Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
cstovin

New Wheel Woes.....

Recommended Posts

cstovin    2

Hi all,

 

I just got a new to me wheel this weekend; it is a Brent EX and was used 2 times. I know this is a beginning wheel, but for where I am, that was fine plus I got it for a great price and the lady had only used it twice.

 

I got it setup today and have tried almost all day to get things centered; I am not an expert yet at centering, however have NEVER had this much trouble getting a small mound of clay centered, let along trying ll day and still not getting nothinganything centered. I finally asked my husband to come down and take a look with me. We took off the ball of clay I had on the bat, and noticed that the bat was slightly "wobbling" a little. I took off the bat and ran my finger along the edge of the wheel while it was turned on high speed, and there is a slight "shimmy". All the wheels at the art center where I have been going don't seem to have this little "shimmy", or if they have, I have never noticed it. Today I coned up, coned down, coned up, coned down, coned up....all I succeeded in was making a mess, and a mess, and a larger mess!

 

 

Could I have done this to the wheel when I transported it? If there is a slight shimmy in the wheel, could this be the cause of my centering whoes, or am I making a huge deal out of nothing (my husband things it isn't that bad....lol). If this IS the potential cause of my centering woes, what are my options for finding the cause of it? Or would I be better off parting with the wheel and saving my money for another one? (this one retails I believe for about $550)

 

Thank you for the help

 

Charlene

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
OffCenter    82

I just got a new to me wheel this weekend; it is a Brent EX and was used 2 times. I know this is a beginning wheel, but for where I am, that was fine plus I got it for a great price and the lady had only used it twice.

 

 

 

The Brent EX is not a beginning wheel. It is the most powerful Brent wheel made and retails for around $1300.

 

Jim

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mark C.    1,806

I think all brent wheel heads are pretty stuck on and are not designed to come off.The bearing and shaft and head are one.-This may be not true with a new one?

You will need to see if there is any wobble in the head without pins and bats-you can drag a tool like a needle tool or screwdriver shaft-your finger etc while it spins.

The only way I know that it is out of wack from transporting is it fell over or something fell on the head

No matter what bret model this is it should run true with zero wobble. No need to save for another wheel-If this ones bent you can order a new head whith bearing and it boldts on-thts worse case stuff and I'm guessing it's a wobbly bat isssue.

Mark

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
JBaymore    1,432

I just got a new to me wheel this weekend; it is a Brent EX and was used 2 times. I know this is a beginning wheel, but for where I am, that was fine plus I got it for a great price and the lady had only used it twice.

 

 

 

The Brent EX is not a beginning wheel. It is the most powerful Brent wheel made and retails for around $1300.

 

Jim

 

 

If you got it cheap........ you got a steal!

 

http://www.amaco.com/shop/product-476-brent-ex-potter-39-s-wheel.html

 

best,

 

.................john

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
cstovin    2

My Mistake - I was right, it is a "beginner" wheel, I just got the wrong wheel - it is the "ie" model. Thank you Mark for the suggestion - I took off the Bat, it isn't the bat, it wobbles when I have everything off of it, and just have the wheel (no bat, pins, etc) on high and low speeds and it definately wobbles.

 

 

Today was the first time I tried to use it, but have no idea what else could be the issue......

 

 

I guess I better research how much a new head and bearing would cost, maybe call Amaco? I don't know where else to look or what to look at. I honestly don't know much about the wheels, just that they turn (I know, pretty niave) but this is the first time I have bought one, so I don't really know the mecahnics, etc. so thank you for all of the suggestions.

 

Charlene

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
JBaymore    1,432

If you are accurate in your observation and the wheel head is truly "wobbling" (out of true) THAT might be why you "got a good deal" on it. It is POSSIBLE that the previous owner knew that fact.

 

If it is wobbling....... and the head is tight on the shaft...... then the head itself got "whacked" somehow and is not at a true 90 degrees to the axis of the shaft all the way around.

