Backwards throwers and the spiral wedge

[Pyewackette]

Hulk posted these videos

She mentions that most people are doing it backwards, then makes a point of showing the direction of the spiral and how it compresses the clay when you center it along the spiral (with the wheel turning COUNTERclockwise).

Except I throw clockwise. 

Now mostly I wire wedge (aka "stack 'n slam") but lately I've been doing more ram's head wedging after wire wedging just to get it sort of cone shaped. I don't usually cone up and down.  And this is why I think it doesn't matter what "direction" the spiral is going or even if you have one.

I never have paid any attention to the direction of the clay when I slam that lump onto the bat.  I would guess that most times it ends up opposite to the way the wheel turns because I wedge like a righty but throw like a lefty.  I don't notice ANY DIFFERENCE AT ALL in how it centers and pulls, regardless of the wedging method.  The only time I get s cracks is when I let things dry too fast (and they show up pre-bisque).  I may have had something come out of a kiln cracked once, again, probably dried too fast but may not have compressed sufficiently.  It's not a "thing" with me.

I wedge to even the consistency of the clay out and to get rid of air bubbles.  There isn't a spiral at all when you wire wedge and that's mostly what I do.  And when I do ram's head, any spiral formed is going to go opposite to my direction of throw.  None of this seems to matter.  Any other lefties out there who have been unknowingly doing this?  Though I suppose a real lefty (as opposed to a hybrid lefty-righty like me) might be wedging "backwards" as well as throwing "backwards" ...

All this going round and round makes my head spin ... 

Seriously, I already have trouble telling my right from my left.  I also have trouble lining things up like this - what direction the wheel is turning and what direction a "spiral" in wedged clay (ram's head or spiral) is going - I'm not sure I could even do that at all.  I get real turned around real fast on these things.  TOO COMPLICATED.

[Dick White]

Yes, I too mostly wire and stack, it is more efficient and more effective at redistributing the uneveness of any clay that either just came out of the bag or has been sitting around longer than an hour or two. I always finish with a quick few times around of ram's head wedging, mostly just to make the squarish chunk round - it throws better when it is round... The ram's head method is more or less symmetrical  left and right, as opposed to the spiral method. After ram's head wedging it, I turn it to the left and stand it on end, rounding the end a bit to roll out any air pockets. Then it is ready to throw on the clockwise wheel, with the spiral from the ram's head rotating in the proper direction to tighten the spiral. For you, Pye, you are already doing all of this up to the very last step. Instead of turning the ram's head to the left, you turn it to the right and the spiral will be oriented properly for you throwing on a clockwise wheel.

[Pyewackette]

@Dick White Keeping in mind left/right is not an automatic thing for me - I wire wedge, then I do a few ram's head maneuvers, then what I do is turn it up in a clockwise direction so one side is now the top and one side is the bottom and its vaguely cone shaped.  If I understand what you are saying I THINK that's the same as "turning it to the right". I do that automatically but without prior thought.  Not sure why I get clockwise and counterclockwise but not left and right LOL!

If that's the case then it seems I'm already doing what you advise?  Which might explain why I haven't seemed to see any problems with "direction" of the spiral? (Because I've been doing it "right" by accident)

I also round out the bottom as you say before slamming it on the bat.

When you wire wedge, how much attention are you paying to the direction you slam the halves down?  Another thing I never paid any attention to.  Since seeing Michael Wendt and his stack and slam video where he makes a big deal about direction of the slabs, I make sure I don't lay the slabs crosswise across each other, but I can't do it the way he does it.  My slab turns into a rectangle almost immediately.  So I cut it whichever direction I need to to get it back to being squarish but lay the slabs back on top of each other with the cuts going the same direction, facing opposite directions from each other.  So if I cut it N-S I stack it with the cuts still going N-S.  If I cut it E-W (which is the way he ALWAYS does it and the way I start out) then I stack it that way too.  Its as close as I can get to his way, I don't know how he keeps his slabs from going rectangular.

I don't have a mounted wire so it takes longer but its my preferred method of wedging.  I'll put up a mounted wire at a wedging station after the move, no point in doing it here.

