Pyewackette Posted July 20, 2019 Report Share Posted July 20, 2019 I'm in the market for a sprayer for glaze AND paint. I've been struggling to paint the interior of my house (I'm old and decrepit and everything takes me FOR EVER) and was not considering a sprayer because why buy a compressor JUST TO PAINT ONE HOUSE. Except ... and I have no idea why it took so long for this to occur to me ... perhaps the aforementioned decrepitude ... I DO have another use for a compressor, eg - GLAZING. So I'm comfortable with the Harbor Freight spray gun (which btw is currently on sale with a coupon for $10) But not so comfortable picking out a compressor. Last I tried to learn up on compressors and glazing, I was told NEVER to get an oil lubed compressor because it will spit oil into the glaze and Ruin Things For You. Except the compressor I see mentioned on here from HF is an oil cooled compressor. (It is on sale for $115 with coupon btw but I'm not interested in that exact compressor since it gets generally poor ratings when used to spray paint). So I've flummoxed myself and have no idea what I should be looking for in a compressor for these purposes. So again with the coupons, I have 2 potential candidates for a compressor This one on sale with coupon for $125, it is oil free - 8 gallon 1.5 HP 150 PSI or This one on sale with coupon for $170, it is oil lubed and (obviously) way bigger than the other one @ 20 gallon 1.6 HP 135 PSI. I know NOTHING about either of these. I have evaluated them solely on their high ratings and high reported customer satisfaction on the HF website, and the fact that both exceed the capabilities of the 2 HP compressor I've seen others mention here. My guess is that the higher capacity is probably inconsequential for glazing, but not necessarily painting. I don't know the consequences of the difference in HP, or anything else. SCFM vs CFM? Why is one PSI better than another? At least I know what PSI stands for. I don't see an extra $45 as a problem but I do want to know the pros and cons of each of the first two mentioned (@125 and @170), or any reason why one or the other would be a bad idea for glazing. Or painting either, if anyone happens to know about that as well. With an oil lubed compressor, IS oil getting in the air lines a problem? I would think that would be a problem for painting normal paint stuff too - so is there a way to stop that? To make it worse, they also have an airless spray paint kit on sale with coupon for $170. It appears it'll work well for painting but no idea what it would do with glaze. It does take normal tips though. Also I don't quite get why its called airless - what's it using to shoot the paint out, magic? LOL! I have a 30x15 room to be painted with Kilz Original, the last room in the house I've not managed to completely remediate from the decade long tenancy of 3 chain smokers. Its been thoroughly scrubbed but painting with an oil based primer is not as easy as it was for me in the long ago days. IF I go for this, I also have a garage door that is a hideous shade of brown I would like to repaint and even, possibly, the whole exterior. But whatever of that does (or does NOT) get done, ultimately I want to end up with something that will still work in my pottery. Any help would be much appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liambesaw Posted July 20, 2019 Report Share Posted July 20, 2019 I just have a super cheap 5 gallon compressor, it's oil lubricated. You can install a particulate filter/water trap if you're worried about oil mixing in, but I've never run mine hard enough to get oil or water coming out. The compressor we have at work is a 200 gallon oilless compressor and it condenses so much water it's incredible. Our Auto-bleeding mechanism on it got unplugged one time and both tanks on it filled past halfway with water, it was amazing. We went to investigate and noticed the bleeder unplugged, someone plugged it back in and 100 gallons of hot, rusty, stanky "water" filled the basement 3 inches deep. Not fun. Anyway, that story has zero impact on this discussion, it's just something fun that happened. Long story short, I've never had oil come out of my nozzle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyK Posted July 20, 2019 Report Share Posted July 20, 2019 For your glazing, I would go with a pancake style diaphragm type oiless compressor. Just do a search on Amazon and you can find one for $109. The Harbor Freight $10 spray gun will work as a starter gun...as you gain experience, you may want to upgrade. The 150lbs of output pressure is inconsequential since you will only be spraying at between 10 and 30lbs since the gun is a high volume low pressure (HVLP) gun. Having been a contractor for 40 years, I have experience using HVLP, air, and airless sprayers, each having its advantages and disadvantages as well as specific applications. As for painting in the house, you'd be better off renting an airless sprayer. It does not work by magic … you are spraying just the paint at a very high pressure (in the range of 1200 to 2000lbs). You could use the HF spray gun to paint the room or the garage door, but not the whole house. You'd be spending more time putting paint in the gun than spraying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark C. Posted July 20, 2019 Report Share Posted July 20, 2019 I agree on the small oiless compressor for glaze spraying. Jonny K summed it up well in above post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Kielb