 

It is nigh on impossible to put it back totally true, lacking the tools and skills of a machine shop. And even then it is not a piece of cake by any means.

 

An out of true wheelhead is not a problem for a really experienced thrower........ watch some folk potters wheels turn........ but for a less experienced person it makes things far harder.

 

Yeah... call Aamaco and see what it'll cost. And a sk them what the mechanical progression is for swapping it out too...... to make sure you know how to do it.

 

 

best,

 

..............john

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mark C.    1,806

Amaco has good service folks-they can tell you what the costs are and how to do it like John said above.

My guess is over 100$ But thats what I recall from the 80's when I changed out a 12 inch head for a 14 inch head (make sure you tell them the diameter)

You will need to remove bottom belt wheel with an allen wrench(soak some liquid wrench in the hole 1st) after loosing the belt tension. The wheel head assembly if I recall is 3 bolts and off it comes and the new one bolts back in place. Put pulley back on and your spining again after the belt is retensioned.

This is not a hard job.

Mark

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
yedrow    8

If it is just a slight wobble it might be possible that the peddel speed is different from what you are used to. You might trying changing speeds while you are centering.

 

Joel.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
cstovin    2

I just went downstairs to try to do maybe a short video, but you can't really see what I am talking about. The whole stand however kind of starts to wobble slightly. My issue when I looked at it, I didn't turn it on all the way :0(

 

But, I did notice before I turned it on, I measured the distance between the top edge of the wheel to the top of edge of the stand on the left side and the right side, and there is about 1/16" of a difference between the two. I know my husband means well, he doesn't think this is a big deal; however learning to center, this seems impossible! Now that I know there is a difference in height between the two sides of the wheel, I would suspect that it is definately bent.....

 

I did look up wheel assembly replacements, and they run about $180 which includes the wheel, bearing and shaft? But, could have bought a new one for that.....ugh...

Charlene

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
OffCenter    82

 

 

If you got it cheap........ you got a steal!

 

http://www.amaco.com...39-s-wheel.html

 

 

 

 

I bought mine when I started potting again several years ago and paid less than that for it at Big Ceramic Supply. This was the first price that came up when I checked them to make my post. http://www.clay-king.com/pottery_wheels/brent_pottery_wheels/brent_ex_pottery_wheel.html

 

Jim

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
OffCenter    82

I just went downstairs to try to do maybe a short video, but you can't really see what I am talking about. The whole stand however kind of starts to wobble slightly. My issue when I looked at it, I didn't turn it on all the way :0(

 

But, I did notice before I turned it on, I measured the distance between the top edge of the wheel to the top of edge of the stand on the left side and the right side, and there is about 1/16" of a difference between the two. I know my husband means well, he doesn't think this is a big deal; however learning to center, this seems impossible! Now that I know there is a difference in height between the two sides of the wheel, I would suspect that it is definately bent.....

 

I did look up wheel assembly replacements, and they run about $180 which includes the wheel, bearing and shaft? But, could have bought a new one for that.....ugh...

Charlene

 

 

Where do you live? I'd love to have a wheel that is slightly off center. I bought a used Thomas Stuart kickwheel that someone was selling cheap because it had a wobble, but was disappointed to find out that it doesn't wobble. I've considered wacking my Brent but am afraid I'll do more damage than I want. I never use bats but since none of my wheels wobble I have to sometimes use a bat that I drilled extra holes in so that I can center using one set of holes then switch the bat to a different set of holes to get the wobble I want or to a third set of holes for even more wobble. You are so lucky to have a wheel that is not true.

 

Jim

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
JBaymore    1,432

Jim,

 

There is a great sequence in the film "The Potters Of Hebron" (shot in Israel a long time ago) that I often show in some classes. I love to point out that the students should watch the wheelhead in one particular part..... as the guy swiftly throws an amazing earthenware form about 20"+ tall.......... and that wheelhead is wobbling about 1" out ot true. wink.gif

 

I have thrown on Japanese and Korean wooden kickwheels........ those are frequently not true.

