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New Wheel Woes.....


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#1 cstovin

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 07:17 PM

Hi all,

I just got a new to me wheel this weekend; it is a Brent EX and was used 2 times. I know this is a beginning wheel, but for where I am, that was fine plus I got it for a great price and the lady had only used it twice.

I got it setup today and have tried almost all day to get things centered; I am not an expert yet at centering, however have NEVER had this much trouble getting a small mound of clay centered, let along trying ll day and still not getting nothinganything centered. I finally asked my husband to come down and take a look with me. We took off the ball of clay I had on the bat, and noticed that the bat was slightly "wobbling" a little. I took off the bat and ran my finger along the edge of the wheel while it was turned on high speed, and there is a slight "shimmy". All the wheels at the art center where I have been going don't seem to have this little "shimmy", or if they have, I have never noticed it. Today I coned up, coned down, coned up, coned down, coned up....all I succeeded in was making a mess, and a mess, and a larger mess!


Could I have done this to the wheel when I transported it? If there is a slight shimmy in the wheel, could this be the cause of my centering whoes, or am I making a huge deal out of nothing (my husband things it isn't that bad....lol). If this IS the potential cause of my centering woes, what are my options for finding the cause of it? Or would I be better off parting with the wheel and saving my money for another one? (this one retails I believe for about $550)

Thank you for the help

Charlene

#2 neilestrick

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 08:18 PM

I've never had my hands on one of those wheels, but if possible, pull the wheel head and reset it to see if it will level out.
Neil Estrick
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#3 OffCenter

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 08:52 PM

I just got a new to me wheel this weekend; it is a Brent EX and was used 2 times. I know this is a beginning wheel, but for where I am, that was fine plus I got it for a great price and the lady had only used it twice.


The Brent EX is not a beginning wheel. It is the most powerful Brent wheel made and retails for around $1300.

Jim
E pur si muove.

"But it does move," said Galileo under his breath.

#4 Mark C.

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 09:09 PM

I think all brent wheel heads are pretty stuck on and are not designed to come off.The bearing and shaft and head are one.-This may be not true with a new one?
You will need to see if there is any wobble in the head without pins and bats-you can drag a tool like a needle tool or screwdriver shaft-your finger etc while it spins.
The only way I know that it is out of wack from transporting is it fell over or something fell on the head
No matter what bret model this is it should run true with zero wobble. No need to save for another wheel-If this ones bent you can order a new head whith bearing and it boldts on-thts worse case stuff and I'm guessing it's a wobbly bat isssue.
Mark
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#5 JBaymore

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 09:16 PM


I just got a new to me wheel this weekend; it is a Brent EX and was used 2 times. I know this is a beginning wheel, but for where I am, that was fine plus I got it for a great price and the lady had only used it twice.


The Brent EX is not a beginning wheel. It is the most powerful Brent wheel made and retails for around $1300.

Jim


If you got it cheap........ you got a steal!

http://www.amaco.com...39-s-wheel.html

best,

.................john
John Baymore
Immediate Past President; Potters Council
Professor of Ceramics; New Hampshire Insitute of Art

http://www.JohnBaymore.com

#6 cstovin

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 09:51 PM

My Mistake - I was right, it is a "beginner" wheel, I just got the wrong wheel - it is the "ie" model. Thank you Mark for the suggestion - I took off the Bat, it isn't the bat, it wobbles when I have everything off of it, and just have the wheel (no bat, pins, etc) on high and low speeds and it definately wobbles.


Today was the first time I tried to use it, but have no idea what else could be the issue......


I guess I better research how much a new head and bearing would cost, maybe call Amaco? I don't know where else to look or what to look at. I honestly don't know much about the wheels, just that they turn (I know, pretty niave) but this is the first time I have bought one, so I don't really know the mecahnics, etc. so thank you for all of the suggestions.

Charlene

#7 cstovin

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 09:57 PM

I just looked on the Amaco site, it doesn't say what new heads run - do you have any idea what new heads cost IF that is the problem?

#8 JBaymore

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 10:05 PM

If you are accurate in your observation and the wheel head is truly "wobbling" (out of true) THAT might be why you "got a good deal" on it. It is POSSIBLE that the previous owner knew that fact.

If it is wobbling....... and the head is tight on the shaft...... then the head itself got "whacked" somehow and is not at a true 90 degrees to the axis of the shaft all the way around.

It is nigh on impossible to put it back totally true, lacking the tools and skills of a machine shop. And even then it is not a piece of cake by any means.

An out of true wheelhead is not a problem for a really experienced thrower........ watch some folk potters wheels turn........ but for a less experienced person it makes things far harder.

