Cavy Fire Studios Posted October 11, 2014 Report Share Posted October 11, 2014 So, I got commissioned to make a cooking pot--an oldschool, high-grog terracotta sort of pot. I was wondering if any of you have made this sort of thing before, and could give me some advice? How thick should I make the walls? What should the foot look like, if any? He wants it to hold about as much as a medium-sized standard metal pot. Thanks so much! ♥ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Coyle Posted October 11, 2014 Report Share Posted October 11, 2014 I like to make my cook ware as symmetrical and thin as possible. I trim and round out any foot so that it has no sharp edges and sort of flows into the body of the pot. I throw and trim to about no more then 3/16 of an inch. I believe this helps cut down the differential expansion that a problem with cookware. A lot depends on the clay body. I have made pretty thick micatious clay vessels with not problem, but hese are low fire and not glazed. You will get lot's of different ideas on this. The right was is the way that works for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bciskepottery Posted October 11, 2014 Report Share Posted October 11, 2014 Many of your answers -- including what type of clay body -- will be determined by how the pot is used . . . on a burner, on an open flame, over a flame, etc. You might want a body with more than grog . . . more like kyanite or similar ingredients that have good thermal shock characteristics. Uniform thickness is an absolute, as is no sharp, 90 degree corners. Personally, I avoid cookware as I'm not that comfortable making those types of items. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbo_heff Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 If you are talking about a pot to go on the stove top, you are talking about a flameware clay NOT a terracotta. This is very specific type of clay and it is advisable to NOT make flame ware pots even with the correct clay ! Oven ware is easier to achieve safely : Are you taking about a stove top pot or bakeware? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldlady Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 are you talking about one of those chicken baker things? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cavy Fire Studios Posted October 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 He wants a pot, like a regular cooking pot. It's a high-grog redart with micah and the dudes at the clay store said their clay was okay to cook with, provided it was heated slowly. I do feel a little iffy about it...but, I'll do some more research. Terracotta has been used for cooking for centuries, so I don't really understand the problem--but that's why I asked, haha! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark C. Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 Let us know how this turns out with terracota.Stove top clay bodies are not terracata. My suggestion if you want to cook with it (teracota) heat it very slowly buried in dry animal dung which over a long period -it heats up then cools down. Stove top well thats why stoves have the liquid catch rings for when the pots cracks and leaks. I really understand the problem and would suggest another flameproof body. There has been many of these threads on this -do a search and you will see what has been covered which may help you in this endeavor. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 When you say cook with it do you mean on a stove top or in an oven? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbo_heff Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 DON'T DO IT ! There is a reason pots are made of metal ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bciskepottery Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 and the dudes at the clay store said their clay was okay to cook with, provided it was heated slowly. Ask them to show you the pots they made and use for cooking with; then accept their word. Here is one person who makes cookware; multi-year apprenticeship. And, he digs his own micaceous clay. http://micaceouscookware.com/pages/about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Coyle Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 I don't understand the flap over micaceous clay. You can buy commercial stuff from Laguna, or you can dig your own, as they do here in New Mexico. Either way you can make a cook pot that will withstand cooking in an over or even over an open fire. I have done it many times. The problem is, that it is low fire. If you try to high fire micaceous clay, it sinters, and the mica is absorbed into the clay. Being low fire it is absorbent, and liquid cooking products will be leached into the clay. This discolor's and stains it, and if you try to wash it in soap or detergent, that gets absorbed also. It makes a lovely conversation piece with a big, hand made, micaceous clay pot on the table, but then you have to deal with a cleanup that is difficult. I just use very hot water and then put the pot back in the oven at 350F. that will take care of any germs that might be stuck in the clay. That still leaves grease stains, so every once and a while I put it back into a bisque run in my kiln. That gets rid of the grease. I guess you could put it in the oven on a self cleaning cycle and get the same result. Around here there still is, lots of mutton stew cooked in clay pots that are just washed out with water after use. Far as I know nobody is dieing of food poisoning because of it. So if you intend to make low fire mica pots rather than high fire oven ware, you know the down side. In most cases I would go with timbo... metal pots are a lot easier to pick up if you drop them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bciskepottery Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 I don't think there is a flap over micaceous clay; in fact, if I were doing this commission, that is what I would use -- not heavily