Bette Posted November 20, 2019 Report Share Posted November 20, 2019 Hello and thank you for all the knowledge sharing here, which has helped me so much. What differences should I expect in specific gravity and firing results with different types of water for mixing up a glaze dry mix? My options are distilled water, very hard tap water, or softened water (a salt process). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liambesaw Posted November 20, 2019 Report Share Posted November 20, 2019 Depending on the salts involved in your water softener, it could deflocculate or flocculate a glaze, which will not have any noticable affect on the specific gravity, but may change the consistency slightly. Hard water will also have no noticable affect on the gravity, as the TDS of even hard water is generally on the order of hundreds of parts per million. You can always test this yourself by measuring out 100 grams of distilled water, 100 grams of your hard water, and 100 grams of your soft water in the same size container and compare the water level. They should all be pretty much exactly the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hulk Posted November 20, 2019 Report Share Posted November 20, 2019 We have salt soft, however, also RO at the kitchen sink - I'm using that for glazes, fwiw. Just completed a holding tank project to capture the RO waste - it's about four to one - which we use to water the landscaping with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liambesaw Posted November 20, 2019 Report Share Posted November 20, 2019 Yes, I forgot to add, if you want to be able to repeat a glaze exactly, use a distilled, or RO water. The mineral content of hard water can change from season to season so it could potentially contribute to small changes in the chemistry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benzine Posted November 20, 2019 Report Share Posted November 20, 2019 2 hours ago, liambesaw said: Yes, I forgot to add, if you want to be able to repeat a glaze exactly, use a distilled, or RO water. The mineral content of hard water can change from season to season so it could potentially contribute to small changes in the chemistry. Or if you live in a small, rural town, it can change day to day, especially when something in the main gets knocked loose. Then there are the times the City forgets to change their filters, or they flush the hydrants. I hope you want RIO in your glaze recipe, because that's what you're getting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Kielb Posted November 20, 2019 Report Share Posted November 20, 2019 2 hours ago, Bette said: Hello and thank you for all the knowledge sharing here, which has helped me so much. What differences should I expect in specific gravity and firing results with different types of water for mixing up a glaze dry mix? My options are distilled water, very hard tap water, or softened water (a salt process). A small under counter RO system might turn out to be ideal as it should remove the metals, organics and lower the TDS. Years ago I built hundreds of Starbucks and it was standard practice to install a whole business RO system with the concept being anywhere you get your favorite latte it will taste virtually the same. currently I believe they simply use the filter “RO” systems and have gone away from the repressurizing systems. Just a reminder, natural glaze chems change slightly as well so it’s hard to make a completely goof proof glaze. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted November 20, 2019 Report Share Posted November 20, 2019 Unless you have a lot of minerals or whatever in your water, you're not likely to see a difference in your glazes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bette Posted November 21, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2019 Great information from all, thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roberta12 Posted November 21, 2019 Report Share Posted November 21, 2019 I have hard water, salt softened water and purchased distilled water and did some testing when I started mixing my glazes at my home studio. I couldn't see any difference whatsoever. I mostly use the tap water (softened) for glazes for the reason that was mentioned above, hard well water can change from season to season. Roberta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frieda Pereira Posted April 13, 2021 Report Share Posted April 13, 2021 Thank you all for this information on the usage of the different waters in glazes... I just moved out to the country and have softened tap water and we put in a RO system for drinking water. I use RO or distilled water to make my glazes and reclaim clay. I would rather use the softened tap water to do this as it is easier. Does anyone know if the salt in the softened water have any effect on the kiln elements when firing, like in a salt firing? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokey2 Posted April 13, 2021 Report Share Posted April 13, 2021 On 11/20/2019 at 5:34 PM, neilestrick said: Unless you have a lot of minerals or whatever in your water, you're not likely to see a difference in your glazes. On 11/20/2019 at 10:30 PM, Roberta12 said: I have hard water, salt softened water and purchased distilled water and did some testing when I started mixing my glazes at my home studio. I couldn't see any difference whatsoever. I mostly use the tap water (softened) for glazes for the reason that was mentioned above, hard well water can change from season to season. Roberta I also have hard water, salt softened water and used distilled water. I don't see a bit of difference in my glazes. My thinking is if the water is drinkable its going to be fine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Min Posted April 13, 2021 Report Share Posted April 13, 2021 35 minutes ago, Frieda Pereira said: Does anyone know if the salt in the softened water have any effect on the kiln elements when firing, like in a salt firing? Amount of sodium in the water is going to be negligible insofar as kiln element life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted April 13, 2021 Report Share Posted April 13, 2021 Even for water that has a lot of minerals in it, their total % is very small. There are very few glaze ingredients that will cause a noticeable change in how the glaze melts if you change them by 1%, which is way more than you would get from water. At most I think the minerals may have a small effect on flocculation/deflocculation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callie Beller Diesel Posted April 13, 2021 Report Share Posted April 13, 2021 The amount of salt you add to a salt firing is usually measured in kilograms. The amount of salt in potable water is measured in milligrams (parts per million). I kg= 1000g =1 million mg. You can’t measure out a milligram on a scale that you’d use for pottery purposes: it’s too small. Acceptable standards in Canada for drinking water are >200ppm sodium, and that amount will taste. Most municipal supplies are between 5 and 9 ppm, and you’d have to check your local numbers for specifics. But I can’t think anything coming out of a softener would be higher than that 200 ppm max. You’re not going to change your glaze chemistry with potable water. I live in an area with very hard water sourced from a river. I have never once in 25 years noticed a seasonal change in my glazes, either in the bucket, or fired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Kielb Posted April 14, 2021 Report Share Posted April 14, 2021 7 hours ago, Callie Beller Diesel said: You’re not going to change your glaze chemistry with potable water. I live in an area with very hard water sourced from a river. I have never once in 25 years noticed a seasonal change in my glazes, either in the bucket, or fired. Agreed! When it can be quantified and entered into a glaze calculator then maybe it will have a significant influence. How many grams of sodium is 200 ppm in a 100g test glaze? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted April 14, 2021 Report Share Posted April 14, 2021 5 minutes ago, Bill Kielb said: How many grams of sodium is 200 ppm in a 100g test glaze? 200ppm = 0.2g/kg, so if I'm doing the math right, that's .02 grams in a 100g test batch, or 2g in a 10,000g full batch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Kielb Posted April 14, 2021 Report Share Posted April 14, 2021 4 minutes ago, neilestrick said: 200ppm = 0.2g/kg, so if I'm doing the math right, that's .02 grams in a 100g test batch, or 2g in a 10,000g full batch. 100 g of dry mixed glaze will become prox 140 grams of liquid glaze, but close enough. So for very rich sodium water I get to enter .02 g of sodium. How much would I expect that to change the chemistry of my recipe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callie Beller Diesel Posted April 14, 2021 Report Share Posted April 14, 2021 Keep in mind that most municipal water has single digit ppm. 200ppm is the max allowable. So it’s more like 0.0008 g per 100g test batch, assuming you’re using equal parts water. Or 0.8g in a 10,000g batch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Kielb Posted April 14, 2021 Report Share Posted April 14, 2021 13 minutes ago, Callie Beller Diesel said: So it’s more like 0.0008 g per 100g I have a scale that measures to .001 g but it’s hard to use with the slightest breeze and my item being measured constantly blows off the scale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callie Beller Diesel Posted April 14, 2021 Report Share Posted April 14, 2021 I’ve used one that went to 5 decimal places, but it had a cover to prevent drafts, and you couldn’t have the radio on in the room. (Misspent 20’s in a soil testing lab.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted April 14, 2021 Report Share Posted April 14, 2021 46 minutes ago, Bill Kielb said: 100 g of dry mixed glaze will become prox 140 grams of liquid glaze, but close enough. So for very rich sodium water I get to enter .02 g of sodium. How much would I expect that to change the chemistry of my recipe? It doesn't show up in the unity, even at .02. At 0.0008 Hyperglaze just rounds it down to zero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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