Yeah... call Aamaco and see what it'll cost. And a sk them what the mechanical progression is for swapping it out too...... to make sure you know how to do it.


best,

..............john
John Baymore
Immediate Past President; Potters Council
Professor of Ceramics; New Hampshire Insitute of Art

http://www.JohnBaymore.com

#9 Mark C.

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 10:36 PM

Amaco has good service folks-they can tell you what the costs are and how to do it like John said above.
My guess is over 100$ But thats what I recall from the 80's when I changed out a 12 inch head for a 14 inch head (make sure you tell them the diameter)
You will need to remove bottom belt wheel with an allen wrench(soak some liquid wrench in the hole 1st) after loosing the belt tension. The wheel head assembly if I recall is 3 bolts and off it comes and the new one bolts back in place. Put pulley back on and your spining again after the belt is retensioned.
This is not a hard job.
Mark
Mark Cortright
www.liscomhillpottery.com

#10 yedrow

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 10:52 PM

If it is just a slight wobble it might be possible that the peddel speed is different from what you are used to. You might trying changing speeds while you are centering.

Joel.

#11 cstovin

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 11:52 PM

I just went downstairs to try to do maybe a short video, but you can't really see what I am talking about. The whole stand however kind of starts to wobble slightly. My issue when I looked at it, I didn't turn it on all the way :0(

But, I did notice before I turned it on, I measured the distance between the top edge of the wheel to the top of edge of the stand on the left side and the right side, and there is about 1/16" of a difference between the two. I know my husband means well, he doesn't think this is a big deal; however learning to center, this seems impossible! Now that I know there is a difference in height between the two sides of the wheel, I would suspect that it is definately bent.....

I did look up wheel assembly replacements, and they run about $180 which includes the wheel, bearing and shaft? But, could have bought a new one for that.....ugh...
Charlene

#12 OffCenter

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 08:20 AM

If you got it cheap........ you got a steal!

http://www.amaco.com...39-s-wheel.html



I bought mine when I started potting again several years ago and paid less than that for it at Big Ceramic Supply. This was the first price that came up when I checked them to make my post. http://www.clay-king...tery_wheel.html

Jim
E pur si muove.

"But it does move," said Galileo under his breath.

#13 OffCenter

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 08:29 AM

I just went downstairs to try to do maybe a short video, but you can't really see what I am talking about. The whole stand however kind of starts to wobble slightly. My issue when I looked at it, I didn't turn it on all the way :0(

But, I did notice before I turned it on, I measured the distance between the top edge of the wheel to the top of edge of the stand on the left side and the right side, and there is about 1/16" of a difference between the two. I know my husband means well, he doesn't think this is a big deal; however learning to center, this seems impossible! Now that I know there is a difference in height between the two sides of the wheel, I would suspect that it is definately bent.....

I did look up wheel assembly replacements, and they run about $180 which includes the wheel, bearing and shaft? But, could have bought a new one for that.....ugh...
Charlene


Where do you live? I'd love to have a wheel that is slightly off center. I bought a used Thomas Stuart kickwheel that someone was selling cheap because it had a wobble, but was disappointed to find out that it doesn't wobble. I've considered wacking my Brent but am afraid I'll do more damage than I want. I never use bats but since none of my wheels wobble I have to sometimes use a bat that I drilled extra holes in so that I can center using one set of holes then switch the bat to a different set of holes to get the wobble I want or to a third set of holes for even more wobble. You are so lucky to have a wheel that is not true.

Jim
E pur si muove.

"But it does move," said Galileo under his breath.

#14 JBaymore

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 08:46 AM

Jim,

There is a great sequence in the film "The Potters Of Hebron" (shot in Israel a long time ago) that I often show in some classes. I love to point out that the students should watch the wheelhead in one particular part..... as the guy swiftly throws an amazing earthenware form about 20"+ tall.......... and that wheelhead is wobbling about 1" out ot true. Posted Image

I have thrown on Japanese and Korean wooden kickwheels........ those are frequently not true.


That above being said, out of true does make it tougher for a newer person to center. They do';t have the skills base to draw from. Most at that level use the wheelhead as the "guide" to "calibrate" off of. They often use pressing down on the head to help steady the hands. And of course if the head is "off" true then the clay is off true. And if they are new, they are looking for the clay to run really true, because thay don't again have the skills to either center as they open and pull, or to throw skillfully an asymetrical form.

A more experienced thrower centers the clay in 3-d volumetric space irrespective of the wheelhead top surface. If the wheelhead is true....... they happen to correspond... if not true............... they don't.


best,

.....................john
John Baymore
Immediate Past President; Potters Council
Professor of Ceramics; New Hampshire Insitute of Art

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#15 High Bridge Pottery

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 09:19 AM

The potters of Hebron, that sounds like a good watch. Going to have a look to see if I can find it.

