LeeU

i am one of the folks happy to be  once firing.   i have not had any problems that could not be attributed to my own errors.   very few over many years,  maybe once a year one piece .   i am absolutely NOT adjusting any firing.   i have an L&L programmable kiln that i only fire to the standard cone 6 slow glaze.  i do not know more than the manufacturer so i stick to simple.  it works.   i have one  wonderful white clay, highwater little loafers that works on the wheel and as my favorite, slab serving pieces.    
my own errors have been twice i did not fully dry a piece that had an overlap.   the design was new and i was just too impatient.  so one thing blew up.  it did hit a few other pieces but everything else survived.
i never wedge, clay straight out of the bag is much more compacted than anything these old hands could wedge.   to make a slab, i smash the slice of clay on the floor stretching it and compressing it at the same time.   no bubbles and i never make anything as thick as the 1/4 inch beginners are told is necessary.   why?
i have refired pieces for changing  a color or adding a second color detail and to adjust some pieces that did not get a deep enough sprayed layer.   in any load there might be newly made greenware,   totally dry.   a piece that is glazed and has gone to cone 6 with insufficient color,  or a glazed piece whose test on a smaller piece made it seem good color that i recovered in something else.
have used many different glazes without problems.   maybe being self taught has freed my head of the restrictions some people think are necessary and i have never considered myself an ARTIST so i don't look for DIFFERENT.
try it, you might like it.

I always find the discussions of success interesting. Success is such a hard word to pin down, what some people consider success to others might be laughable.
A potter making 50K a year in profits(not revenue) might be wildly successful to themselves, but someone else might consider that awful with the amount of manual labor it took for a person to do that in most cases. Making pots as an individual is really hard work no matter what techniques you use.
Success is really up to the individual, if you are happy making 10K a year in profits and are securing your lively hood through another manner, congrats you are happy and successful!
Pottery as a business is probably one of the most challenging forms of art type business you can take on. The equipment is large, the materials are heavy, the ingredients are a hazard and the time and manual labor that goes into each piece is usually under valued.  If you sell in person, you have to haul tons of stuff to a fair or show. If you sell online, you have to package and ship materials that are fragile and cannot be easily replaced. Neither of those things are optimal. It really is one of the most challenging sole owner businesses out there. Which probably explains why there are not a lot of individual million dollar potters, but plenty rich in livelihood, joy and a good bit of money.
I had a fundamental problem with pottery and turning it into a business, it doesn't scale very well. At some point you are going to cap out on the amount of shows you can do, pots you can make, and boxes you can pack. If you want to push into 6 figures you have to be really smart with what you do and be savvy in time management. It isn't easy to do and as others have shown it definitely is possible to do; but other types of businesses can scale so much easier with a single person and modern machinery.
I really like making pots and I like selling them too. Knowing someone is drinking out of my cups year after year experiencing joy is a nice feeling. It is one of the best reasons to be a potter. Not many forms of art are used daily in such an important thing as nourishment of our bodies.  I still think being rich in joy is way better than being rich in money. Unfortunately you need both!
I think I agree with GEP on this subject of instagram. Those people with millions of followers are wildly successful at getting likes and follows, but really they are earning way more money for instagram than themselves. That being said I know that instagram can add to your sales and get visibility to your shop, but I think the potters who utilize it the best are not the ones who have the quarterly flash sales, it is the potters who have a constant online shop available for the impulse buys. When someone is scrolling through their feed and the algorithm places one of your pots on their feed, they click through, click to your website and convert. That conversion can be a newsletter signup, clicking your show dates, or buying a pot from your shop. If you don't have any thing like this available and you are on instagram, then you need to make an adjustment.

Crazing, crawling and pinholes all on one pot.  Beautiful. Glaze marries with the pot to fit in harmony. In the case of the rabbit do the pinholes add or detract?
Shino Tea Ceremony Bowl by Suzuki Tomio

 

I hate wedging, but this makes it tolerable. Fresh snowfall last night.

I use both, pretty much based on the mood of the moment, generally with smaller poundage of clay. Anything hefty and I use "cut and slam", which I really like and it seems to save some wear & tear on my wrists. 

