 3%, I usually suggest 1% or less as kilns only have about 10% excess capacity with brand new elements. Every percent counts! The other mistake I see is calculating the voltage drop which is double the measured distance, not just the distance. The electrons need to come and go along the entire path. The last common mistake I see made is not understanding a portion of the code (in the US and mostly North America) that requires (for kilns) the breaker to be not less than 125% of the full load and not more than 150%.  This code protects the breaker from overheating for this type of unique potentially continuous load. So larger gauge wire  not smaller as practical is the suggestion, and proper breaker sizing seem to be common misunderstandings.

[oldlady]

kaka, in this discussion, i notice that you only plan to use this kiln for about less than 4  months.   in that time can you estimate how often you will fill it and fire?  if you are only talking about less than 8 firings, just over 2 weeks apart or much more often, the answer might be different.   since you are new to ceramics, your production of work to fire may be so low that using the bathroom as is might be OK for that amount of work.  if it is an industrial building, perhaps leaving the door open and a large fan outside it might be enough if you fire at off peak times.  

do you already have pots waiting for that first firing?  the kiln has an interior of 18 inches wide by 22 deep if i read it correctly.  a fairly small amount of heat and fumes would be generated.

[Chilly]

My kiln is in my greenhouse, and it too is far from a plug.  I have it hard-wired into a long length of "arctic-quality" cable, with a caravan plug on the end.  My electrician placed a caravan socket on the house wall, wired directly into the fuse board.  This way I can roll-out the cable when I need to fire and put it away after.  I only fire a few times a year.

[Kaka]

3 hours ago, oldlady said:

kaka, in this discussion, i notice that you only plan to use this kiln for about less than 4  months.   in that time can you estimate how often you will fill it and fire?  if you are only talking about less than 8 firings, just over 2 weeks apart or much more often, the answer might be different.   since you are new to ceramics, your production of work to fire may be so low that using the bathroom as is might be OK for that amount of work.  if it is an industrial building, perhaps leaving the door open and a large fan outside it might be enough if you fire at off peak times.  

do you already have pots waiting for that first firing?  the kiln has an interior of 18 inches wide by 22 deep if i read it correctly.  a fairly small amount of heat and fumes would be generated.

Hello there, thanks for your reply! Yes I have lots of green ware are waiting for the bisque firing and then glaze firing…I am thinking fire biweekly or monthly with full loading (30-40 small pots per load? I am not sure) not too often. Fresh air is my only concern. Will the fume smells bad when firing? 

[Kaka]

1 hour ago, Chilly said:

My kiln is in my greenhouse, and it too is far from a plug.  I have it hard-wired into a long length of "arctic-quality" cable, with a caravan plug on the end.  My electrician placed a caravan socket on the house wall, wired directly into the fuse board.  This way I can roll-out the cable when I need to fire and put it away after.  I only fire a few times a year.

Hello there! Thanks for your reply! I have the exactly same situation as you! I think your case is a great reference to me, I will let my electrician know! 

[Kaka]

9 hours ago, Bill Kielb said:

The only advice that strikes me with kilns and most electricians is limiting voltage drop for the length. Electricians typically use 3%, I usually suggest 1% or less as kilns only have about 10% excess capacity with brand new elements. Every percent counts! The other mistake I see is calculating the voltage drop which is double the measured distance, not just the distance. The electrons need to come and go along the entire path. The last common mistake I see made is not understanding a portion of the code (in the US and mostly North America) that requires (for kilns) the breaker to be not less than 125% of the full load and not more than 150%.  This code protects the breaker from overheating for this type of unique potentially continuous load. So larger gauge wire  not smaller as practical is the suggestion, and proper breaker sizing seem to be common misunderstandings.

Hello Bill! Oh my god you gave so much details and seems too professional to me to understand lol!  I will copy&paste your words to my electrician! Sooo helpful!! Thank you!! 

[oldlady]

kaka, firing the kiln is a very long process.   it takes hours to move the clay from just dry clay to a ceramic product.   during those hours, the materials in the clay are heated to temperatures that will burn out many things.  some will cause fumes that the very well informed members here know about.   i do not have the chemistry background that can define what is bad for you among those ingredients.   i do know the fumes are not constant during the firing process.   that is why i suggested your firing be done when nobody is around to breathe in the fumes.

once you fire the bisque, the possibility of additional bad fumes exist because you are adding glaze ingredients to the next firing.  you have not said how big the whole space is so nobody can figure out if there is enough space that the fumes will dissipate before you return to the space after the firing.

[neilestrick]

Is there nowhere else you can put it in your studio that would allow it to be next to a window? Maybe use the bathroom for storage and move some things into there to make space for the kiln?

[Kaka]

1 hour ago, neilestrick said:

Is there nowhere else you can put it in your studio that would allow it to be next to a window? Maybe use the bathroom for storage and move some things into there to make space for the kiln?

Good morning Bill, unfortunately no… To be honest there is no window there. My studio is more like a retail shop, in between other shops, it is a narrow rectangle and one front door to the outside, one back door to the indoor parking. The bathroom is the best location for it because there are many circulating exhaust fans in our main area and air conditioning. I am thinking I probably need to rent another light industrial space to put my kiln. My kiln is still on the way and expected by the end of Aug….Will that be smell really bad when glaze firing? 

[Kaka]

13 hours ago, oldlady said:

kaka, firing the kiln is a very long process.   it takes hours to move the clay from just dry clay to a ceramic product.   during those hours, the materials in the clay are heated to temperatures that will burn out many things.  some will cause fumes that the very well informed members here know about.   i do not have the chemistry background that can define what is bad for you among those ingredients.   i do know the fumes are not constant during the firing process.   that is why i suggested your firing be done when nobody is around to breathe in the fumes.

once you fire the bisque, the possibility of additional bad fumes exist because you are adding glaze ingredients to the next firing.  you have not said how big the whole space is so nobody can figure out if there is enough space that the fumes will dissipate before you return to the space after the firing.

Good morning Madam, the whole space is about 1500 Sqft. Bath room is about 45. However we have a lot of other things around and the bath room is the only space that can make clearance from the kiln to the wall. I think I will consider to relocate the kiln… Well you are right, firing is hard for beginners, and a long process to go, I am still on my very first step.  I hope I can figure this out before my kiln arrives… I am really appreciate your replies! Really helpful! 

[neilestrick]

The kiln has to be vented if it's indoors. It's a health/safety issue. In most commercial spaces I've dealt with, the kiln is vented out through the roof rather than through a wall or window. Any chance you already have a roof penetration that you can use?