Setting up a studio in an old horse barn -- what to do about a dirt floor?

[mountainwitch]

Hi everyone,

I've recently come into possession of an old horse barn (!) and have hopes of slowly turning it into a ceramics studio. Right now it's still very...horsey. But it has both water and electric so I think I at least have a good starting point.

My question is -- has anyone worked in a studio with a dirt floor before? I can foresee some issues, especially with wet areas turning to mud... 

I don't really have a budget right now to pour a cement floor. Anyone have any advice? 

Thanks!

[Denice]

The big box stores put concrete pavers on sale in the spring and even cheaper in the fall.    If you decide to pour a concrete floor you can always use the pavers on a outdoors project.  A easier solution would be the big horse barn mats,  you don't need to cover the whole area.      You might keep a eye on craigslist for cheap or free pavers.    Denice

[neilestrick]

Use mats of some sort, or put down a sheet of vinyl flooring, weighted at the edges.

[oldlady]

welcome to the forums!  i was in boonsboro yesterday buying flowers from those two nurseries and lunch at the ACT.  hello, neighbor. 

my kiln room has a dirt floor.  my daughter put down a plywood floor which has over the 18 years shifted just enough to trip me.  but it works for a kiln room.

alone,  vinyl flooring will tear, it has no strength as a flat slab, any heavy item will press it down into the dirt and tear.  if the surface is very flat, you are lucky.  pavers work well if the soil is flat, if not, each edge will catch your foot and trip you as you are carrying your most valuable possession.

when you can afford it, rent a heavy roller.  the vehicle type used in road building is best and have someone flatten the interior as compactly as possible.   you could then pour a little area of concrete for your heavy items, wheel, slab roller, work table, etc.  price out one truckload and ask how much square footage it will cover in your area and inside a barn.  it might be less than you think.   the rest can stay dirt for a long time.  adding slabs of concrete one at a time adjacent to the one already there will allow you to get as much of it finished as fast as the budget allows.   

[shawnhar]

On 4/24/2021 at 7:46 AM, mountainwitch said:

I don't really have a budget right now to pour a cement floor. Anyone have any advice? 

Thanks!

The cheapest option is to get some free wood palates (from cragslist or ask around town) to make a sub-floor and then screw plywood on top of them. 

I would avoid a dirt floor, too much chance of the dirt contaminating the clay and/or glaze.

[Denice]

You would have to level the floor some using pavers most people use sand.    Not a good time to go for cement,  it has quadrupled in price.  We are building a 700ft storage garage,  it has a 30 ft drive way and the cement cost is $20,000 dollars.   There is so much building going on now because of the pandemic that anything associated with it has skyrocketed in price, especially wood.  Denice

[VermontPotter]

On 4/24/2021 at 7:46 AM, mountainwitch said:

Hi everyone,

I've recently come into possession of an old horse barn (!) and have hopes of slowly turning it into a ceramics studio. Right now it's still very...horsey. But it has both water and electric so I think I at least have a good starting point.

My question is -- has anyone worked in a studio with a dirt floor before? I can foresee some issues, especially with wet areas turning to mud... 

I don't really have a budget right now to pour a cement floor. Anyone have any advice? 

Thanks!

Hi!  I have been perusing this site in an attempt to get pointers about setting up a studio and came upon your somewhat old post but , here goes....

I am gathering you are still struggling with an idea here? Here is my idea, and it may be a terrible one but I'm going with it. As others have suggested, rake out the area flat as you can. Then try renting one of those dirt compacters, the ones you see folks use on sites before pouring concrete. This will compact the floor. Oh, and before you do this...if your floor is full of horse poop that absorbs moisture, add some sprinkled sand on top. Ok, kinda silly. Then buy some Underlayment sheathing/plywood. It sometimes goes by the word Luan. These are less expensive, this sheets of plywood that have resins built into them allowing them to be moisture stable in exterior environments. They are thin but could be a good option. If you have a number of them you could obtain some Zip system flashing tape or similar to tape the seams (and roll) between sheathing pieces.  It's a crazy idea but you could incorporate with the whole wood palettes thing or just do alone? Hope this helps. 

[Babs]

There are rammed earth floors which use horse poo in the mix , they can be oil sealed.

[hitchmss]

Ive been in some studios that have been in operation for decades and have always been dirt floors. Lots of downfalls to this IMO, but obviously, those potters made it work; not for me though. Id rake, rent a plate compacter, then lay planking/sheet vinyl/etc to give you some kind of surface other than dirt. You could also spread #8 limestone chips as flat as possible, compact again, and then screed limestone dust over it; wet lightly with hose, and compact once again. Will give you a pseudo like concrete effect, with a lot less cost.

[Kimani]

I saw this topic a while ago and thought of Euan Craig's description of his studio in Japan.

I've just found his blog post about it ..

