QotW: Have you ever had a formal, or informal coach, assist you with your throwing skills? How about with anything that you do, sport wise, cooking, any skill?

[Pres]

Hi folks, realize that this is quite late, but I was stumped! However, a recent revival of a post in another category came up, and got me to thinking, I know the smell must be terrible with all these old circuits burning up! Anyway, Q0tW:

QotW: Have you ever had a formal, or informal coach, assist you with your throwing skills? How about with anything that you do, sport wise, cooking, any skill?

I have never had a coach for throwing, but having taught numerous others and acted as a coach for many adults, I have found that I have been my own coach. I constantly watch for "chicken winging" poor posture, not bracing, matching my hand motions to wheel speed, correct form when pulling, and proper pressure throughout the process.  I have had teachers, and the difference between a teacher and a coach is not as slight as you would think. A teacher teaches a process, helps you with the fundamentals, safety, hand positions and other mechanics, and often lets you learn the fine nuances on your own. A coach takes what you have learned and helps you apply the fundamentals in such a way as to succeed in doing the process in the most efficient manner possible.  A coach works with what you have, where as a teacher provides all with the basics. 

I once helped another undergrad student with throwing. She was one handed from birth. She was all frustrated with throwing because she saw throwing as needing two hands. She was very successful at other tasks, having learned to cope with only one hand to do many things. I got her to realize that the one handless arm could open deeply and narrowly, and that the tip of the arm could be angled to use as a pressure point. We jacked her chair higher, got her posture position angled to allow the handless arm to work with the shoulder high while the other hand worked outside to pull with that shoulder low. About week afterward she was centering and pulling using the arm on the one hand and the hand of the other to center. Pulling happened two weeks after wards and she never looked back. Have often wondered about her.  

I have had informal coaches when bowling, playing tennis, racket ball and other sports. Dad would act as my coach i much of this in the beginning, then other team mates. Some would make suggestions, others would ask questions. Seems many did not want to intrude, as they would think I would be insulted if they tried to help?!! However they would realize in the end, that I was just as apt to take suggestions as give them.

 

best,

Pres 

[Hulk]

This'n' got me thinkin' a'righ' - how are coaching and teaching distinguished?

But first, the question, nah, Wheel I and Wheel II were demo then go, with one and one and/or small group when student(s) obviously struggling, also when help requested. Per prior, I was, and still am good with that. As far as other skills, activities, etc., yah, got some coaching in sports, a few classes, music, some trade skills here and there - it's been a while! 

Back t'th' thinkin' part - seems to me there's considerable overlap (gray area) between coaching and teaching.

For starters, distinguishment (ah, it is "a word", ah checked): teaching may involve more subjects/students in prescribed sessions, over a set period, following "the plan," where performance objectives are defined aforehand, and subject progress is tested against them. Coaching may involve more time with subjects - longer sessions, over a longer period, where there Coach may have fewer subjects to work with each day, the objectives are more individualized, and "the plan" may be much less reflective of governing bodies' requirements, testing, etc. A teacher may have 150 (or more) students each day, each class may include thirty or more, for less than an hour at a time. A coach may have a third that many each day, spread over several hours, where some subjects may log years o' time.

However, Special Needs Ed can be very much be tailored to the individuals - Individual Education Plan requirements, etc., where the teaching is rather coachy.

However II, a lot of sport coaching is mass activity, very little individuation at all, where the coaching is rather teachy, one size fits all, where the real "fit" may be for the star(s).

Hmm

The Captain of Oakland Police Department's Juvenile Division said this to me, "There'll never be enough adults interested in kids in this neighborhood." Ah found that to be absolutely true, any 'hood, anywhere. I'll stretch that to there'll never be enough really good teachers and coaches in any neighborhood, anywhere. My observation, about a third to half of coaches should be immediately removed from the gyms, playing fields, pool decks - take a chance on whoever's next. My observation II, oooh, I'll keep to mysel'

[Bill Kielb]

It’s an interesting question as teachers have styles and coaches as well. The line between fundamentals and my preference to apply a fundamental in a certain way definitely exists. Interestingly a portion of clay are manual dexterous skills to which individual kinesiology ought to have a significant influence.  When I taught, I wanted to make sure my students had fundamental engineering skills, but after that, I would say go out and learn more, apply and develop your skills for when we meet next, I hope to hear you say, look at what I can do now or look at what I found out!  Fortunately that has happened enough to me over 30 plus years.

Is that teaching? Coaching? Maybe just encouraging.folks to be the best they want to be. It works for me, but by no means is “the” style. Elite athletes often need to fine  tune their abilities, maximize their positives and minimize their negatives. Sometimes an outside set of eyes helps understand where to improve as feel and real often differ.

