neilestrick
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Posts posted by neilestrick
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46 minutes ago, Dick White said:
It is true that 48 amp kilns are built with 50 amp plugs/receptacles on 60 amp circuits. So, yes, a kiln drawing less than 30 amps could use a 30 amp plug on a 40 amp circuit. But this kiln is likely pulling more than 30 amps (though we don't actually know, just doing the math from factory spec sheets), so the 30 amp plug is insufficient.
I've spoken to L&L about this before, because I occasionally run into an electrician who will not use the 50 amp cord on a 60 amp circuit. L&L said this is sort of a gray area, and all the 48 amp kilns get UL listing with the 50 amp cord because the cord uses 6 gauge wire and can handle the 60 amps should it need to. If you look at the smaller kilns made by L&L and Skutt that pull 20 amps, they size the power cord for the 30 amp breaker, not the 20 amp draw.
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42 minutes ago, marymae said:
The breaker did not flip when we reduced the size of the kiln from 3 to 2 sections. Does that make a difference? The electrician admitted he has never worked on a kiln before so maybe he felt intimidated. He is a 68 year old man who has been an electrician all his life. I thought he would have an idea.
It all has to be wired up according to the actual amperage draw of the kiln, which we don't know at this point.
Most electricians don't know anything about kilns. They are unusual compared to most appliances they work on. Typically they defer to what the serial plate says.
4 hours ago, neilestrick said:Best bet to get this kiln running properly and safely is to start over with the correct elements. You'll need elements for a KS1018. There are two types of elements for that kiln, 2 top/bottom and 2 center, total of 4. Measure the thickness of the bricks in your kiln, they will be either 2.5" or 3". Get elements for the correct brick thickness or they won't fit correctly.
You'll need to put a new power cord on the kiln. Get it from Skutt. It'll be a 50 amp cord with a NEMA 6-50 plug.
Expect to spend about $400 for kiln parts.
With the correct elements the kiln will pull 40 amps. Codes says that the breaker must be 25% greater than the draw of the kiln, so it will need a 50 amp breaker. All wiring from the main panel to the sub panel by the kiln and from the sub panel to the outlet must be at least 6 gauge wire. Larger if needed for voltage drop.
You'll need a new outlet to match the plug, NEMA 6-50.
See above. This is what is needed to make the kiln work for you with two sections. Your electrician will be able to tell you if you've got enough power to run a 40 amp kiln or not. If not, then look for a kiln that only pulls 24 amps, as you can put that on a 30 amp circuit. Many 18"x18" interior kilns are 24 amps.
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4 minutes ago, Dick White said:
(and I can't imagine how the previous owner ran the whole kiln on that...).
I once worked on a 48 amp kiln that had been on a 40 amp breaker for years, until the breaker died.
Not sure how they got a 30 to work, though. They maybe changed the breaker to a 50 and had all that #10 wire running 48 amps.
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1 hour ago, High Bridge Pottery said:
Isn't 25% greater than 30 amps 37.5 amps? I know it doesn't match the kilns amps but it seems within the code and the electrician is oblivious to how much power the kiln is using?
I was just thinking about this some more- if it was flipping the 30 amp breaker then we know it was pulling more than 30 amps, so that plug and outlet should not be used.
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3 hours ago, marymae said:
Will this even work?
That's a question for your electrician. It depends on what else is hooked up to the panel.
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1 hour ago, High Bridge Pottery said:
Isn't 25% greater than 30 amps 37.5 amps? I know it doesn't match the kilns amps but it seems within the code and the electrician is oblivious to how much power the kiln is using?
You're right. My bad. I was in a rush. Edited to avoid confusion.
But I'd like to know why he wired it up to match the plug when that doesn't match the info on the serial plate. Trusting the previous owner who changed the power cord?!? I don't think there's any way that kiln was pulling only 30 amps before. That would be like turning off an entire ring. It would maybe hit low bisque temps at best.
