Looking for Clay Bodies that Present Raw like Japanese

[ThruTraffic]

Only interested in texture.

How do I get clay like this without shipping it from Japan (in particular the top left and bottom right)? Are these clay bodies something I can create with Laguna or Highwater clays just by adding grog? Is grog the only conclusion or are other chemicals/materials required.

If grog is the answer what type/mesh is best and what percentage is required?

Edited January 20, 2023 by ThruTraffic
Topic traffic control.

[Joseph Fireborn]

Hi!

You can definitely create this on your own. I do it in small batches because I don't have a mixer.

Find a ratio of sand, grog, and grit(if you want it super chunky). I sprinkle the mixture onto a wedging surface. Then I take about 5-10 pounds of clay sliced up into cubes. I place the cubes on the mixture and roll them around. Then I slam wedge all the pieces together for a bit, then spiral wedge it and slice it apart into throwing balls.

I will say learning to throw this type of clay takes practice because it will eat your hands apart very quickly. Particularly if you add the grit.

https://www.starworksnc.org/starworks-clay

If you are local to the south east USA. Starworks clay makes a clay that resembles of the above clays:

Grogeewemee 10

This is the coarsest clay we make. It is based on OkeeMedium 10 with added coarse grog.  Perfect for larger scale coil building and slab work. The Grogeewemee 10 clay body works very well in wood or salt kilns.

Cone 10-12, Average Shrinkage at cone 10 OX = 11.94%, Average Water Absorption at cone 10 OX = 3.95%, Contains 19.5% Mullite, Kyanite and coarse grog

I have handled it in person and it is very nice.

Edited January 20, 2023 by Joseph Fireborn

[Jeff Longtin]

Is it the color or the texture that grabs your interest more? This looks like a palette of Mason stains. (in a body with sand or grog?)

Bottom right looks like  Coral Brown while top left looks like Chestnut or Hazelnut? The Center colors, left and right, might be Golden Brown and Woodland? Bottom left could be Taupe?

 

[PeterH]

5 hours ago, ThruTraffic said:

How do I get clay like this without shipping it from Japan

These seem to be "wild" North Carolina clays (singly or as mixtures?). I've no idea if/where they might be bought, or how they might be approximated from commercial clays.  Jeff makes a good point: if you are approximating the look of these clays then  stains could simplify the process, especially if you wanted a palette of colours.

From Wild Clay: The Story of NC Clay https://www.woodfirenc.com/wild-clay
Sorry about the text size.

Also see
https://bandanapottery.com/materials

Our main clay body…

Our main clay body is mostly (75%) comprised of a mixture of two clays from our area: A coarse, red clay that is near our home in the higher mountains, and a more plastic grey clay that settled near a creek bed further down the mountain. We mix these wild clays into a slip and pour them through a screen into a large feed tank. The screening process is one of the first aesthetic and expressive decisions we make- the size of the screen determines the final landscape of particles in the clay beneath our slips and glazes. While dark in color, both these clays are so refractory in their pure state that we still need to add feldspar to the body to make it vitrify and hold water at stoneware temperatures. We also found that we need to add small amounts of ball clay, sand, and silica to our clay body to be durable and make the glazes fit. This brings up an important and interesting question- how much do we tame a clay to meet our functional expectations, and how much do we adapt and learn from the beautiful (and limiting) qualities that drew us to the wild clay in the first place?

 

[PeterH]

5 hours ago, ThruTraffic said:

How do I get clay like this without shipping it from Japan

These seem to be "wild" North Carolina clays (singly or as mixtures?). I've no idea if/where they might be bought, or how they might be approximated from commercial clays.  Jeff makes a good point: if you are approximating the look of these clays then  stains could simplify the process, especially if you wanted a palette of colours.

From Wild Clay: The Story of NC Clay https://www.woodfirenc.com/wild-clay
Sorry about the text size.