Posted July 20, 2019 Report Share Posted July 20, 2019 1 hour ago, Rockhopper said: When selecting a compressor, be sure to look at the SCFM (Sustained Cubic Feet per Minute) rating of both the compressor and the tool(s) you plan to use with it. The only spraying I've done, other than from a can, has been with an airless sprayer, so have no idea what the CFM requirements are for HVLP or other air sprayers - but this is a very important detail with other types of air-powered tools. For example: If you're using a tool that requires 4 CFM at a certain pressure, and your compressor will only deliver 2.5 CFM at that pressure, your tool is not going to work properly - if at all. Excellent point but just so you are aware SCFM (Standard cubic feet per minute) is a pretty poor indicator in how it was developed and permitted to be published. It IS comparative however, so more is better for sure. Few small compressors can keep up with 4 CFM @ 40 psi continuous use because the rating actually reflects the output at 0 PSI which can not do any work. For home quality compressor stuff you generally need say an 18 SCFM rated compressor just to drive a 4CFM tool at 40 PSI continuously. The key is the S which stands for “standard “ which in essence allows for a misapplication of Boils law in my opinion. On a comparative basis SCFM helps. From a sizing standpoint it is confusing to most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liambesaw Posted July 20, 2019 Report Share Posted July 20, 2019 11 minutes ago, Bill Kielb said: Excellent point but just so you are aware SCFM (Standard cubic feet per minute) is a pretty poor indicator in how it was developed and permitted to be published. It IS comparative however, so more is better for sure. Few small compressors can keep up with 4 CFM @ 40 psi continuous use because the rating actually reflects the output at 0 PSI which can not do any work. For home quality compressor stuff you generally need say an 18 SCFM rated compressor just to drive a 4CFM tool at 40 PSI continuously. The key is the S which stands for “standard “ which in essence allows for a misapplication of Boils law in my opinion. On a comparative basis SCFM helps. From a sizing standpoint it is confusing to most. AvE has a whole video on how SCFM ratings mean almost nothing to the consumer based on how they're calculated. Great video. Don't watch if sensitive to adult language or skepticism: https://youtu.be/cfjSm_ieRkE The good news is, unless you have a tiny tank or are blasting glaze nonstop, those HVLP sprayers work great for glaze. I'm busting mine out this weekend for a fairly large vase I've been working on and have finally bisqued. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Kielb Posted July 20, 2019 Report Share Posted July 20, 2019 1 hour ago, liambesaw said: AvE has a whole video on how SCFM ratings mean almost nothing to the consumer based on how they're calculated. Great video. Don't watch if sensitive to adult language or skepticism: https://youtu.be/cfjSm_ieRkE The good news is, unless you have a tiny tank or are blasting glaze nonstop, those HVLP sprayers work great for glaze. I'm busting mine out this weekend for a fairly large vase I've been working on and have finally bisqued. Yeah, he is absolutely right when I used to custom paint cars as a teenager we could never find a compressor rating that actually kept up with the tools. When spraying any fine finish air pressure consistency is super important. So much so it was usual to have a pressure gauge right at the gun. When I started spraying glazes I was amazed at how imprecise and tolerant the equipment was. In the studio I opted for a cheap oil less 20 gallon vertical tank, included an auto drain, enclosed it for noise and added a 300 CFM equipment cooler. The compressor is hard piped to our two spray booths with regulators at each booth and keeps up pretty well with two sprayers. I think it’s rated at 8 SCFM but would never keep up with one continuous use air tool in reality. condensation in the summer demands a functional auto drain on the tank and work loop for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldlady Posted July 20, 2019 Report Share Posted July 20, 2019 pyewackette, an old lady's opinion, only opinion, no scientific knowledge, is that you need to have a compressor that is not so big that you cannot handle moving it around. and you might consider not buying one at all. spraying glaze will mean a whole new learning curve that might not be what you want to do. is there a specific advantage you see to spraying glaze? how do you do it now? is that so bad? as far as compressors go, i have killed one of the small kind, a two gallon, i think, hotdog shape, by spraying glaze continuously. that was the first one i had ever used and had no training or experience so i did not realize the heavy duty use i was putting it to. it was designed for short bursts, like one nail at a time. eventually, an 8 gallon one died but i think it was from old age, i used it for many years before replacing it a few years ago with a huge one from sears. it is only a 10 gallon tank and it is too heavy for me to move easily so it sits in front of the window next to the spraying space outside. i run the hose out the window when it is in use and just put the hose back when i am finished. i started spraying when i began making shapes that did not lend themselves to dipping. i really think you would be better off having someone else paint the room or house. it