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USA copyright law, can i use it free? live stream thurs at noon


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callie, you know i just do not do computer stuff so i am hoping you might be able to use this info.  

the Loudoun County Va.  library is having an employee of the US copyright  office do a live stream on thursday, july 17 at noon.   i do not know what that means so i do not know if it is open to everyone.  i would send the email to some place if someone wants to read it.

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48 minutes ago, oldlady said:

no, that is why i posted it here.   i don't think anyone is interested in it anyway.

I am.  I really enjoy talks about this kind of stuff.  However what I don't enjoy is that the law doesn't matter and fair use is often strongarmed out by lawyers because artists can't afford the money or time to fight a baseless lawsuit in court.  

But it's always nice to know more.

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@oldlady

It looks like anyone can join in. You’ll need to log in with an email address that you can set up ahead of time, and you’ll need either Flash or Windows Media Player as they program to view it in. 
Here is the link if anyone is interested. 
http://loudouncountypubliclibrary.evanced.info/msignup/details?eventid=72711

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By the way, if anyone is interested...  He did mention that Disney sues everyone for everything that has anything to do with any of their brands, regardless of fair use/transformative works etc.  So.... Before you make that star wars mug or studio Ghibli plate, think twice about posting a picture of it!  You can't beat Disney's lawyers in court no matter how legal it is.

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We made ceramic pins and magnets (a line of 20 animals ) long ago and stamed a copyright symbol on each one-never had an issue-most just see that and stop there. Of course it was a kinder world back then.Sold them from Hawaii to New England -Vancouver Bc to Florida to San Diego -all zoos and aquariums-gteat whole sale business. If I run across the color page of animals I'll post it. This was 1981-85. 

We where told to do that by another big time pin manufacture with ceramic pins. 

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1 hour ago, Mark C. said:

Oh no my laser saber mug design I knocked  offed and had made  in china -the 1,000 mugs are due in any week now-rats

Ok Its a 1,000 Dalmatian  plate set next

Oh you joke, but Disney actually has a well-deserved reputation for suing the crap out of small businesses and individuals for the most random copyright issues.  And I see a LOT of star wars and Disney character mugs and plates on reddit, Facebook and Instagram.  Every time I see one I'm like noooo, don't post it online, just send it to the person who commissioned it and pretend it never existed!  People don't realize photos on the internet live forever.

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17 hours ago, liambesaw said:

By the way, if anyone is interested...  He did mention that Disney sues everyone for everything that has anything to do with any of their brands, regardless of fair use/transformative works etc.  So.... Before you make that star wars mug or studio Ghibli plate, think twice about posting a picture of it!  You can't beat Disney's lawyers in court no matter how legal it is.

I talk about this, at the beginning of every Semester with all my classes, specifically focusing on Disney.  I tell them the story of the daycare, that had Disney characters painted on their walls, who were forced to cover them up... A daycare!

This is even more of a concern now, because they own even more content! 

I made a t-shirt design as a gift for my Dad.  He was trying to find a design with a specific quote from a movie, and didn't find anything he liked.  So I made the design myself, and used an online design place to print it for me.  The got back to me, and said they couldn't do it, because it was a Paramount movie, who is owned by Disney.  I had no idea the quote was even something they owned.  I thought it was just a common phrase!  The rep from the company offered some suggestions for how to alter it, and even pointed me to Disney affiliated sites, to see if I could find something there.  I declined, and said I'd just do it myself.  So I made my own screen (For one print) and made it for him. 

But yeah @liambesaw I too see people posting pictures of their versions of work that is copyright protected.  I think to myself, "Stop it, *THEY KNOW*!"

I've even see some YouTube channels, where they are making commissioned work, that is based on Pop culture material that is not their own!  I'm not going to criticize them for making the work, but don't document it man!

Also, it's pretty ironic that Disney is so protective over their content, considering that most of the movies that made them famous, were knock offs of old fairy tales (Only less gruesome and depressing)

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I’m going to take the intellectual property owner’s side when it comes to copyright enforcement. Disney has every right to aggressively enforce their copyrights. NO small business or artist has the right to turn a profit off of the wild popularity of Disney characters. Especially given that the selling is done to (or through) little kids, which adds another layer of unethical. That includes the daycare. Especially when it comes to those calling themselves “artists.” Using copyrighted material is dishonest, cheesy, and shows a total lack of original ideas. No sympathy for those who get nailed for crossing the line. Anyone who wants to be a professional artist needs to learn where the lines are drawn, and to respect the lines. 

In my experience, there are two kinds of professional artists. Those who have had their work ripped off by another, and those who haven’t yet experienced it. When it happens to you, you’ll see why it’s important. 

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53 minutes ago, GEP said:

I’m going to take the intellectual property owner’s side when it comes to copyright enforcement. Disney has every right to aggressively enforce their copyrights. NO small business or artist has the right to turn a profit off of the wild popularity of Disney characters. Especially given that the selling is done to (or through) little kids, which adds another layer of unethical. That includes the daycare. Especially when it comes to those calling themselves “artists.” Using copyrighted material is dishonest, cheesy, and shows a total lack of original ideas. No sympathy for those who get nailed for crossing the line. Anyone who wants to be a professional artist needs to learn where the lines are drawn, and to respect the lines. 

In my experience, there are two kinds of professional artists. Those who have had their work ripped off by another, and those who haven’t yet experienced it. When it happens to you, you’ll see why it’s important. 