Back to the question, I have had good formal instruction, good coaching, mostly informal actually and of course average instruction and “bad coaching”.  When I was in High School they would allow a pitcher to throw his  arm off his  shoulder……… and  a rotator cuff later, I did. Bad coach? Just not as knowledgeable as today I think. But for the purpose of the question - bad coaching.

For me I like watching what others can do and observe how and why they are successful then try and incorporate into my motion, approach, etc… For me I have always had to figure out for myself what works best for me applying some fundamental and if lucky, discover the reason why it really works for me.

My idea of coaching changed after becoming certified as a trainer for a time. The study of kinesiology enlightened my views on how folks could achieve certain movements effectively for themselves but maybe comparatively differently.

Moe Norman, very famous Canadian golfer premier ball striker may have been quirky for some, but his advice always rings clear whenever I listen to him. Folks wanted to know his secret, but I believe he really felt that everyone should figure out their secrets. They should focus and practice what works for them. Moe was just amazingly focused on him so he would exclaim just practice the right things! Don’t waste your time practicing someone else’s method, etc…. just practice what works for you …… simple! Today’s most efficient way may end up as tomorrow’s outdated way.

Having said all that, I was certainly guilty of saying run as fast as you can to get to the spot where that pop fly is gonna be. Holding your hands up flailing and running backwards probably ain’t gonna do it. Today I would add, if you find a quicker way, show the rest of the team. I must be evolving as a coach.

Edited November 11, 2021 by Bill Kielb

[Mark C.]

For me coaching was from the start as a kid. My older brothers where track stars-one was 11 years older the other 5 years older. The oldest went on to be Stanfords best high hurdler (on a scholarship) and went on to be an olympic athlete . The other was also on the record books so by the time I was in Junior high the coaches all knew what I was capable of. I grew up with a pole valult and high jump pit in backyard. I was the Junior highs best jumper. Turns out my older brother pulled his achilles tendon the meet befor the plane left for Toyko Olympics in 64 and dashed him from the team. He then quit his doctors training path and became an art professor later for 25 years in the california UC stystem at UCSB Santa Barbara in print making.  He died of melanoma cancer in 92. My other brother also excelled at art but took his life at 23.That  brother made it almost thru High school before his art interests overran the coaches interests . For me in Junior high seeing both brothers records still on the board the coaches (all track and fild and some gymnastics) had big plans and worked me to death. In late 9th grade I had enough as I wanted to just high jump and they wanted me to run track as well. I have medals from those days still in the long runs 400 and 800 meters and and relays but the high jump records are what I really liked (the western roll at that time). At some point in an endless running around the track one day  in May in 9th grade I had had enough . I told the coach I was done running for him and he should do the 20 laps that day. I turned my interests to art like all my brothers before me. The rest is history except I really cut my own path thru school and beyond. 

For me coaches are all in my past. What I learned form coaches is I was not meant to be in the herd with the rest I excelled on my own paths-What they learned is I was a independent thinker and most coaches where NOT

Edited November 11, 2021 by Mark C.

[shawnhar]

Never had a coach of any kind.

[LeeU]

I have formally coached many others, mostly in the context of behavioral health service delivery. I believe coaching must be individualized and conducted as a partnership,  in tandem w/some essential teaching. The person being coached must build an infrastructure from the learning and application of the steps needed to reach their goal. The interim objectives may or may not be defined/disclosed to the one being coached, based on their needs to know/not know.  Someone with ADHD who has no sense of object permanence and never knows where they put anything, is going to need coaching to reorganize their kitchen that will be very different in approach from the approach needed for someone with OCD, who knows where every item is at all times and is highly  discomforted at moving anything to another location.  The goal for a more functional kitchen may be the same, but the process to get there will be different.  Coaching is best when supportive & motivational at its core. It is a tricky balance to demonstrate acceptance of where a person "is at" while also playing drill sergeant to get 'em moving! My own coach was a highly specialized therapist (treated & basically cured my complex post trauma stress injuries) who had subsequently moved from psychology to individual life coaching (works  w/VIP athletes these days). Post-therapy, he life-coached me in my return to ceramics. The practicality of his coaching enabled me to ID and accept certain limitations, while maximizing my strengths. I now sustain a much higher level of functionality in all aspects of day-to-day living. Being able to maintain some creativity (claywork/photography etc.)  in the "survival mix" infuses me w/the will to keep on truckin'.

Edited November 13, 2021 by LeeU

[Roberta12]

Specifically for pottery, yes.  I have had people work with me to improve, I have taken a few private lessons, and as soon as my schedule and bank account would allow, I started taking workshops.  Like most others have responded, I study, read, watch, rinse and repeat.  More recently I have taken online classes and rented teaching videos @GEP being a person I have watched in order to learn specific skills.  

I love the classroom format and have taken classes over the years for anything that I really wanted to know more about.  

Roberta