neilestrick
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Posts posted by neilestrick
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21 minutes ago, Earth Bender said:
@neilestrick thank you so much! What is too old? Something that's been used 5 years? 10?
It all depends on how much it's been fired. I've got a 40 year old kiln in my studio that's never been fired, and I have a 13 year old kiln that's been fired more than 2200 times. The kiln in your photos looks great, assuming the lid and floor slabs are not cracked.
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I would get the larger kiln. 8 sided kilns are fairly limiting in what you can fit in them.
You can get a wall mounted digital controller from Skutt or others, which basically turns your kiln into a digital kiln. You'll still have to turn on the Sitter, but the firing will be controlled by the digital system. They're not cheap, but you'll still be saving about $1500 vs the cost of a brand new kiln.
With a used kiln, make sure the bricks are in good condition- only small chips, no large breaks. Also check the lid and floor for cracks that go all the way through. Hairline cracks are normal. Also, if the bricks are very yellow in color then that's a sign that they've been fired a lot and are near the end of their life. White/cream colored bricks are what you want.
- Hulk, Pres and Piedmont Pottery
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8 hours ago, Kelly in AK said:
Yeah, that’s the nature of the problem. Skutt doesn’t make a 2-1/2” 1227. Yet here we are. So I’ll call ‘em tomorrow.
That was my question though, can you just stretch the elements for a 3” brick kiln to fit and call it good?
Maybe you've got a Frankenkiln and that control box isn't original to the kiln. How many bricks are in each row of the kiln? A 1227 should have 12 bricks. A 1027 will have 10 bricks. In your photo the angle of the bricks looks more like 10. And if that's the case, you'll need to double check your setup to make sure you actually have 208 volt 3 phase service.
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On 3/31/2023 at 5:27 PM, Dick White said:
while Skutt kept the interior dimension the same
Skutt 2.5" and 3" kilns have different interior dimensions. Otherwise you wouldn't need to specify which bricks when ordering elements. If you order the wrong elements, you can stretch each section of the 3" elements to fit a 2.5" brick kiln, but if you try to put 2.5" elements in a 3" kiln it won't work because they're too long. The body bands for both bricks are the same part number.
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14 minutes ago, Hulk said:
*should be simple enough to trim the shelves using a wet saw (tile saw).
Cordierite shelves can be cut with a masonry cutting disc (the black abrasive type) on a 7" circular saw. It makes a lot of dust, but it's easier than trying to maneuver a kiln shelf on a tile saw.
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19 hours ago, Kelly in AK said:
Thanks you guys! It’s definitely 2-1/2” brick and not a PK. I’m laughing a little at myself though- “Call Skutt.” Oh yeah, I forgot I could do that!
If you're sure it's 2.5" brick, then are you sure it's a KM1227? Skutt doesn't make the 1227 with 2.5" brick. Is it a 1027?
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You'll need the elements that match the voltage and phase of your kiln as well as the brick thickness, as they stretch them differently for the 2.5" and 3" kilns. Check your bricks, as the 12 sided kilns are usually built with 3" bricks. Also, there are two types of elements in your kiln- the very top and very bottom are one type, the 4 middle elements are another type. I'd look up part numbers for you but I'm out on vacation and don't have access to that info. If you can wait till Monday I can get that for you, or hopefully someone else here will jump in and help.
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I'd be mad. They should have installed the outlet to match your kiln, not modify your kiln without asking you. It's pure laziness, and because they modified it, they may have voided the warranty and/or UL listing. Make them replace the outlet with a 6-50 and make them buy and install a new power cord.
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Stores like that typically source their clays from clay suppliers you would know by name, and re-label them with with their own name. When I was working at A.R.T. clay a long time ago we were supplying Blick's clay. Just make sure it's labeled for use in a kiln, and that's it made to be fired at the temps you want to work at. If it doesn't give you any information about firing temps then don't use it.
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Element life should be similar between the two, but if the Paragon elements are worn then it can't get to temp. The Skutt elements are probably still in good condition. The soak at the low end will have little effect on element life.
- Bill Kielb and Pres
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Not to insult anyone, but remember that mixing and pugging are done with the machine running in different directions. They are two separate functions. It's not like a regular pugger where it mixes it and pushes it out all at the same time.
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The top and bottom elements should be at 10 ohms, so they're 10% and 20% off. That could definitely account for the problem.
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It looks to me like it fired about how I would expect a single zone to fire when empty- the middle ran a little hotter than the top and bottom. There's nothing you can do in the controller to even that out because all the elements cycle at the same time and there's only one thermocouple. You can try firing to a lower cone and using a hold to achieve your target cone because sometimes things will even out a little when holding, but what I would do is pay attention to how you load the kiln. Load the middle really tight- lots of small pieces, plates on short shelves, lots of mass- and load the top and bottom lighter- bowls, tall pieces, things that take up a lot of space but don't have much mass.