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Edited
Best bet to get this kiln running properly and safely is to start over with the correct elements. You'll need elements for a KS1018. There are two types of elements for that kiln, 2 top/bottom and 2 center, total of 4. Measure the thickness of the bricks in your kiln, they will be either 2.5" or 3". Get elements for the correct brick thickness or they won't fit correctly.
You'll need to put a new power cord on the kiln. Get it from Skutt. It'll be a 50 amp cord with a NEMA 6-50 plug.
Expect to spend about $400 for kiln parts.
With the correct elements the kiln will pull 40 amps. Codes says that the breaker must be 25% greater than the draw of the kiln, so it will need a 50 amp breaker. All wiring from the main panel to the sub panel by the kiln and from the sub panel to the outlet must be at least 6 gauge wire. Larger if needed for voltage drop.
You'll need a new outlet to match the plug, NEMA 6-50.
Get a good electrician who can do this right so you don't burn down your house.
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I read about that! Crazy that they just had it sitting out in the open where anyone could bump into it. Bad planning on the part of the gallery.
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Yep. The only issue is that it may not fit properly, but that's true of all clay bodies. What fits on one may not fit on another. As always, run a test before you use it on something you care about.
- Chilly, Rae Reich and Piedmont Pottery
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Because of the way that thermocouple mounts, make sure the bare ends of the thermocouple and thermocouple wires aren't too close to any metal parts like the mounting bracket or kiln body band.
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I really don't think this is a relay issue, otherwise this would be a common issue as relays fail. If the thermocouple wire is as old as the controller it would be good to replace it whether it's the source of the problem or not, but try the added grounding wire first since it's stuff you can get at the hardware store.
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1 hour ago, marymae said:
We took out the bottom sections and my electrician put in a new breaker.
So you're using two sections, the kiln is 18" deep inside? What size breaker did they install, and what size wire is going from the breaker to the outlet? What is the amperage rating of the outlet? It should say on it. Post a picture of the outlet if you need to.
1 hour ago, marymae said:The previous owner change the power cord
What type of cord did he install? Post a picture of the plug and cord.
1 hour ago, marymae said:I will check the elements and if they are the right ones, I think I should be good to go?
You need to measure the resistance of the elements using a multimeter. From there we can figure out everything else.
Do not run the kiln until we get this all straightened out. Without knowing the amperage draw of the kiln we don't know what size everything else should be.
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17 minutes ago, High Bridge Pottery said:
If it was noise wouldn't it be happening throughout the firing?
There are electromagnetic fields (or something like that) coming off the kiln, and they get worse as the kiln gets hotter. The two kilns I've had to add a ground wire to didn't have any problems until about 1900F. I remember talking with an engineer from Skutt once and he said the bricks make all sort of electrical noise as they get hotter.
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1 minute ago, kylies.clay said:
I’ll be honest, I’m not sure how I would check the ground. I know the panel to the kiln has good ground. Also when you’re talking about the transformer, do you mean the 240 to 24 transformer?
I’m in Georgia so I was about to go head to Olympic and pick up a V6-DF as I’m only 40 minutes away. Should I hold off?
The controller is normally grounded through the transformer, but sometimes theres more nose than it can handle and you have to add another ground wire that goes directly from the controller Center Tap tab to the grounding screw in the control box. You'll need a wire (14 or 16 gauge) with a .25 female disconnect on one end, and a ring terminal on the other end, and you'll have to put a new connector on the tab that allows you to attach two wires. But honestly, if you've got the money for a new controller just get it. It'll have more functionality and be more dependable. If you've got the money for the Genesis touch screen then get that.
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The lower you bisque the greater the risk of not getting good burnout and having glaze issues. With a whit clay it's not going to be as big a risk, but with a darker clay it could be an issue. 800C is really, really low.
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1 hour ago, kylies.clay said:
Okay hey guys. The thermocouple did not fix my issue. I took a video to include of what the kiln is doing. It seems really odd. The first time I ever did a ^6 firing And it did this, everything overfired - cones totally melted. This time the cone 6 cone wasn’t even bent. I’ll include a picture of it later once it’s cool enough
Here you are, it only starts up high around 1900°, but I did not catch it right when it started.
