Cone 9-10 Electric?

[Brandon Franks]

Hey everyone,

 

I'm sort of getting bored of the glazes available to be made at cone 6, and wanted to go to cone 10 electric. Firstly, do you think going to cone 9-10 electric is any better than cone 6? Secondly, are there any different concerns/precautions I have to take?

 

Thanks,

Brandon

[neilestrick]

You won't gain anything by going to cone 10. The big difference between cone 6 and one 10 glazes is that most people who fire cone 10 fire in reduction, which you can't do in an electric. So you can't fire the 'classic' cone 10 glazes like shino and tenmoku and expect them to come out the same. Pretty much anything you can do in cone 10 oxidation you can do at cone 6. Firing to cone 10 will cut your element life and overall kiln life in half.

[Brandon Franks]

2 minutes ago, neilestrick said:

You won't gain anything by going to cone 10. The big difference between cone 6 and one 10 glazes is that most people who fire cone 10 fire in reduction, which you can't do in an electric. So you can't fire the 'classic' cone 10 glazes like shino and tenmoku and expect them to come out the same. Pretty much anything you can do in cone 10 oxidation you can do at cone 6. Firing to cone 10 will cut your element life and overall kiln life in half.

Okay, thanks. Good to know.

 

[liambesaw]

I haven't ever seen a reason to use cone 10 with electric.  The difference in material cost between cone 6 and cone 10 are so small when spread out over a 5 gallon bucket it doesn't matter.  If anything cone 10 glazes are less colorful and more "60s" drab and to be honest pretty tired.  But it's always fun to mix things up!  

[Denice]

Have you tried refiring  a C6 glaze to C04,   years ago I read a article about this in CM.  The article included a couple of recipes that were dull and ugly but because interesting a multicolored glaze when refired.   I started refiring all of the C6 glazes I used to see what would happen,  I also did with with layering glazes.     Denice

[PeterH]

> I'm sort of getting bored of the glazes available to be made at cone 6 ...

Have you tried any of the slow-cooled/downfired ones?

Slow Cooling by Norm Stewart https://cone6pots.ning.com/forum/topic/listForContributor?user=0ng9vrmzioqmi
Gas kilns use hard fire-brick which cool far more slowly than the foam-core brick used in electric kilns. Many here have suggested
this is one major difference in the "cone 10" look of a gas kiln.

[Brandon Franks]

3 hours ago, PeterH said:

> I'm sort of getting bored of the glazes available to be made at cone 6 ...

Have you tried any of the slow-cooled/downfired ones?

Slow Cooling by Norm Stewart https://cone6pots.ning.com/forum/topic/listForContributor?user=0ng9vrmzioqmi
Gas kilns use hard fire-brick which cool far more slowly than the foam-core brick used in electric kilns. Many here have suggested
this is one major difference in the "cone 10" look of a gas kiln.

I have, I never found the results better then a normal cool though.

[Brandon Franks]

5 hours ago, Denice said:

Have you tried refiring  a C6 glaze to C04,   years ago I read a article about this in CM.  The article included a couple of recipes that were dull and ugly but because interesting a multicolored glaze when refired.   I started refiring all of the C6 glazes I used to see what would happen,  I also did with with layering glazes.     Denice

That's interesting. Have you tried at ^06?

[Brandon Franks]

16 hours ago, liambesaw said:

I haven't ever seen a reason to use cone 10 with electric.  The difference in material cost between cone 6 and cone 10 are so small when spread out over a 5 gallon bucket it doesn't matter.  If anything cone 10 glazes are less colorful and more "60s" drab and to be honest pretty tired.  But it's always fun to mix things up!  

Okay! Thanks.

 

[Magnolia Mud Research]

21 hours ago, Brandon Franks said:

I'm sort of getting bored of the glazes available to be made at cone 6, and wanted to go to cone 10 electric. Firstly, do you think going to cone 9-10 electric is any better than cone 6? Secondly, are there any different concerns/precautions I have to take?