What an odd --and inadequate--comment from the potter. That's not even an explanation. I'm curious whether you had any comment yourself, or any further discussion with the potter? Unless the "holes" are deliberate, for some intentional stylistic, or philosophical/aesthetic statement (which should be able to be explained), I don't see why the potter would be OK with having what is essentially a defect be in circulation under their "well known" name.  

What an odd --and inadequate--comment from the potter. That's not even an explanation. I'm curious whether you had any comment yourself, or any further discussion with the potter? Unless the "holes" are deliberate, for some intentional stylistic, or philosophical/aesthetic statement (which should be able to be explained), I don't see why the potter would be OK with having what is essentially a defect be in circulation under their "well known" name.  

Totally agree. The platforms are all floating the idea of charging us a monthly fee. If it happens, we shouldn’t be surprised. 

I would also like to point out that the OP was originally concerned with folks who are transitioning from a hobby to a business. In terms of starting a business today and not anytime more than 5 years ago, many hobbyists may already have a social media presence. Some communication skills will already be in place, as opposed to those of us who grew up with no wifi and had to learn them.
 

These are the most “successful Instagram users.” Not to be confused with “successful potters.” You can’t deposit instagram likes in the bank. What looks shiny and pretty on social media can be 100% a facade. 
I know successful potters from my real life, because doing lots of high-level shows allows you to meet the real deals. Some of them are great with social media, some are bad at it, and some of them don’t do social media at all. There is no correlation. 
My advice to anyone who wants to be a serious pro: don’t place any value on social media popularity. Do it for fun, if you want, but that’s all. 

I hate wedging, but this makes it tolerable. Fresh snowfall last night.

I hate wedging, but this makes it tolerable. Fresh snowfall last night.

I hate wedging, but this makes it tolerable. Fresh snowfall last night.

Thank you LeeU! 

I used to make bird bath bases about the dimensions you mentioned-a little higher-and some were used as pedestals to put thick round glass tops on to make patio tables.  Never had any issues with the weight on top. Sounds like a fun project-hope you come back w/pics of the finished table. 

In regards specifically to MOP, my husband has a unicorn statue from his mom that she made back in the 70’s that’s all done in MOP and gold lustre. It shows no surface degradation after 45 years of sitting on a shelf. She’s the one who gave me the application tips when I was playing with it. (Thanks Marilyn!)
Archival discussions around pottery and ceramics are definitely different than in painting! Firing clay has prehistoric origins in function, and it’s the bulk of how ceramic is used as a material, so durability thresholds start at very different points. No one would dream of subjecting a painting to the abuse ceramic items take. We’re always talking about making things that hold up to freeze/thaw cycles,  acid attack, thermal shock and cutlery marking. Half the discussions on this forum are some version of “if I do ___ will that break something and if so, how?”
That said, there are a few categories of glazes that can and do react with oxygen if left unsealed, but they’re outliers and there’s all kinds of warnings and caveats about their suitable uses. Not everything we make is utilitarian after all, so there’s some room for these things. Think raku fired wares involving copper, and some glazes that are over saturated with some heavy metals, like Palladium having a lot of manganese. (Not magnesium. That’s different, but it’s easy to confuse.)  
Modern lustres are their own weird thing. They’re not technically a ceramic finish, and they’re not used exclusively on pots. They aren’t bonded with the glaze, or other substrates they're applied to. It’s just a really fine layer of metals sitting  on the surface of something shiny.  They’re made from metals that don’t oxidize, such as yellow or white gold, but they are subject to mechanical and some chemical degradation. That’s why you usually only see lustres on the rims of china pieces where they get less wear, and you’re not supposed to put grandma’s china in the dishwasher. They don’t recommend you put mother of pearl on food surfaces, because it can wear off. You can sand lustres off with elbow grease and some 220 grit wet/dry sandpaper. 
 