Also see
https://bandanapottery.com/materials

Our main clay body…

Our main clay body is mostly (75%) comprised of a mixture of two clays from our area: A coarse, red clay that is near our home in the higher mountains, and a more plastic grey clay that settled near a creek bed further down the mountain. We mix these wild clays into a slip and pour them through a screen into a large feed tank. The screening process is one of the first aesthetic and expressive decisions we make- the size of the screen determines the final landscape of particles in the clay beneath our slips and glazes. While dark in color, both these clays are so refractory in their pure state that we still need to add feldspar to the body to make it vitrify and hold water at stoneware temperatures. We also found that we need to add small amounts of ball clay, sand, and silica to our clay body to be durable and make the glazes fit. This brings up an important and interesting question- how much do we tame a clay to meet our functional expectations, and how much do we adapt and learn from the beautiful (and limiting) qualities that drew us to the wild clay in the first place?

PS Re Joseph's mention of Grogeewemee 10, here is a picture

[ThruTraffic]

2 hours ago, Jeff Longtin said:

Is it the color or the texture that grabs your interest more? This looks like a palette of Mason stains. (in a body with sand or grog?)

Bottom right looks like  Coral Brown while top left looks like Chestnut or Hazelnut? The Center colors, left and right, might be Golden Brown and Woodland? Bottom left could be Taupe?

 

Only interested in texture.

[Russ]

Most "large sculpture" clays contain a fair amount of grog either silica sand, mulcoa, granular feldspar or other additive all in a rather coarse grade. Any of these can be purchased online and added to your clay or you might try a sculpture clay.

[Denice]

Saw dust gives clay a rough surface after it's fired, you can press chips of wood into it when you are finished throwing it for bigger gouges.  I have a pot made by a man and wife team,  they gave everyone a unsigned unglazed small bowl from the seminar.  The top of the bowl has a beautiful tear.  they were using  a Cone 10 stoneware. I think you can mix sawdust in any clay you have.   It has been 20 years ago so my memory may be a little off.    Denice

[Jeff Longtin]

Do you know what we're looking at, btw? My guess is teabowls, thrown on the hump, and trimmed quickly. The "trimmed quickly" is probably one reason for the exagerated texture. A grog, most likely sand, is another contributor. And lastly, probably a fairly unplastic clay body. Those three things contribute to the quality you seek.

[ThruTraffic]

3 minutes ago, Jeff Longtin said:

Do you know what we're looking at, btw? My guess is teabowls, thrown on the hump, and trimmed quickly. The "trimmed quickly" is probably one reason for the exaggerated texture. A grog, most likely sand, is another contributor. And lastly, probably a fairly unplastic clay body. Those three things contribute to the quality you seek.

No idea. I just found the photo exhibited the coarseness I'm interested in. Chawan tea bowls and kurinuki objects are my general target though; some sculpture ideas too (Michikawa/ Matsuzaki type objects.

[Callie Beller Diesel]

Funnily enough, @ThruTraffic’s inspo image is from Bandanna Pottery’s instagram, one of the links Peter posted about.  I recognized it right off, but if you’re ever wondering about the provenance of an image, reverse image search is a pretty fun toy.

So good news! That clay is already in your back yard, no orders from overseas necessary. They’ve got their process described in the link Peter posted. If you don’t want to dig your own, I’d check out Highwater’s catalog, and look at adjusting one of their bodies. They might even have something that’s already what you’re looking for.

Because I’ve been following Naomi Dagliesh and her husband for a few years now, I know the clay is pretty short, and she cuts those feet with the edge of a wooden rib. It leaves the grit they add to the clay exposed. They get that texture only partly from the material: technique is significant as well. 

Edited January 22, 2023 by Callie Beller Diesel
Finished the sentence.

[Joseph Fireborn]

On 1/22/2023 at 11:04 AM, Callie Beller Diesel said:

Because I’ve been following Naomi Dagliesh and her husband for a few years now, I know the clay is pretty short, and she cuts those feet with the edge of a wooden rib. It leaves the grit they add to the clay exposed. They get that texture only partly from the material: technique is significant as well.

This is super important. I am glad you wrote this Callie. I completely forgot about the techniques that add to the bodies.

When I was working with the bodies, I hand trimmed everything on a banding wheel and a wooden knife, just ripped it away. Lots of failures until I got the hang of it.

 

 

Edited January 24, 2023 by Joseph Fireborn