grogged terra cotta (regardless of the "dudes" endorsement). If you know what you are doing, making cookware is fine. Personally, unless I have made the form and was comfortable doing so, I would be inclined to pass the commission. Don't have enough insurance if things go bad on someone's stovetop or in their microwave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold Roberts Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 I have used micaceous clay that I got from Santa Fe Clay. I think that it worked out very well. I cook with it to this day. I made some terra sigillata with it to decorate. Check out my new gallery. Fire it very low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 From a liability standpoint I wouldn't make anything that goes on a stovetop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cavy Fire Studios Posted October 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 Harold, is micaceous clay the same as my redart with mica? Can you give me some tips on how you make your pots? Do you cook with them on the stove? Your pots look lowfire... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark C. Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 (I would be inclined to pass the commission. Don't have enough insurance if things go bad on someone's stovetop or in their microwave.) I carry a million on liability for my pottery -that said I would avoid this particular area. If it where for myself thats one thing but others thats another ball game. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Coyle Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 Never thought about liability... must be the culture here in New Mexico. I know twenty or more potters doing micaceous pots used in cooking, and liability never came up. If you are going to sell these things in New Jersey or L.A. , I guess that could be an issue. If so... ain't worth the trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark C. Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 Bob I sell my pots in 3 states and I own enough now to want to keep it all Doing shows like I have for so long and so many shows in so many places (used to be 5 states). A few decades ago some shows required this insurance so I have had it a very long time. So if some idiot swallows a spoon rest I'm covered. Maybe-usually thats the way insurance goes. Now its part of life like auto insurance.My policy is $350-$375 a year now. It may even be 2 million as that was the case for some years-I would have to check and I would rather get a tooth pulled than paw over insurace papers. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joy pots Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 I use raku clay bisque fire to cone 06 both in the oven & on the barbecue low temp. Works great. I haven't tried the micacrous clay in the same way as yet. I also clean the pots in hot water. Joy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cavy Fire Studios Posted October 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 One would have to be quite talented to swallow a spoon rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Coyle Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 Mark I get your point. Rather safe than sorry. I make and sell only ceramics for decorative use. I have made functional pots and dishes for my own use and for friends, which I give away. The local shows I have been in, don't require insurance. I can see where production at your level would require liability insurance, as any business. Maybe you also need to put a "choke hazard" warning on the bottom of your spoon rests... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bciskepottery Posted October 24, 2014 Report Share Posted October 24, 2014 http://www.amazon.com/Potters-Kitchen-Handmade-Home-cooked-Recipes/dp/1574983296/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1414162257&sr=1-3&keywords=sumi+von+dassow Probably all you'll need to know. And recipes, to boot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roberta12 Posted October 26, 2014 Report Share Posted October 26, 2014 I emailed Laguna and Aardvark to see which mid fire clays they would recommend for ovenware. This is what Laguna said... ...there are a lot of liability issues with oven ware and flame ware and most companies don't want to go there. We don't call any of our clays oven ware or flame ware for that reason. How you use it is up to you. I would suggest you test it extensively. The lower the coe the better clay works in an environment that heats and cools. He also talked about how important glaze fit is. Aardvark said, we do not have any ovenware bodies. So I am going to buy Sumi Van dassow's book and read up. Roberta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlCravens Posted October 27, 2014 Report Share Posted October 27, 2014 I know that flameware is a complicated issue, but I thought ovenware was pretty typical in pottery... casseroles and such are common. From Laguna's "A Guide To Clay Selection"... Ovenware may be made from most stoneware clays provided the ware is well designed and the user is aware of potential thermal shock and how to avoid it. Cone 5 stonewares tend to be less susceptible to thermal shock but all ovenware made of stoneware should be heated and cooled gradually. Recommended clays include Cone 10: WC-389, WC-376, #750, #910; Cone 5: WC-851, WC-877, #70, #60, #30. So while they may not have clay they "call ovenware," they certainly recommend some of their clays for ovenware in their documentation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roberta12 Posted October 27, 2014 Report Share Posted October 27, 2014 Carl, you are absolutely right! So what's a person to do?? I had not seen that on their website before I emailed them. Maybe I will just make some things and use them myself for awhile and see what happens. Roberta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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