My customers stories run from great to sad.. Lets see I had a pedestal out front of booth with an small battery under it with an inverter powering a thrown fountain (bowl form full of beach glass) the water poured thru bamboo (home grown) and makes a sweet nosie of gurgling water as it recycled the same water over and over (pump is under glass and rocks in bowl) The student walks around and around the pedestal  looking carefully and finally asks me where the new water is coming from??My takeaway is stay a few more years in school leaning the basics
Lest see in the 80s at a sunny fair location I have a french butterdish as a demo and a sign saying its full of butter and water. My error was it was a black glaze in sun (got very hot) Woman grabs the lid and jecks it up and out and melted 1/2 pound of  butter flies all over her and the booth. My take aways is no more demo butter pots 
Student buys a great teapot 1st day of show. I ask if he knows how to take care of it and he blows me off saying he knows it all. Same student shows up next day wondering how to reapair said teapot after putting it directly on stove burner. I was not happy with this customer as it was a fantastic teapot and its not always about money. He did learn about taking care of teapots at the expoencse of a great pot dieing
Great things that do happen -people love the work and get excited or learn about new forms or learn about pottery and how to take care of it. The curious ones leatn about glazing and firing if I'm asked . I let the work sell itself and only answer questions if asked most of the time. 
I stoped selling forms that customers always ask WHATS THIS FOR?????-drives me nuts after the 2,000 time i hear it
selling to the public you learn that its scary out there ,as in how do they function at all at times
Lets see the bad - customers dog pees in booth on pots-customers dogs get in fight in booth. Customers are  drunk in booth and you need to escort them out before they fall into booth
People start yelling at each other at the show as they get in a tussle walking around show. Religious fanatics spewing crazy talk at art show-the list goes on-bar fight spills into show from bar.
Customers get aggressive and cross the line-once I had a stately fellow put 4 mugs on my sales table and then announce that you will sell them to me for  1/2 off (he was serious ) I stood up from my chair and took the mugs and put them back on mug shelf and told him his money was not good here and asked him to leave my booth. He got upset and left .
I have learned that men can be really really stubbornly stupid  and womens purses are like black holes in space and can seem bottomless -no telling what may be in there.
That someone can look thru 25 spoonrests for 2 hours before always buying the 1st one they liked
I have had customers who where great as well-way more good than bad -you reacall the really bad ones for longer times
I thought about a book on this subject but gave it up-50 years of shows you learn a lot about the public and really for me the takeway is I'm glad to be getting out of it.

What I've learned -  don't call a lazy susan a lazy susan to some Susans because Susan will get angry and make a huge scene in your booth.
@Pres, butter trick with teapots - some potters will put a very thin smear of a fat or clear silicone under the lip of the teapot which makes that area un-wettable therefore the spout won't drip. It's a cheat as silicone will discolour with the tannins from the tea and fats will wash off.

Mother of pearl is a lustre and fires to cone 016, but that’s from memory, so double check the label for specifics. Ibelieve the Amaco and Mayco ones are both pretty similar. 
Definitely use a vapour respirator and apply outdoors! The stuff is pretty stinky, and very not good for you. 
You want to apply it evenly and not too heavily, or it will go hazy instead of pretty. Use brushstrokes that go against each other in a hashtag motion, or in a swirling pattern. If you apply it all in the same direction, the iridescence doesn’t show as well, or only from one angle. 

Well, clearly a schedule can be worked out, but to me, the whole thing about inadequate wheels is just wrong, wrong, wrong. However the college tries to justify cheating the students like that, and regardless of whether students are paying or getting credit. It's just plain wrong. I can't even fathom walking into a wheel-throwing class and students not having full access to a wheel--whether I was the student or the teacher!  Maybe it's time to make some noise!