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@Meral Assuming everything is in working condition (no guarantees based on the condition of the exterior), it's going to function just like any other manual kiln with a Sitter. HERE is a manual for the sitter. A standard firing schedule would be all switches to low for 1-2 hours, all switches to medium for 1 hour, all switches to high until the Sitter shuts it off. Pretty much any instructions for a manual kiln will apply here.
The big question here is not knowing what sort of electrical requirements it has. The Sitter implies that the kiln will pull 45 amps or less, however I've seen kilns with a sitter that pull over 55 amps and run a section through a relay. The power cord and plug also imply that it will pull less than 50 amps, but there's no guarantee that the cord is the correct one for this kiln. Someone may have just put it on there without knowing what's correct. So the only way to know for sure is to check that all the elements are in good condition (not broken), and measure the resistance of the elements and math out the amperage draw. Once you know that, your electrician can install the correct electrical circuit for it to run on. Using the wrong size breaker and wiring for the circuit is a major safety issue, so this needs to be done right.
Do you have a multi-meter to measure the element resistance with?
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I'd get the Rohde. Better controller and cheaper elements.
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9 minutes ago, High Bridge Pottery said:
From a quick search it looks like the Rohde elements are about £100 cheaper too.
Good point. I recently got a quote from Nabertherm for a full set of elements for a Top 220 (8 elements) for $2030. That's a mighty expensive element change.
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Looks like they both have solid state relays and similar construction. The Nabertherm kilns are difficult to work on since they cram everything into the shallow hinge system. If the Rhode has a panel that's easier to access, then it would be worth the money to get the Rhode. And really, 190 is worth the better controller even if everything else is identical. I would also check with both and see if they actually take advantage of the SSRs ability to cycle at 500ms. To have SSR and switch them slowly like mechanical relays is a waste IMO.
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7 hours ago, ranna123 said:
These are the pictures. I only have outlets for 120v so I am assuming that since the whole kiln is 240v it won't work with a 120v outlet. Thank you!!
The 230V listed on the Kiln Sitter basically just means it's a 2 pole system. The serial plate is the real info for the kiln.
You're not going to find a kiln of any useable size that will work on a standard 15 amp 120 volt electrical outlet. Even the smallest test kilns need a 20 amp 120V circuit, which you may have in your garage. But that's going to be a very small kiln that would only hold 3-4 mugs at most. If you really want a kiln that is big enough to be worth the money, you'll need to have a 240 volt circuit run for the kiln. FYI, if you do pursue that, kilns must be on a breaker that is 25% greater than the draw of the kiln. So if you get a 24 amp kiln it has to be on a 30 amp breaker. A 28 amp kiln has to be on a 35 or 40 amp breaker, a 35 amp kiln on a 50 amp breaker, etc.
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4 segments will work for basic firings, but as mentioned above it gets tricky if you want to do holds. However, if you limit it to 1 hold per firing you'll be fine, and you really shouldn't need more than 1 hold per firing. When I bisque fire:
1. 200F/hr to 200F
2. Hold for however long I need to make sure the work is dry
3. 325F/hr to 1745
4. 108F/hr to 1945 (cone 04)
So 4 segments on your controller. You can easily do a glaze firing in 3 segments, or even 2 segments with a drop and slow cooling segment after the peak. It's a scam for them to make the better controller cost that much more.
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120/240 means that it needs to be wired up as a 4 wire circuit- 2 hots, 1 neutral, 1 ground- because the elements are set up so that each of the two sections of the kilns uses one of the 120 volt hot wires. Together the whole kiln is 240 volts, but internally it's like two separate 120 volt kilns. Post a pic of the serial plate, or at least tell us what the info says and we can give you more info on how to set it up.
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13 minutes ago, messyfox said:
Have you tried this yet?
How did it go?
Not sure you're going to get an answer since she hasn't posted anything else to forum since asking this question. But we can tag her @SarahFi and see if she responds. You can also send her a direct message by hovering over her icon and clicking on 'message'.
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I've run into 4 Brent wheels in the last month that all have bad controllers. All are the black flat-panel controller that doesn't have toggles and switches- see pic below. It was a problem controller from day one and it can't be repaired, only replaced. If you have that controller there's a good chance it's the problem.
Have you brought the wheel indoors? I'm wondering if humidity is affecting the controller from being outdoors. Open up the control box and let it dry out for a couple of days and see if it works any better.
Unfortunately, all of your symptoms could be caused by a problem with the controller, motor, or pedal. The motor would be at the bottom of my list. The pedal potentiometer is $100 so not cheap to replace just for testing, but it is the most common problem.
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If you have access to them, you could also just use a commercial underglaze and get the same effect. They come in a million colors and are already fluxed out.
Kiln is not reaching cone 6 temperature
in Equipment Use and Repair
Posted
How hot did you fire your bisque?