would be a one-time cost and so worth not having to do it yourself. it might cost even less than the more expensive compressor. as far as oil or no oil goes, how would oil get into the air tank in the first place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldlady Posted July 21, 2019 Report Share Posted July 21, 2019 OK, thanks for the excellent explanation, but i have a question about any possible problem if a tiny bit of oil gets into a glaze. won't it just burn out without having any effect on the pot? it seems like such an unlikely event and the amount so small that i am going to put my blinders back on and not worry about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyewackette Posted July 21, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2019 OK so let's see if I've got it. The airless sprayer is like a mechanical version of a roller. The HPLV type sprayer is like a mechanical version of a brush. If I want to do glazing the airless sprayer will not work well in that application, and likewise the HPLV sprayer will not work well for painting a large expanse of a wall. So I can't really make one type of sprayer do double duty. So looks like I'll go ahead and get the airless sprayer for painting and leave the glaze setup until AFTER I move. Why did I worry about oil in the airstream? Because I was TOLD to, a couple of decades ago, and never had the time to really seriously look into it to find out if that was realistic or not. As for letting someone else do the painting - the issue is not so much the money (though that is something I NEVER forget about) as it is time. I'm not getting anyone out here to do that before some time in October. I'm not sitting around waiting that long when I've somewhere else to be. Trying to do this by hand has been hard on me, plus I have birds that I have to go through conniptions to protect from fumes, and the fumes from Kilz Original are nothing to sneeze at. The longer it takes me to finish the work, the more effort and time I have to put into protecting them, and the less of both I have to get anything ELSE done. I am using the Kilz because I'm mitigating the effects of over a decade of a trio of hard core chain smokers in the house. There is very little odor at this point as I've scrubbed virtually every surface down with TSP, then bleach water, then a double rinse, and have primed and painted a large portion of the house except for the bathroom and kitchen, which are both VERY small areas, and the LR, which is huge at over 30x15. I just want to get it over with. IF finishing up the interior with a spray approach goes well, I MIGHT consider doing the exterior as well, but trust me, I've got PLENTY of other stuff I need to finish off before I can get out of here. I'd have to be getting a pretty expensive compressor or airless system to come close to the cost of paying someone else to do this. We had an estimate that was in excess of $3k just for the interior and no doors or trim. But like I said, it isn't the issue of money so much as it is the time. I want to be elsewhere than here. JohnnyK, can I manage to paint face framed cabinets and the doors (after I've stripped 60 years of paint of and sanded) with the airless, or would it be better to do that with an HPLV setup (which I will need eventually for glazing anyway)? As for why I want to spray glaze, well, just because. I don't really need to justify that. It's just something I want to do. Up to now, glazing has always just been a step I have to take to get to the next pot. Perhaps I can make it something more than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Kielb Posted July 21, 2019 Report Share Posted July 21, 2019 3 hours ago, oldlady said: OK, thanks for the excellent explanation, but i have a question about any possible problem if a tiny bit of oil gets into a glaze. won't it just burn out without having any effect on the pot? it seems like such an unlikely event and the amount so small that i am going to put my blinders back on and not worry about this. I would agree, painting auto and marine finishes oil and silicone are deadly. Water based glaze, not so much unless you are unlucky enough to have your spray gun spit some oil or silicone residuals on your bisque before you have sprayed it. Kind of like the big oops with getting wax on your bisque where you don’t want it. Rarely an issue though but I will say I suggest oil less when I can just because they have evolved so much and no causal use Potter I know changes their oil let alone cleans their air filters all that regularly. If you ever custom spray a car or boat after countless hours of preparation and see thousands of little dots appear everywhere in your first coat of paint it’s enough to reduce a painter temporarily to tears and put the fear of oil contamination high on the list of things never to repeat. On to solvent cleaning hoses, tank, gun, you name it and applying fisheye eliminator in hopes of saving the paint job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyewackette Posted July 21, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2019 3 hours ago, Bill Kielb said: I would agree, painting auto and marine finishes oil and silicone are deadly. Water based glaze, not so much unless you are unlucky enough to have your spray gun spit some oil or silicone residuals on your bisque before you have sprayed it. Kind of like the big oops with getting wax on your bisque where you don’t want it. Rarely an issue though but I will say I suggest