DirtRoads

This topic reinforces my decision to only buy NEW kilns.
 

Someone on this board once gave me the idea of having a "gallery" line in addition to my production line.  I've sold a few higher priced pieces since that time.   For me that's $200 - $450.   Ok, I am going with this interior designer in Atlanta.    They will just put my pieces in houses they do and add the price, itemized.   The deal is that I will do hand built only for them.   At the moment, they only want 2 colors, both white matte with accent colors.    Currently they get a 30% discount from places like Restoration Hardware.    They are just adding one piece per house, and are taking a 30% commission, at a price that is way way above what I would ever mark my items here.   I'll post a picture of the first sale I made.   I picked Atlanta because my family travels to Atlanta at least once a month.     I've leaving 4 or 5 pieces with them and they will send me a check upon sale.    They just mailed me a check for this item (check to avoid cc fees) and it will be delivered when someone goes to Atlanta.    I'm confident this is a trustworthy source, due to the houses I've been in that they have done.  I have agreed to just sign the items Sharon A. Grimes (no Dirt Roads).   And I will do a small bio poster to put with the work and a website SharonAGrimesartist.com for their exclusive promotion.   I will refer all calls to them.    Let me go take a picture.

Your right people who wander into my studio would be thrilled if I gave them a pot.   But they aren't so thrilled when you give them a price.    Denice

I think a few people have suggested similar methods over the years, although I can’t remember who would have suggested selling under 2 different names for the lines. 
Most of us who make dinnerware and other functional stuff do some form of more art based work at some point, although not everyone goes with 2 separate and concurrently produced product lines. I see more jewellers and graphic artists have 2 different names for their bread and butter vs art lines like this, but it’s not unheard of. 
I think getting in with an established interior design firm with a wealthy clientele is a very good way of finding someone who can help you realize a higher price point. I can see it having some positives, in that they’ll be used to a certain set of professionalism rules, and payment timelines. I think being familiar with the business and their reputation both on the client and vendor end is a really smart idea. 

Someone on this board once gave me the idea of having a "gallery" line in addition to my production line.  I've sold a few higher priced pieces since that time.   For me that's $200 - $450.   Ok, I am going with this interior designer in Atlanta.    They will just put my pieces in houses they do and add the price, itemized.   The deal is that I will do hand built only for them.   At the moment, they only want 2 colors, both white matte with accent colors.    Currently they get a 30% discount from places like Restoration Hardware.    They are just adding one piece per house, and are taking a 30% commission, at a price that is way way above what I would ever mark my items here.   I'll post a picture of the first sale I made.   I picked Atlanta because my family travels to Atlanta at least once a month.     I've leaving 4 or 5 pieces with them and they will send me a check upon sale.    They just mailed me a check for this item (check to avoid cc fees) and it will be delivered when someone goes to Atlanta.    I'm confident this is a trustworthy source, due to the houses I've been in that they have done.  I have agreed to just sign the items Sharon A. Grimes (no Dirt Roads).   And I will do a small bio poster to put with the work and a website SharonAGrimesartist.com for their exclusive promotion.   I will refer all calls to them.    Let me go take a picture.

Someone on this board once gave me the idea of having a "gallery" line in addition to my production line.  I've sold a few higher priced pieces since that time.   For me that's $200 - $450.   Ok, I am going with this interior designer in Atlanta.    They will just put my pieces in houses they do and add the price, itemized.   The deal is that I will do hand built only for them.   At the moment, they only want 2 colors, both white matte with accent colors.    Currently they get a 30% discount from places like Restoration Hardware.    They are just adding one piece per house, and are taking a 30% commission, at a price that is way way above what I would ever mark my items here.   I'll post a picture of the first sale I made.   I picked Atlanta because my family travels to Atlanta at least once a month.     I've leaving 4 or 5 pieces with them and they will send me a check upon sale.    They just mailed me a check for this item (check to avoid cc fees) and it will be delivered when someone goes to Atlanta.    I'm confident this is a trustworthy source, due to the houses I've been in that they have done.  I have agreed to just sign the items Sharon A. Grimes (no Dirt Roads).   And I will do a small bio poster to put with the work and a website SharonAGrimesartist.com for their exclusive promotion.   I will refer all calls to them.    Let me go take a picture.