My thoughts: 
If you want to go to cone 10 electric, you should just do it! and take for granted that some of the cone 5-6 crowd will think you are crazy.  

I have worked briefly with several potters that migrated to cone 10 electric and they love it. Their work is unique, and their product could not be produced at cone 6.  They are happy and so are their audiences.  The insight these potters shared was that most customers collect work on functionality and aesthetic attributes and don't care what cone was used to control the firing steps of production.  The buyers that focused on a specific firing technique were not interested in buying the work of the cone 10 electric firing potters anyway. 

The "concerns/precautions" you asked for are those associated with any movement from your current comfort zone to a point outside of that fence; such as the need to check to see that your power supply and equipment are suitable for the demands from the different firing conditions.  Firing times will be longer, clay bodies might be different, etc.  If you work carefully, you might be able to migrate or use your cone 6 glazes to cone 10; I have learned to use cone 3 oxidation glazes at cone 10 reduction.  They looked different at cone 10. And I learned that glaze application is more important than recipe. 

You will have a learning curve to climb, and if you treat the climb as an educational expedition you will not be bored (which is the reason for your moving).  

Cone 10 glazes in oxidation (aka electric) will look different from the cone 10 reduction photos in the glaze recipe books.   For instance, the traditional cone 10 reduction shino glaze will have a whiter blandness in oxidation, but it might just become an excellent ground coat for "painting".  On the other side making cone 10 iron red glazes will be easier than in reduction.  

As you undertake the migration, you should clearly (to yourself) identify the one or two go/no-go characteristics that are important. In other words, you should ask yourself why are you bored with cone 6?  What is missing that is causing the boredom?   Then consider how to use the change to cone 10 to produce the "non-bored" characteristic in your work.  

If I were in a similar situation, I would just start by firing my existing clay bodies and glazes at higher temperatures to see what happens, especially paying attention to the "boring" aspect.   I expect some slumping of forms and movement of glazes to take place so I would raise firing temperature in logical steps to find the temperature boundary between OK and complete failure.  I would take existing forms unglazed to a higher temperature to see when they begin to change shape.  I would select a current form that than can handle glaze running (without a lot of extra additions to trap running) to test my existing glazes at the higher temperatures; and I would play with application thickness and combinations. I would use the "A over B", "B over A", and "A plus B mixed" approach to see what happens at the higher temperature.  I would try to measure clay body thickness and overhang to measure slumping, as well as plain slumping bars; for glazes I would measure application thickness, and have measured the location of glaze/raw clay lines before and after the firings to estimate the running distance of the glaze.  I would also plan to break some pieces and measure the depth of the glaze penetration of the glaze into the clay body for each increased step in firing target. I found that changing clay body was necessary, I would still begin my glaze search at the new firing temperature with the glazes I already know. 

One attribute of cone 10 firing is that the glaze recipes become simpler because the low temperature melting is not required for glaze formation.  

Go for it!

LT

[Mark C.]

I agree with LTs post above and just as a added idea consdider going to cone 10 in a small Gas kiln if you can swing that. Glaze fluxing at cone 10 is very easy and the work is usually never boring. Of course I only do cone 10 gas firing so I'm a bit biased .

[Callie Beller Diesel]

I made the switch a few years ago from cone 10 reduction to cone 6 electric. I did so because of accessability issues, not because I didn't like the aesthetic. I like things about both, so for me the switch wasn't a heartbreaker.

The difference I noticed coming the other way was that cone 6 chemistry is much more challenging, and electric kilns require more awareness of exactly what's happening in the firing cycle. If you have a good working knowledge at cone 6, the transition to cone ten will go more easily. Many sins are forgiven with the application of enough heat in a well insulated gas kiln. You mentioned still working in an electric kiln though, so downfiring for things like more crystal developlment won't be new ideas. I found the clay was more expensive at cone ten, but the glaze materials can be had for super cheap, while the clay at cone 6 is far less expensive and the glaze materials were more$$. Overall, the cost balances out. Given that I think I pay about $13 per kiln firing at cone 6, I don't think adding a few hours to hit cone ten would really kill the bank.