 

 

That above being said, out of true does make it tougher for a newer person to center. They do';t have the skills base to draw from. Most at that level use the wheelhead as the "guide" to "calibrate" off of. They often use pressing down on the head to help steady the hands. And of course if the head is "off" true then the clay is off true. And if they are new, they are looking for the clay to run really true, because thay don't again have the skills to either center as they open and pull, or to throw skillfully an asymetrical form.

 

A more experienced thrower centers the clay in 3-d volumetric space irrespective of the wheelhead top surface. If the wheelhead is true....... they happen to correspond... if not true............... they don't.

 

 

best,

 

.....................john

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The potters of Hebron, that sounds like a good watch. Going to have a look to see if I can find it.

 

I had the problem to start with that I was using the wheel head as visual reference, after a while I end up hardly looking at the clay whilst centering. I imagine I have the blank look when somebody stares off into space not particularly looking at anything. Try and get into that frame of mind not particularly looking at anything then the clay might centre easier

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
JBaymore    1,432

The potters of Hebron, that sounds like a good watch. Going to have a look to see if I can find it.

 

I had the problem to start with that I was using the wheel head as visual reference, after a while I end up hardly looking at the clay whilst centering. I imagine I have the blank look when somebody stares off into space not particularly looking at anything. Try and get into that frame of mind not particularly looking at anything then the clay might centre easier

 

 

 

 

You can get the "Potters of Hebron" video at Steven Branfman's "The Potters Shop" bookstore. Also check out what the Hebron potters fire the kilns with!!!!!

 

Perceptive comments on the "100 mile stare" business and the "too much eye" comment.

 

"Use The Force, Luke. reach out with youtr feelings. Your eyes can decieve you." wink.gif

best,

 

......................john

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
TJR    359

I just went downstairs to try to do maybe a short video, but you can't really see what I am talking about. The whole stand however kind of starts to wobble slightly. My issue when I looked at it, I didn't turn it on all the way :0(

 

But, I did notice before I turned it on, I measured the distance between the top edge of the wheel to the top of edge of the stand on the left side and the right side, and there is about 1/16" of a difference between the two. I know my husband means well, he doesn't think this is a big deal; however learning to center, this seems impossible! Now that I know there is a difference in height between the two sides of the wheel, I would suspect that it is definately bent.....

 

I did look up wheel assembly replacements, and they run about $180 which includes the wheel, bearing and shaft? But, could have bought a new one for that.....ugh...

Charlene

 

 

Where do you live? I'd love to have a wheel that is slightly off center. I bought a used Thomas Stuart kickwheel that someone was selling cheap because it had a wobble, but was disappointed to find out that it doesn't wobble. I've considered wacking my Brent but am afraid I'll do more damage than I want. I never use bats but since none of my wheels wobble I have to sometimes use a bat that I drilled extra holes in so that I can center using one set of holes then switch the bat to a different set of holes to get the wobble I want or to a third set of holes for even more wobble. You are so lucky to have a wheel that is not true.

 

Jim

 

Jim;

Please don't whack your Brent!!! I'm begging you! I noticed that your poys are pretty wobbly. I can teach you to centre, if you wish.Kidding!

TJR.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
cstovin    2

I live in Independence Oregon.....probably too far from either of you guys..... I paid $350 for the wheel, and had to drive 4 hours one way to get it; granted I had a nice visit with my Aunt and Uncle while I waited for them to get home to pick it up!

 

 

I called Amaco, and the other thing they suggested was to check the "Set" screw that holds the whole assembly together? I looked at the user manual, and can't see where that is? Anyone have any guidance? She said to make sure it is tight. If it isn't tight - she said that is most likely my problem, if it is tight - then it is the wheel head is bent.