Lots  of people want to pay more,  they think it has better quality and design when it cost more.  You could mark a teapot for 80 dollars and it would just sit there,  mark it 150 dollars and it would sell.   You might even give them a 10 percent discount,  the discount makes them feel like an wheeler dealer and  often becomes a loyal customer.   I had a wallpaper\paint store for twenty years  and quickly figured out what type of customer I wanted to sell to.      Denice

If I'm wholesaling to a fancy gallery I ask about 2/3 my price (thats 60-70%) . They mark it up double .I do the same at my 50/50 consignment gallery about 2/3 my retail price but I hardly retail anymore these days.

The last art gallery I was in was probably 20 years ago in a different economic climate. The owners were good human beings, but the rent on the place wasn’t feasible and they wound up closing down. Everyone got their work back, but not any outstanding payments from the previous month. 
I don’t make high end art work, and I’m not personally motivated at all by ego or prestige, so I don’t really feel the need to chase down opportunities like that. But I am keenly aware that others don’t share my opinion. There’s nothing wrong with wanting to be in a gallery, but I haven’t seen it be a particularly lucrative income stream from anyone in my generation (Gen X) or younger working in clay. I’ve seen it bring travel and teaching opportunities and other fun things to some, which can be something. But no one I know who makes full time does galleries for anything other than an ego rub. And if that makes someone happy, give ‘er!
IMO if the gallery insists on the artist being responsible for any shipping fees, including return on items that don’t sell, I’d rather sell it wholesale and not worry about when I’m going to get a consignment cheque or how much it’ll be.  

Context: I am a low volume producer. I have a day job for money. Not trying to make money at it, just want to make better pots today than I did yesterday. My pots are expensive because there’s a lot to them and they’re good (Not because they take a long time to make, that’s totally different. If it takes you a long time to make a pot it could mean you’re just not very skilled at it). I price them at what they’re worth, maybe less. 
Galleries take between 40-50%. I have one gallery, it’s befitting to the quality of my work. Sometimes people ask where they can find my pots, this gives me a place to send them. It’s a special relationship, less about sales than having my stuff in the right place. I could hustle and get it all over town, but it’s not seen properly unless it’s in the right context.
That said, I can just as well store my stuff on shelves in the gallery as I do in boxes in my closet. The gallery might actually sell something. I, on the other hand, sell once a year. A holiday sale where I keep 100% minus the tiny overhead. That’s where the money comes from. But here’s the thing- I’ve had people buy at the holiday sale who first found my work in the gallery. I’ve had buyers at the sale ask where else they can find my stuff. Like I said, special relationship. Less about money than it is about people and personal connections, for me. 

I used to do a lot of wholesale work via trade shows, so I’ve worked with dozens of galleries. They come in a wide range from “grifters” to “well-intentioned incompetent” all the way to “craft industry superhero.” So whether this particular opportunity is a good idea depends a lot on the quality of the humans behind it. 
If it’s consignment, I would ask for a contract that allows you to take the work back whenever you want, for any reason. If they haven’t paid for it, they shouldn’t be able to stop you from having it back. 
If it’s wholesale, then just make sure to charge a wholesale price for the first order that satisfies you, whether the relationship becomes more fruitful or not. Then see how it goes. 
Ultimately I decided that selling my work wholesale was not worth the discount, and I made a much better profit selling directly and without a middleman. However, the margins were better for the higher end pieces (large platters and such) than they were for the mugs. So if that’s the type of work they want, and they have a customer base that will buy it, then there’s good potential. 