Cone ten can be more drab (although it doesn't have to be), but that also leads to a lot more subtlty. It's my own non-scientific observation that form takes a much stronger role at the higher temperatures because there aren't as many prettily coloured glazes to hide behind: an inelegant pot with a roughly applied celadon is extra ugly. 

Cone ten, oxidation or reduction, is a different aesthetic, not better or worse. It's very arbitrary, and depends on what you like. Your customers will buy your passion. Make what you need to.

[Denice]

On 7/24/2019 at 1:38 PM, Brandon Franks said:

That's interesting. Have you tried at ^06?

I didn't even think about going that low I was getting the results I was wanting at C04,  it might me fun to throw some tiles in the test kiln and see what happens.   I may give that a try when I get through with my current project.    Denice

[MFP]

Yes....I saw an article in one of the books I bought off the forum about refiring crystalline glazes to 018....this difference was startling in terms of intensifying and deepening the color. You wouldn't think it would happen but the pots they showed were obviously much different when refired. 

[Brandon Franks]

On 7/24/2019 at 6:55 PM, Magnolia Mud Research said:

 

 

On 7/24/2019 at 6:55 PM, Magnolia Mud Research said:

My thoughts: 
If you want to go to cone 10 electric, you should just do it! and take for granted that some of the cone 5-6 crowd will think you are crazy.  

I have worked briefly with several potters that migrated to cone 10 electric and they love it. Their work is unique, and their product could not be produced at cone 6.  They are happy and so are their audiences.  The insight these potters shared was that most customers collect work on functionality and aesthetic attributes and don't care what cone was used to control the firing steps of production.  The buyers that focused on a specific firing technique were not interested in buying the work of the cone 10 electric firing potters anyway. 

The "concerns/precautions" you asked for are those associated with any movement from your current comfort zone to a point outside of that fence; such as the need to check to see that your power supply and equipment are suitable for the demands from the different firing conditions.  Firing times will be longer, clay bodies might be different, etc.  If you work carefully, you might be able to migrate or use your cone 6 glazes to cone 10; I have learned to use cone 3 oxidation glazes at cone 10 reduction.  They looked different at cone 10. And I learned that glaze application is more important than recipe. 

You will have a learning curve to climb, and if you treat the climb as an educational expedition you will not be bored (which is the reason for your moving).  

Cone 10 glazes in oxidation (aka electric) will look different from the cone 10 reduction photos in the glaze recipe books.   For instance, the traditional cone 10 reduction shino glaze will have a whiter blandness in oxidation, but it might just become an excellent ground coat for "painting".  On the other side making cone 10 iron red glazes will be easier than in reduction.  

As you undertake the migration, you should clearly (to yourself) identify the one or two go/no-go characteristics that are important. In other words, you should ask yourself why are you bored with cone 6?  What is missing that is causing the boredom?   Then consider how to use the change to cone 10 to produce the "non-bored" characteristic in your work.  

If I were in a similar situation, I would just start by firing my existing clay bodies and glazes at higher temperatures to see what happens, especially paying attention to the "boring" aspect.   I expect some slumping of forms and movement of glazes to take place so I would raise firing temperature in logical steps to find the temperature boundary between OK and complete failure.  I would take existing forms unglazed to a higher temperature to see when they begin to change shape.  I would select a current form that than can handle glaze running (without a lot of extra additions to trap running) to test my existing glazes at the higher temperatures; and I would play with application thickness and combinations. I would use the "A over B", "B over A", and "A plus B mixed" approach to see what happens at the higher temperature.  I would try to measure clay body thickness and overhang to measure slumping, as well as plain slumping bars; for glazes I would measure application thickness, and have measured the location of glaze/raw clay lines before and after the firings to estimate the running distance of the glaze.  I would also plan to break some pieces and measure the depth of the glaze penetration of the glaze into the clay body for each increased step in firing target. I found that changing clay body was necessary, I would still begin my glaze search at the new firing temperature with the glazes I already know. 