Link and quote from ... 

https://euancraig.blogspot.com/2011/10/close-to-home.html

Quote

Entering the "Genkan" entry hall there is the fragrance of damp earth. I call out "Tadaima!" to the empty house, the customary Japanese "I'm home!", and slide the door closed behind me. To the right is the wood furnace for the bath, then the bathroom and pit toilet beyond. To the left is the kitchen and living space. In front of me is the new studio, half earth floor, half wooden deck. This was the work space for the farm. In the back corner are the old stables, partly filled with rotting firewood. Shimaoka sensei's studio smelt like this, a musty aroma, the fragrance of a freshly opened bag of clay. This room smells like a pottery. A dirt floor maintains an even humidity, allowing pots to dry evenly, and prevents dust from gathering thus averting the danger of silicosis. It is also easier to stand on for long working periods than a concrete floor.

 

[Pyewackette]

@VermontPotter What I know as luan would definitely not last but a couple of weeks under those conditions.  Even 3/4" CDX plywood (rated for external use) would delaminate, shift and crack more quickly than the expense would warrant.

Instead build a deck-like structure - sink 4x4 posts 2' deep (this will be below frost line in many areas but not all but should suffice for some time even if it does shift some later).  If you want to get serious get sonatubes sunk below frost depth, fill with concrete and use those as the supports for your floor.  Attach floor joists.  Use pressure treated wood for posts and joists.

Exterior grade plywood is $77 per sheet. That's $2.40 per sft.

1/2" Hardiebacker is about $15 here, or about $1 per sft.  Comes in 3x5 sheets.

My idea is, and it is majorly klugey, that you could sheath your floor with 1/2" hardiebacker with the CDX plywood underneath where you will have heavy equipment sitting. I would suggest putting the joists on 1' centers instead of 16" to accommodate the 3x5 sheet size - so you would always have a joist to attach to.  Use the screws made specifically for hardiebacker installation.

Hardiebacker is NOT rated for use AS the subfloor and I wouldn't put a kiln or pugmill or other heavy equipment on 1/2" Hardiebacker with nothing under it (like the CDX plywood).  And using the plywood only under the spots where you will place heavy equipment will result in lippage and present a tripping hazard if you chose to try to sheath the rest of the floor with 1/2" Hardiebacker alone (topped with sheet vinyl, obviously NOT under the kiln).  With joists on 12" centers that alleviates some of the shortcomings of Hardiebacker compared to plywood for an actual subfloor but not totally. It would be WAY better than laying luan directly on dirt, but "it could be worse" is not the same as "this is fine".

You could also just deck the non-load bearing portions as for a deck. That should support the weight of things like a wheel or work table. Given that the area is covered and not prone to flooding. For a small area as a temporary solution it could at least get you in the ballpark until materials prices come down - which I'm not sure they ever will, very much. 

Or, having gone to all the trouble of sinking supports below frost depth, just frame in a "normal" floor and have done.  I wouldn't do that if you skimp on the frost depth though, for an expanse of any extent it will pretty quickly become uneven.  You could still have moisture issues if the floor hugs the ground too closely and ventilation is poor.  This wouldn't be the same as a "crawl space" under a normal pole frame building unless you did additional work to make it so, which I wouldn't even TRY to go into here.  EG not a good idea to do just this much over the entire interior space, but just enough to provide safe harbor for your equipment from the dirt and to access such safely when in use, you might get away with it. 

[Mark_H]

I think the cheapest would be compacted road base gravel, until a concrete slab can be an option.  Oh, frost . . . maybe take snow people's advice rather than mine

 

[Bill Kielb]

On 4/24/2021 at 6:46 AM, mountainwitch said:

I don't really have a budget right now to pour a cement floor. Anyone have any advice? 

Stone is generally the easy fix and could be the sub grade for a new slab later. I think I would dig it out and properly subgrade it with stone as if I intended to do concrete. Very fine stone such as CA 6 or grade 8 or compactible road mix can be used to tighten the top surface really fairly smooth. I’ve seen folks lay cheep carpet over this well compacted and work on it for a year or two before discarding and pouring a finished concrete floor. Lots of ideas but I think a stone solution will likely be most short term permanent, economical and in the end used in the final product and not wasted.

[k-kay]

I have an idea, since we did this for our split wood shed and it is based on your location.  Find unwanted metal mesh hog confinement flooring, some of it is coated but be forewarned they are heavy and typically come 4x6 or 6x8 panels.  We set them on 4" solid blocks so it is a raised floor and did a 16x20 building with 'em.  Just an alternative idea.  

 

[oldlady]

uuhh guys, has anyone noticed the date of the original question?   that person has not come back since may of 2021.

[Pyewackette]

The person to whom at least some of us were responding (Vermont Potter) was last online Feb 23.

Pye

[VermontPotter]

Apologies!

[Pyewackette]

Goodness, whatever for???? 

(Welcome back, hope there was some useful information to be found here upon your return)