Many years ago I put some  pots that I had made in the Anazai research group.   I had a friend that sold beautiful handmade furniture there and told me it was a great place.   I had left a few pots there,  when I went back to check on them  I heard her tell a customer who was looking at my work that they could buy it much cheaper in Taos.  I grabbed my work and left,  I found out later that they had stolen the business from their daughter.   She was in the hospital,  they told her she was dying and had here sign the business over to them.   They cheated everyone they could,  never did pay our friend for a $2000 cabinet they sold just before they skipped town.  Like Marc  I have sold work at more good galleries than bad.   Denice

Most are 50% these days on consignment. Make sure they have been in business long time and have a good reputation.
I have had a few for many many decades.I trust them. I also long ago had some bad ones I dropped. One I turned into whole sale only about 10 yaers ago  and still do bus with after 50 years now.
 

Tell me about galleries and your experience.   I've been approached about the more expensive pieces in my line, which are $200 and up.  That I am marketing under my name "Sharon A. Grimes" and not Dirt Roads Pottery.

Yeah I ordered 4000 lbs back in November and didn't get until February.     They were out of something ... I want to think they said Magnesium?    Funny, I was like Mark and had just around 1000 pounds when it came in.   However, this year I have ZERO employees in the back.   Plus I'm supplementing with slip casted wares (like mugs and vases).     I'm going to make do with this 5000 pounds for the year.   I will be cutting back but have raised prices.   Not running a "production" side business now, it's more supply based.   Customers are willing to pay more and I continually remind them I am 65 now, and won't be doing this forever.     And they are buying "extra".   I tell them "if you see something you really want, get it now."
Oh I use Laguna stoneware #65, hard mixed to 7.5.   I think normal is 6.2.  Really have enjoyed my Laguna clay and glazes over the years.  Cheers to that company!  Really excellent service.
 

I don't think that 'work' in itself is the issue. Rather, it's the type of work. Some people can work for hours and hours with spreadsheets on a computer and have no problem with it. Some folks install shingles all day or frame houses. Some teach kids. I can work hard all day in the studio but I would hate other jobs. It's a matter of finding the work that you enjoy, and if you're not totally into clay then it's not going to be work you want to do all day.

Well the one thing that stands out to me is that from hobby to pro is very different than say a college student who choose studio pottery as their profession. As a hobby, after a day in front of a computer, throwing a dozen mugs might be a blast and having to fill a kiln 3x a week and sell  4-500 pots a month not so much. As an alternative to building a business 100% pottery one can consider pottery being a component

I totally agree here, but not everyone is capable of doing this physically day in and out. I wasn't and it is one of the main reasons I decided to stop. I kept trying but my body wouldn't let me due to health issues from the past. Your statement alone that it takes decades to develop your body into the machine required basically sums it up. At some point you have to make pots to sell pots, and if you cannot make pots you cannot make money. That is a drastically limiting business model for someone who might face health adversity; this is basically all I was stating, the OP was asking what things limit turning a hobby into a business. Physical requirements are one of them. On top of this, you cannot turn it over to someone else if you go through a health crisis. If you make the pots, decorate the pots, fire the pots, etc. No one person can replace you. It is a delicate business plan that requires you front and center every single day.
I don't understand why anyone would make that comment, but I often find myself not understanding people. If I somehow made that comment in my post, I apologize I had no intentions of that meaning. If anything I admire people who can succeed as a full-time potter with no other support, it is impressive.