Assuming all of your thermocouple connections are tight (check the entire length of the wire for loos connections or breaks in the wire casing) I'd say it's probably time to replace the controller. That is a first generation digital controller that's like 30 years old. The only other thing you may want to try is adding a ground wire that goes from the center tap tab on the controller directly to a grounding screw. It's possible you're getting electrical interference and a direct ground can get rid of it. I've only ever seen that on 2 kilns before, though, so it's more likely a bad controller.
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8 minutes ago, elenab said:
I like very much the idea of a gas kiln - no elements to get old or to replace. And it seems (from comments I found) faster in firing.
Gas isn't necessarily faster to fire, nor should speed be a determining factor. Most glazes respond better to slower firings. Gas has its own set of issues to deal with and generally requires more work and knowledge on your part to fire with, so do some research before jumping in. Changing elements is part of owning an electric kiln, just like getting new brakes on your car. It only needs to be done every 100-150 firings, so it's not really a big deal.
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What model of kiln do you have? What is your service voltage? What voltage was it set up for originally? Are all the elements the same resistance? How many zones in the kiln?
I'm thinking the kiln was originally set up for 240 volts, but your service is 208 or 220 volts?
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You cannot run that kiln on a clothes dryer circuit. There are two issues to deal with when hooking up a kiln, voltage and amperage. The electrical service in homes in the US is 240 volts. In most commercial spaces it is 208 volts. The elements in the kiln are wound to work properly on whichever service you have. You get the correct elements depending on your voltage.
As for amperage, the breaker in your breaker box, and the wire going from the box to the kiln, must be able to handle the amperage draw of the kiln. Smaller kilns pull lower amperage, bigger kilns pull more. Everything from the breaker box to the kiln must be able to handle the amperage draw of the kiln, plus 25% to meet code. A Skutt KS1027 pulls 48 amps, so it has to be on a 60 amp breaker, and have at least 6 gauge wire from the breaker to the kiln. If the previous owner changed out the plug to work on a clothes dryer, then he probably created a dangerous situation because most clothes dryers run on a 30 amp circuit. If he put a 30 amp plug on the kiln and ran it on a 60 amp circuit, then he was lucky it didn't overheat and cause a fire. Did he just change out the plug, or the whole power cord, too?
As for you removing a section of the kiln, yes, it is possible, however you'll have to put different elements in it. You'd be turning it into a KS1018, which uses different elements than the 1027. The 1027 elements would be under-powered since the ratio of wall area to lid/floor area are different The 1018 pulls 40 amps, so it needs to be on a 50 amp breaker. The biggest kiln that could run on a 30 amp clothes dryer would be a kiln that only pulls 24 amps, which would be much smaller than what you have.
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3 hours ago, elenab said:
Hello, we checked the resistance, from the top to bottom elements have : 9.2, 5, 8.4 and 8.5
According to the Paragon web site, they should be 8 ohms each. Something goofy is going on with the one reading 5, the one reading 9.2 is worn out, and the others are close to worn out. On the kiln serial plate, what is the max temp, and what is the amperage draw? Does it have a 4 prong plug?
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You can use a glossy clear coat over the paint.
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11 minutes ago, elenab said:
But now, I just realised that cone 4 was old (it came with the kiln). Cone 6 , was bought not long time ago. Could it make a difference?
Age doesn't affect cones, but moisture does. If it ever got damp it could behave goofy.
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Most any glaze is going to craze from the thermal shock of the raku process, which means it won't be watertight or suitable for food.
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Skutt KS-1027 section removal
in Equipment Use and Repair
Posted
True. If the kiln pulls 48 amps and you take away one section, or 1/3 of the elements (we'll assume all the elements are the same), then you'd have a kiln that pulls 32 amps. However the 32 amps isn't enough power. The issues is that there's a lot of heat loss out the lid and the floor, and the 4 elements don't have the power to deal with that like the 6 elements did. So we have to increase the power of the 4 elements to make up for it. So you end up with a 40 amp kiln with 2 sections, and a 48 amp kiln with 3 sections. The only way to really save power is to go to a smaller kiln.