C.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I live in Independence Oregon.....probably too far from either of you guys..... I paid $350 for the wheel, and had to drive 4 hours one way to get it; granted I had a nice visit with my Aunt and Uncle while I waited for them to get home to pick it up!

 

 

I called Amaco, and the other thing they suggested was to check the "Set" screw that holds the whole assembly together? I looked at the user manual, and can't see where that is? Anyone have any guidance? She said to make sure it is tight. If it isn't tight - she said that is most likely my problem, if it is tight - then it is the wheel head is bent.

C.

 

 

Amaco should be able to guide you to the set screw, if there is one. Is this model one of the ones with the shaft, bearing and whee head all as one piece? They did make them both ways, and i don't recall ever seeing a setscrew on the all in one design. I think the parts are all pressed on and are not intended to be taken apart, i could be wrong though its been a while since I've worked on one. Call Amaco back, they should be able to based on your serial number walk you through EXACTLY where the screw they're referring to is, or to tell you that "oops, there isn't one on that model"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
cstovin    2

Well, it isn't the set screw; we tightened everything up today, and it is better, but still the same problem? I did borrow a table top older wheel from a friend, and was able to get something centered on the first try on her old wheel. Granted the second attempt wasn't so good......but I have no idea what to do now....up a creek without a paddle. Granted, I am a little confused, I have seen these wheels on the internet for as little as $600; Georgies in Portland has them advertised for $980 or so...how can there be such a price difference?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Biglou13    202

If you could set up a device to check wheel true "ness." Think truing stand for bicycle wheel.

 

First thought

place level on wheel and level as best as pos/bile with shims under legs.

Then with plumb bob, suspended independently above wheel check level ness which wheel turning.

Then check if wheel is centered by placing plumb bob at edge of wheel, this will Test centricity. At least you will know absolutely if its a wheel problem v. human error.

 

As bob said if latter is true it is still possible to center. Try centering with eyes closed and not touching bat or wheel.

Have you had someone else try and center and pull on your wheel?

 

 

Matrix quote

 

Spoon boy: Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only try to realize the truth.

Neo: What truth?

Spoon boy: There is no spoon.

Neo: There is no spoon?

Spoon boy: Then you'll see, that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself.

 

Replace bend with center and spoon with clay....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Chantay    101

This may sound obvious but,.. did you check under the feet of the wheel and make sure all the feet are flat on the floor. And then place a level on the the wheel head to see if it is level? When I first got my wheel and after I moved it once it took some time to level it. When it was unlevel it was extremely hard to center.

 

-chantay

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, it isn't the set screw; we tightened everything up today, and it is better, but still the same problem? I did borrow a table top older wheel from a friend, and was able to get something centered on the first try on her old wheel. Granted the second attempt wasn't so good......but I have no idea what to do now....up a creek without a paddle. Granted, I am a little confused, I have seen these wheels on the internet for as little as $600; Georgies in Portland has them advertised for $980 or so...how can there be such a price difference?

 

 

the reason that there is a price difference is that ~930 is the msrp. their cost is probably 40% of that. It is not uncommon to sell goods well below the msrp to attract buyers and to try to sell volume to make up for the lack of margin (or to make your real money on accessories which, in retail, usually carry a higher margin.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Claypple    29

 

 

I'd love to have a wheel that is slightly off center.

 

Jim

 

 

Dear Jim! For a reasonable price, I will off-center any pieces of clay for you even on a perfectly functioning and symmetrically centered wheel!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
bciskepottery    925

 

 

I'd love to have a wheel that is slightly off center.

 

Jim

 

 

Dear Jim! For a reasonable price, I will off-center any pieces of clay for you even on a perfectly functioning and symmetrically centered wheel!

 

 

 

You've got competition . . . http://www.marcspotterytools.com/

 

Or another approach to centering (Ruthanne Tudball demo) . . . http://www.youtube.com/embed/hpadOaQMR5o (thanks to June Perry's blog)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×