My opinion, grouping is the way to go*. Set those with some experience on "guided practice" tasks - things they can do mostly right without direct supervision - whilst you work with the beginners. My opinion, about twenty minutes is a good interval; set your beginners on guided practice and move to the next group. Repeat, repeat, where you are actively teaching most of the time, but not all the time, for there has to be some casual mixed in.
I've found twenty minutes is about right for everyone, kindergarten through graduate school. Change instructor led or assigned activity every twenty minutes or so.
Independant practice being the exception, of course, when the student is driving, they decide.
Some class sessions (assuming 120 minutes), you might have four groups you work with, leaving forty minutes for everyone activities.
You might have three, four, or more different activities happening at the same time.
Interesting that there's nineteen wheels and twenty-five students!
Several weeks into the semester, perhaps there's no one having to wait for a turn on a wheel?
Naturally, the beginners would require more guidance, still, nice to give each student some attention.
Mixed groups can be wonderful!
The experienced students can see where they once were, the beginners see where they might go...
Any road, I'd think the first session begins with clearly defined expectations of safety and clean-up, how work is evaluated and grades are assigned, and getting along stuff, like store your stuff responsibly, don't handle others' work, etc.
The more specific the objectives, the better, my opinion**.
However, as an Art class, there's un-measurables, which have to be ok.
Back to safety, I don't get how these things are assumed:
Always take your foot off and away from the pedal before standing up.
Shut the wheel off before stepping away, every time.
Never, ever, reach down past the wheel's edge into the pan whilst the wheel is moving, not ever.
Always set tools down such that the sharp bits aren't facing up.
How to (and how not to) work with sharp tools (including that metal rib!) such that they aren't driven into one's self or someone else.
Don't eat glaze.
Don't make dust inside.
etc.
*Planning the groupings, their activities, and the transitions can take time and effort.
It does take time and effort.
I coached swimming for over twenty years. My opinion, there should be something different happening in each lane, most of the time, where I'm working directly with a lane or two, most of the time, whilst the other lanes are doing "guided practice" - stuff they know how to do, mostly right, and don't need my direct supervision/teaching to do.
I needed detailed notes to plan: what each swimmer could repeat for each stroke and distance; what specific skills needed work for each swimmer, each stroke; what skills were fully mastered; what each swimmer liked best, et cetera.
Orchestration.
Coordination.
The kids see that they are getting individualized programming, that there's something for Them every session; sometimes working on their favorite thing, sometimes working on their weakest skill. They can make the interval in their lane, and if not, they're moved to a better fit.
One doesn't get more attention because they are gifted. One gets attention because they show up and participate. The more you show up, the more attention you get.
I see most programs have the coach/coaches standing around on the deck while all their swimmers are doing the same thing! They aren't teaching, they're not engaged. The sets are typically designed for the star, and the rest hang on the best they can. There are "bad" habits repeated, over and over without intervention.
How I do go on!
**Specific! Wedge two pounds of clay such that the bubbles are squeezed out and the clay is homogenous enough to easily center in less than a minute (where the clay starts with bubbles in it and a bit dry on one side), for example.
Throw a uniform (top edge is uniform height within a millimeter, wall is uniform thickness within a millimeter) cylinder 200mm tall, 75mm wide, where the walls are five mm thick, for example...

@Bam2015, @Babs Sorry - just saw this.  It didn't, because of dental implosions.  I spent nearly the entire class hopped up on painkillers (I can only take a 1/4th dose or they make me sick) and bouncing from one root canal to the next. All in all I think it was 2 or 3 months. But she says I can do the readings and videos at my leisure.  Likely won't happen until after the upcoming move which looks like it'll be sometime around May/June.  Or July.  Or whenever they find a house they like.  The plan is to keep gramma in the basement LOL!  Or equivalent.
Once I get a safe space set up for it I'll give it another go.

I think the full size (for suit or dress) dry cleaner bags are awesome-the best-the local dry cleaner here gives me 5 for a dollar. I use them as is or cut  some into large or small sheets. No marks-which I do get even when trying not to-from other plastic materials.  & just the right drying time. 

People may respond well to the "hand made", but the "crappy imperfections" aspect of the craftmanship is not likely what they are attracted to. The nature of successfully working with clay includes an awareness that it takes time, requires patience, can be expensive to do it right,  and, at a minimum, a good basic ceramics class is worth the investment of time and money. I too am impatient and I had to become willing and delibertive in learning about clay/glaze/equiptment, testing clay/glaze chemistry, becoming familar with my own kiln, and a bit about ethics and integrity when passing on my work to others, whether as gifts or for money. "Flaws" can be intentionally and creatively used in a visually stylistic manner, but they still must be structurally sound. 

About 250 round trip--quickly decided it wasn't for me! (not a commercial biz & I hated the packing/unpacking/hauling/setting up/tearing down/packing/hauling/unpacking of shows and ended up hating even the mundane routine of schlepping around to local (w/in 60 mi ) shops.