[LeeU]

1 hour ago, Pyewackette said:

I'll put up a mounted wire at a wedging station

You will love it! I had a friend make this simple metal base (it's what he had for free) w/a wire attached and it has saved my wrists and made prepping clay so much less of a chore!

[Pyewackette]

@LeeU I had one once, just didn't seem worthwhile to try to put that all up here what with a move being up in the air sorta imminently.  Definitely will have one again wherever we finally light.

 

Edited November 18, 2023 by Pyewackette

[Bill Kielb]

7 hours ago, Pyewackette said:

Seriously, I already have trouble telling my right from my left.  I also have trouble lining things up like this - what direction the wheel is turning and what direction a "spiral" in wedged clay (ram's head or spiral) is going - I'm not sure I could even do that at all.  I get real turned around real fast on these things.  TOO COMPLICATED.

In many many years, I have never found proof that one can polarize or directionally align reasonably wedged clay. I have not found that to be credible in my experience.

[Denice]

That is the method I was taught to wedge clay.   Denice

[neilestrick]

I have never seen the direction of the wedging to have any effect on my throwing or any of my students' throwing. Once you cone the clay a couple of times during centering, any wedging spiral is gone. IMO she is overthinking the process, or finding something to blame for poor centering technique. I have wedged 'backwards' of the way she's showing for 30 years, and I've never had any issues. Same with my students. Wedge it, make it into a ball, smack it onto the wheelhead, and center it. With good coning technique it doesn't matter which way it was wedged.

[Dick White]

@PyewacketteYup, you are doing it right already. When the wedged roll is sitting on its side lengthwise in front of you, standing it up clockwise is tilting it to the right. As for the stacking direction during the wire and stack, the only thing that matters IMO is keeping the layers of each half stacked parallel to the table. The concept is doubling the number of layers with each stack, and squishing them down to half their thickness from the previous stack. When showing the students, I keep a running count of the number of layers - 1 (the original block), 2, 4, 8, etc. Ten cuts and stacks yields 1,024 layers, each 1/1024 the thickness of the original block, intermixed so thoroughly you can't tell where any "lump" or dry or wet area from the original block is anymore. Ten more cuts and stacks puts you at over 1 million mixed layers. With the students, I usually start with one chunk of light clay and one of dark clay. Each cut I show them the colored striations of the layers, until somewhere around 15 cuts, it is totally uniform and there are no more stripes of color. As for orientation of rotation, I don't consciously worry. I have a very rhythmic lift of the block through the wire, and then rotate one wrist to slap that piece down upside down from its position when I pulled it up through the wire, and then immediately rotate the other wrist to slap that half down on top of the first piece. Twang whack whack. Twang whack whack.

[Pres]

I slice and slam my bags of recycle often with part of a freshly opened bag. I use a wiggle wire to do this, and spray water between layers. After cutting through the blocks once to combine I slam and re-block to cut from another direction until all sides have been cut and slammed. Then the clay gets wedged using the cone method. I started doing the same as her putting the point down when I found that large plates would seem to survive better in that manner.  My biggest complaint of the video. . .  as much as she explains the process and demonstrates it well, her wedging table is very inefficient!   The table should be lower so that the wedging motion uses more of the shoulder and body to move the clay. When I wedge, the motion of the wedging lifts the shoulders and stretches the spine. . . that is why I have said so often that I wedging relieves the pain in my back. The rocking and stretching helps a lot, especially on days when the weather change causes those old aches from old injuries to flair up.

IMHO

 

best,

Pres

[Callie Beller Diesel]

I too have been “wedging backwards” for 30 years. Difference is, instead of putting the pointy end of the cone down as in the video, I land the clay on the big round end of the cone that’s already formed. After smoothing out the spiral shape so it doesn’t trap air. That part’s kind of important. I cut slam all my reclaim, because it really does result in a nicer mix. I don’t have the fancy post on my wedging table. I just lay out my cutting wire and slam the clay on top of it. 

I will say concentrating on your core and using your body weight rather than killing your shoulders is a solid point, though.