I had the problem to start with that I was using the wheel head as visual reference, after a while I end up hardly looking at the clay whilst centering. I imagine I have the blank look when somebody stares off into space not particularly looking at anything. Try and get into that frame of mind not particularly looking at anything then the clay might centre easier

                                                                                                                 1384226_215924051918490_1181728069_n.jpg


#16 JBaymore

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 09:40 AM

The potters of Hebron, that sounds like a good watch. Going to have a look to see if I can find it.

I had the problem to start with that I was using the wheel head as visual reference, after a while I end up hardly looking at the clay whilst centering. I imagine I have the blank look when somebody stares off into space not particularly looking at anything. Try and get into that frame of mind not particularly looking at anything then the clay might centre easier




You can get the "Potters of Hebron" video at Steven Branfman's "The Potters Shop" bookstore. Also check out what the Hebron potters fire the kilns with!!!!!

Perceptive comments on the "100 mile stare" business and the "too much eye" comment.

"Use The Force, Luke. reach out with youtr feelings. Your eyes can decieve you." Posted Image

best,

......................john
John Baymore
Immediate Past President; Potters Council
Professor of Ceramics; New Hampshire Insitute of Art

http://www.JohnBaymore.com

#17 TJR

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 10:19 AM


I just went downstairs to try to do maybe a short video, but you can't really see what I am talking about. The whole stand however kind of starts to wobble slightly. My issue when I looked at it, I didn't turn it on all the way :0(

But, I did notice before I turned it on, I measured the distance between the top edge of the wheel to the top of edge of the stand on the left side and the right side, and there is about 1/16" of a difference between the two. I know my husband means well, he doesn't think this is a big deal; however learning to center, this seems impossible! Now that I know there is a difference in height between the two sides of the wheel, I would suspect that it is definately bent.....

I did look up wheel assembly replacements, and they run about $180 which includes the wheel, bearing and shaft? But, could have bought a new one for that.....ugh...
Charlene


Where do you live? I'd love to have a wheel that is slightly off center. I bought a used Thomas Stuart kickwheel that someone was selling cheap because it had a wobble, but was disappointed to find out that it doesn't wobble. I've considered wacking my Brent but am afraid I'll do more damage than I want. I never use bats but since none of my wheels wobble I have to sometimes use a bat that I drilled extra holes in so that I can center using one set of holes then switch the bat to a different set of holes to get the wobble I want or to a third set of holes for even more wobble. You are so lucky to have a wheel that is not true.

Jim

Jim;
Please don't whack your Brent!!! I'm begging you! I noticed that your poys are pretty wobbly. I can teach you to centre, if you wish.Kidding!
TJR.

#18 cstovin

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 10:36 AM

I live in Independence Oregon.....probably too far from either of you guys..... I paid $350 for the wheel, and had to drive 4 hours one way to get it; granted I had a nice visit with my Aunt and Uncle while I waited for them to get home to pick it up!


I called Amaco, and the other thing they suggested was to check the "Set" screw that holds the whole assembly together? I looked at the user manual, and can't see where that is? Anyone have any guidance? She said to make sure it is tight. If it isn't tight - she said that is most likely my problem, if it is tight - then it is the wheel head is bent.
C.

#19 justanassembler

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 12:12 PM

I live in Independence Oregon.....probably too far from either of you guys..... I paid $350 for the wheel, and had to drive 4 hours one way to get it; granted I had a nice visit with my Aunt and Uncle while I waited for them to get home to pick it up!


I called Amaco, and the other thing they suggested was to check the "Set" screw that holds the whole assembly together? I looked at the user manual, and can't see where that is? Anyone have any guidance? She said to make sure it is tight. If it isn't tight - she said that is most likely my problem, if it is tight - then it is the wheel head is bent.
C.


Amaco should be able to guide you to the set screw, if there is one. Is this model one of the ones with the shaft, bearing and whee head all as one piece? They did make them both ways, and i don't recall ever seeing a setscrew on the all in one design. I think the parts are all pressed on and are not intended to be taken apart, i could be wrong though its been a while since I've worked on one. Call Amaco back, they should be able to based on your serial number walk you through EXACTLY where the screw they're referring to is, or to tell you that "oops, there isn't one on that model"

#20 cstovin

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 09:29 PM

Well, it isn't the set screw; we tightened everything up today, and it is better, but still the same problem? I did borrow a table top older wheel from a friend, and was able to get something centered on the first try on her old wheel. Granted the second attempt wasn't so good......but I have no idea what to do now....up a creek without a paddle. Granted, I am a little confused, I have seen these wheels on the internet for as little as $600; Georgies in Portland has them advertised for $980 or so...how can there be such a price difference?




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