oil less when I can just because they have evolved so much and no causal use Potter I know changes their oil let alone cleans their air filters all that regularly. If you ever custom spray a car or boat after countless hours of preparation and see thousands of little dots appear everywhere in your first coat of paint it’s enough to reduce a painter temporarily to tears and put the fear of oil contamination high on the list of things never to repeat. On to solvent cleaning hoses, tank, gun, you name it and applying fisheye eliminator in hopes of saving the paint job. Which (the fisheye thing) explains what happened to the finish of my current car, LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyK Posted July 21, 2019 Report Share Posted July 21, 2019 I'll send a personal message about the house painting since it's not appropriate for this board... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roberta12 Posted July 21, 2019 Report Share Posted July 21, 2019 I like spraying my glazes. It gives me a more even coverage. I have a Harbor Freight spray gun ($22 I believe) My first one lasted 5 years. I just got a new one this year. I also have a Harbor Freight compressor. I think it is a 20 gal. It uses oil. I haven't had problems with oil getting into my glazes, but I guess I didn't realize that could be an issue. Ignorance is bliss as they say!! Yes it is large, but I am able to have it in one room, close the doors and use the spray booth in the other room. So I don't have to move it. The people I know who have used the small 2-4 gallon compressors seem to wear them out quickly spraying glaze. As far as painting the house....my husband and I have both agreed to hire the local house painter next time!!! Roberta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyewackette Posted July 24, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2019 Thanks to everyone who participated. I'm learning all sorts of new stuff LOL! Such as why mineral spirits (as a cleaning agent) is better than turpentine, say, so as not to esplode. At least I have some idea of what questions to ask the actual equipment people. I now feel confident to spray paint my house, maybe even the exterior (we'll see) PLUS to finally get a glaze sprayer setup. I guess I'm not too disappointed to realize the two tasks require different equipment, as long as I can get both tasks done, I'm happy. Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liambesaw Posted July 25, 2019 Report Share Posted July 25, 2019 3 hours ago, Pyewackette said: Thanks to everyone who participated. I'm learning all sorts of new stuff LOL! Such as why mineral spirits (as a cleaning agent) is better than turpentine, say, so as not to esplode. At least I have some idea of what questions to ask the actual equipment people. I now feel confident to spray paint my house, maybe even the exterior (we'll see) PLUS to finally get a glaze sprayer setup. I guess I'm not too disappointed to realize the two tasks require different equipment, as long as I can get both tasks done, I'm happy. Thanks again. Turpentine smells better though. I could huff it all day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sorhain Posted July 25, 2019 Report Share Posted July 25, 2019 I have a Wagner Control Spray 250 Handheld HVLP Paint Sprayer from lowes : Sprayer Link This kind of gun is okay to use for glazing? I don't want to get one of those large compressors if I don't have to. I'm still pretty new to ceramics, and I hope to make my own studio out of my back yard shed. Also what about ventilation? Do I need a booth or is it acceptable to spray outside? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Kielb Posted July 25, 2019 Report Share Posted July 25, 2019 @sorhain Might work, definitely not a popular method. These sprayers are usually good for thin stains and mass application not requiring a bunch of precision but again you may get by with it. Glazes contain Silica and Clay which contains - Silica and feldspar which contains - silica and various oxides. Generally a spray booth is used to keep all the aerosolized components away from people who could breath them in. Spraying outside is probably ok as long as the overspray stays away from anyone breathing them in. That would be yourself and those down wind of the spraying activity. Discharging spray to the outside air relies on dilution of the contaminants to a minuscule level before it can be inhaled. Those nearby should still use an approved respirator to avoid inhaling the small particles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sorhain Posted July 25, 2019 Report Share Posted July 25, 2019 @Bill Kielb Thank you for the great info! I will have to give the sprayer a try and report back how it goes. I do have a respirator as well so I would be safe from over spray, but I will take care to make sure anyone else is out of range. I will look into other spray booth options for my shed too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slartimcbartfast Posted February 22, 2021 Report Share Posted February 22, 2021 @sorhain how did you get on with the sprayer? I have been considering getting one of those Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldlady Posted February 24, 2021 Report Share Posted February 24, 2021 sorhain has not been here since march 6, 2020. if you click on someone's name it you will see the last date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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