I turn 70 on the 15 of March. Pottery full time since 1976 for the most part  Yes a few jobs as an electrican and a plumber and a commercial diver but the most part its clay bringing in the income..I consider myself a full timer and am  was  simi retiring slowly (started at 64) until this coming year we are in. I married quite late  in life (mid 90s) and my wifes state insurance has helped a lot but that said its my income that has paid most of my way thu my life so far.
Pottery has been brutal on my hands /wrists. Yes back issue as well but knock on wood good last 20 years. Its kept me strong and worn me down at same time. (On the topic of your body being able to do the work) one needs to think about this a bit .
I read these discussions with very mixed feelings.  And coming from a place of knowing  whats needed and what the cost will be on oneself i have a different take on things. Mea points this out well. I agree with most of Josephs statements  although I never considered scaling up or even being in business-it was all an organic process not thought about much in the old days.It jusat happened from the love of making and firing pots.
I did have a slip cast friend who scalled up and I saw maganaging people was not for me in the 80s
Most I have learned are just not cut out for the production side of things . 
The next is sticking it and out figuring it out over time. This takes time and 10-20 years is not  what most are willing to give.
The body not holding up to the work is another big one. 
It's the individual that holds the key -do thay have what it takes to cut thru all the above and become successful ?
A few points for me are It has never been a hobby-as a collage kid coming out of school and working in clay I did not have the money or time to play with clay as a hobby so I have see the hobby part as a detriment  to those doing that thinking wow lets make some $$$ at this-this will not be full time in so many ways
The success is a judgment call on so many levels-as noted  a few extra $$ is all that needed or expected is fine for some and falls short for others.
What I made in the 70s-80s is not ok in the 90s-2000s-sure it paid the bills and house payments but I just got by for a long while. Now a show thats 6k for me is a disaster and not worth doing-back then it was on fire so thats a moving target as well. All this knowledge takes so much time to learn meanwhile your body is slowing getting ground down. That's a fact
If one wants to sell a few pots on instagam and feel like its full time I say go for it. But I know whats thats about -more the hobby deal as an upgrade
If one want to sell 6 figures a year I say go for it as I really know whats that about as well
My suggestion and its really been thru dumb luck is find a few good people to help you if you want to go big and long. In my case they found me  about 30 years ago and are just part timers and help me out in so may ways. They also have been with me that whole time (one is thrower 6 hours a week)  The other is a do it all studio assstant doing whats needed when needed and she has been terrific . Its been possiable to stretch this into a 50 year career body wise. You need to pay them well to keep them by the way and share in the sucesss as it comes-more pay
Its worked for me so know its possiable
Whats my biggest unknown in my future is wrist fusion ,so Neil pay attention now and give it real thought.
 
 
 

You can accept Apple Pay on Square.    Even some other payments, I think Cash App.    When someone asks we just enter and ppl tap their card or phone and it works.   So far, haven't had anything that didn't work with Square.   I like Square.  Seems price competitive and they charge a straight 2.6%.     No difference on reward or corporate cards.   Those reward cards are really high with some CC businesses.   My business is about 70% CC and 30% cash.   We enter both on square for tax record keeping.  oh yeah Square has 25 cents transaction fee ... on less than a certain amount I think it's 35 cents.

You can accept Apple Pay on Square.    Even some other payments, I think Cash App.    When someone asks we just enter and ppl tap their card or phone and it works.   So far, haven't had anything that didn't work with Square.   I like Square.  Seems price competitive and they charge a straight 2.6%.     No difference on reward or corporate cards.   Those reward cards are really high with some CC businesses.   My business is about 70% CC and 30% cash.   We enter both on square for tax record keeping.  oh yeah Square has 25 cents transaction fee ... on less than a certain amount I think it's 35 cents.

There is two kinds of Pin Holes innie and outie. the outies are usally sharp and nasty. What kind where these pin holes.
Pinholes are flaws in glazes not something one wants to see.

What an odd --and inadequate--comment from the potter. That's not even an explanation. I'm curious whether you had any comment yourself, or any further discussion with the potter? Unless the "holes" are deliberate, for some intentional stylistic, or philosophical/aesthetic statement (which should be able to be explained), I don't see why the potter would be OK with having what is essentially a defect be in circulation under their "well known" name.  

Crazing, crawling and pinholes all on one pot.  Beautiful. Glaze marries with the pot to fit in harmony. In the case of the rabbit do the pinholes add or detract?
Shino Tea Ceremony Bowl by Suzuki Tomio

 

I just saw a rabbit from a well known potter that had lots of pin marks  on it.   I mean lots.  This person told me all their pottery in that certain color had those "holes".     Not really "marks" .... but holes, you know the kind you get when your glaze is off.  Would anyone really want pin holes on purpose?