One attribute of cone 10 firing is that the glaze recipes become simpler because the low temperature melting is not required for glaze formation.  

Go for it!

LT

Awesome, thanks for telling me that. I am going to pickup some high fire clay at Ceramic Supply this week and will make some tester glazes. I really appreciate all the information you shared and it will definitely help me experiment.

 

Thanks,

Brandon 

[Brandon Franks]

5 hours ago, Denice said:

I didn't even think about going that low I was getting the results I was wanting at C04,  it might me fun to throw some tiles in the test kiln and see what happens.   I may give that a try when I get through with my current project.    Denice

I will try it in my next bisque load. I will share the results on here too!

[Brandon Franks]

8 hours ago, Callie Beller Diesel said:

I made the switch a few years ago from cone 10 reduction to cone 6 electric. I did so because of accessability issues, not because I didn't like the aesthetic. I like things about both, so for me the switch wasn't a heartbreaker.

The difference I noticed coming the other way was that cone 6 chemistry is much more challenging, and electric kilns require more awareness of exactly what's happening in the firing cycle. If you have a good working knowledge at cone 6, the transition to cone ten will go more easily. Many sins are forgiven with the application of enough heat in a well insulated gas kiln. You mentioned still working in an electric kiln though, so downfiring for things like more crystal developlment won't be new ideas. I found the clay was more expensive at cone ten, but the glaze materials can be had for super cheap, while the clay at cone 6 is far less expensive and the glaze materials were more$$. Overall, the cost balances out. Given that I think I pay about $13 per kiln firing at cone 6, I don't think adding a few hours to hit cone ten would really kill the bank.

Cone ten can be more drab (although it doesn't have to be), but that also leads to a lot more subtlty. It's my own non-scientific observation that form takes a much stronger role at the higher temperatures because there aren't as many prettily coloured glazes to hide behind: an inelegant pot with a roughly applied celadon is extra ugly. 

Cone ten, oxidation or reduction, is a different aesthetic, not better or worse. It's very arbitrary, and depends on what you like. Your customers will buy your passion. Make what you need to.

I totally agree. My cone 6 style is very similar to soda and wood firing, but I don't have access to those kilns. I try to make styles that generally look better In wood firing, and I really like what I have made within the cone 6 range. I feel that cone 10 may better suite my style and standards though.

 

Thanks for the info,

Brandon 

[Babs]

2 hours ago, Brandon Franks said:

I totally agree. My cone 6 style is very similar to soda and wood firing, but I don't have access to those kilns. I try to make styles that generally look better In wood firing, and I really like what I have made within the cone 6 range. I feel that cone 10 may better suite my style and standards though.

 

Thanks for the info,

Brandon 

Check out member Joseph Fireborn's pottery...amazing results in c6 electric!

[Marcia Selsor]

I began firing to ^6 reduction in 1980 after 14 years of firing ^9-10. 6 reduction glazes teaching glaze chemistry to students.I developed many  ^6 glazes for functional pottery which looked like ^10 stoneware or porcelain. Several of those glazes have been published in Michael Bailey's Oriental glazes and are the only 6 glazes in his book.

After leaving University teaching I began developing glazes for ^6 oxidation. With help from others like Sandy Miller's explanation of holding temps, I worked on glazes for my functional ware and I was satisfied with the results. ^6 Oxidation is a popular method of firing particularly for people with restricted access to other kilns. ^6 clays are available as well. It reduced the carbon footprint by using about 1/2 the fuel to fire to ^10. Pyrotechnic manuals from refractory companies show diagrams of fuel consumption for temperature ranges. It ,makes more sense to me to lower temps. to ^6.

Marcia