Well here's the thing, the law allows for things like fair use, transformative works, parody, etc.  and these artists are all well within their rights to make them.  Disney is being unethical by filing baseless lawsuits that they know the individual can't afford to fight in court.  

So while I also side with copyright owners on actual issues of copyright infringement, I don't side with copyright holders who abuse our court system just to discourage fair use.

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10 hours ago, liambesaw said:

Oh you joke, but Disney actually has a well-deserved reputation for suing the crap out of small businesses and individuals for the most random copyright issues.  And I see a LOT of star wars and Disney character mugs and plates on reddit, Facebook and Instagram.  Every time I see one I'm like noooo, don't post it online, just send it to the person who commissioned it and pretend it never existed!  People don't realize photos on the internet live forever.

I acutally know this is true as it happened to my auto body shop who used tweety bird (I may not recall this right)on his sign in the 90s-They where nastsy to him as well. I was just joking around 

As to the idea of steeling an artist idea I will always well stick to the inventor side. They produced it. As one who has been knocked off I am like Gep on this issue.

Edited by Mark C.
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51 minutes ago, liambesaw said:

fair use, transformative works, parody, etc

These terms are not “get out of jail free” cards. Their applicability is very limited. I seriously doubt Disney is going after true fair use cases. They wouldn’t waste their time. Do you know of any case where Disney sued someone and lost? It doesn’t happen because the law is on their side. Stop making them the devil in this fight. They have the right to defend their property. Other businesses can easily avoid this fight by using their own original ideas. 

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40 minutes ago, GEP said:

These terms are not “get out of jail free” cards. Their applicability is very limited. I seriously doubt Disney is going after true fair use cases. They wouldn’t waste their time. Do you know of any case where Disney sued someone and lost? It doesn’t happen because the law is on their side. Stop making them the devil in this fight. They have the right to defend their property. Other businesses can easily avoid this fight by using their own original ideas. 

It's funny,  I just attended a free seminar on the issue this week hosted by someone who works for the US copyright office and he discussed this very topic.

I don't disagree with anything you've said, if you read what I wrote, I think you'd also agree with my words.

Original works are always great, like all of the old public domain works that Disney has somehow been able to claim ownership of.

And yes. Disney loses copyright battles in court all the time, but mostly because they stole other people's copyrighted works.

Edited by liambesaw
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I don’t agree with your assertion that Disney files baseless lawsuits. And that you seem to think those who get sued are innocent victims. They’re not. And you used the “fair use” clauses  as if they offer broad immunity. I’m just trying to clarify that they don’t, because too many artists have this misconception. 

Edit to add: too many artists like to spread an attitude of being resentful towards those who have copyrights that are worth defending, It’s the wrong way to look at it, The Copyright Law is our friend. It exists to protect us, not to stifle us. 

Edited by GEP
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I coined a phrase that I have used for many decades: "Art is spirituality in drag".   It got out of it's box and into the wild at some point and I have found it misattributed to other sources in a dozen places, including a published book and a dang tee-shirt company! I will make/sell my own tee shirts, thank you very much. Here is where I first used my saying--one of a series of slip cast masks, from way back when.  I wrote to all the companies, cited their absence of permission and the copyright violation, and to their credit, no one gave me any flak, none claimed any "fair use", no tee-shirts had been made, it's been removed from their content, and the Unitarian Universalist  Association received my permission to just leave it be-it is in a book of essays-this one was titled " “Creativity, Art, and Failure”. Turned out the author had seen it  on a button made by a friend of mine (who did have permission to use it) and attributed it to her. 

Art is--.jpg

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On 7/17/2020 at 7:05 AM, GEP said:

I’m going to take the intellectual property owner’s side when it comes to copyright enforcement. Disney has every right to aggressively enforce their copyrights. NO small business or artist has the right to turn a profit off of the wild popularity of Disney characters. Especially given that the selling is done to (or through) little kids, which adds another layer of unethical. That includes the daycare. Especially when it comes to those calling themselves “artists.” Using copyrighted material is dishonest, cheesy, and shows a total lack of original ideas. No sympathy for those who get nailed for crossing the line. Anyone who wants to be a professional artist needs to learn where the lines are drawn, and to respect the lines. 

In my experience, there are two kinds of professional artists. Those who have had their work ripped off by another, and those who haven’t yet experienced it. When it happens to you, you’ll see why it’s important. 

Years ago my sister told me of seeing  what she thought was one of my carved-through floral Easter eggs at a "craft fair" which, upon examination, was made in China and very inexpensive. Sigh.  

Still, we all have antecedents. I have always been grateful for the incredible generosity of the potter community. Very little hoarding of formulas and techniques, a confidence that secrets can be decoded, or reinvented. 

How unique is that, relative to other creative communities? 

Maybe it's the alchemy involved?

Edited by Rae Reich
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  • 2 weeks later...
On 7/17/2020 at 9:05 AM, GEP said:

Using copyrighted material is dishonest, cheesy, and shows a total lack of original ideas.

This is essentially what I tell my student,  just worded a bit nicer.

I tell them it is fine to be inspired by another work of art, but trying to copy or replicate it, is not OK. 

I also tell my students, that if they post their work online, make sure to watermark it extensively.  With social media, there is way too much sharing of content, without giving proper credit.  I've seen people post others work, and act like they are a genius simply for finding and posting it.  Then when criticized they usually say, "I was giving it exposure!"  *Sigh*

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