Suggestions for a monkey tail, how to attach?

[MissyLee5]

I'm working on a banana basket as a gift for my mom. I've done a handbuilt bowl, which I will attach a curved metal piece to after firing that comes up and over the bowl. A monkey will be sitting on that metal piece, affixed with JB weld, with a curved tail hanging down where the bananas will be hung from. 

 

My concern is attaching the tail and preventing any warping during firing since it will be long and skinny, hanging from the monkeys bottom. I'm thinking of making the tail, and carving out the same size diameter hole in the monkey where I wanted it attached, fire the tail laying flat (monkey and tail will only be underglazed), then placing the tail base inside the hole & glue it in place. Is this my best bet, or would it be alright fired while attached? Hes hollowed out in the center, and I've got 2 grooves on the underside of the monkeys base where it will attach to the metal piece, so if I attach the tail now, I think I'd have to fire it while sitting up on jewelry rack bars. But I'd be worried about the tail not maintaining the upward curve it needs to have so it works like a hook. 

 

Here is a photo, showing approximately how long and what shape the tail needs to be (where the needle tool meets). This was supposed to be a gift from 2 mothers day's ago, and I've got a few hours into the carved monkey- so I'd really like to get it right and not be ruined while firing. Any suggestions welcome!

[Kelly in AK]

I love your monkey! The tail needs to go from thick to thin and be half as long. Long and skinny would be nice, but you’re asking far too much from the clay, if I’m understanding correctly. Especially if it’s expected to carry a load of bananas. 

[Babs]

The clay will shrink so better make allowance when carving the grooves to attach to metal handle. Do you know the shrinkage rate of your clay body?

Can't advise on best way to fire, a lot hanging on that tail!!!!:-))

[MissyLee5]

@Kelly in AK Thanks! I can do thick to thin and a bit shorter. I'll have to do some measurements and testing to see how short i can get away with while still allowing the bananas to hang. 

 

@BabsI did account for shrinkage when designing it, this clay is 12%. I alotted for more though as more room is better than not enough. 

 

I was thinking of trying paper clay for the tail for added strength? Not sure if that is only applicable in the greenware stage. I may have to go the route of attaching the tail after firing.  Worst case scenario if it doesn't feel sturdy enough,  I could install a metal hook for the tail.

[Babs]

4 hours ago, MissyLee5 said:

@Kelly in AK  

@BabsI 

I was thinking of trying paper clay for the tail for added strength? Not sure if that is only applicable in the greenware stage. I may have to go the route of attaching the tail after firing.  Worst case scenario if it doesn't feel sturdy enough,  I could install a metal hook for the tail.

Paper clay would not be as strong imo as the paper burns out in the firing process, don't know if this makes it more brittle, someone will chime in 

https://community.ceramicartsdaily.org/topic/27135-working-with-paper-clay-questions/.

Edited May 21 by Babs
Add link

[MissyLee5]

@Babs Well that settles that. I had tried to search for "paper clay" in the forums but for some reason little to no results were returned

[Rae Reich]

I think you should fire them separately and attach as you described. That will ensure the curve stays as you arranged. Put it on a waster slab with some silica sand beneath it so it can slide a bit while shrinking in the firing.

It IS a cute monkey! Good luck!

[MissyLee5]

@Rae Reich Great suggestion, and thank you! I'll have to post a photo of the final design once complete. 

[Pres]

If I understand your design correctly, the monkey's tail is where the bananas hang? If that is the case or even if not, but concern comes to any weight being on the tail. If there is weight on the tail, I believe it would break as the long thin tail. As @Kelly in AKsays you need a thicker tail part where it attaches to the monkey, tapering to the curve. The attachment to the monkey body could be done by a metal pin that would allow the takil to swing. Firing separately is the only method that seems to make sense.

 

best,

Pres

[MissyLee5]

@Pres You are correct, the bananas will hang from the tail. I was looking into using some sort of metal support with the tail for strength. I read somewhere about using a metal rod as a "skeleton", then putting polymer clay around it and baking and painting it,  then affix it to the finished piece with epoxy. I've never used that type of clay, but it sounds like this method may provide a sturdier tail.

[Pres]

Other option here is to use a metal rod to build the tail around, and work the tail by rolling it with the rod inside, That should make the tail a little larger with a larger hole in the tail for the rod to be reinserted after glaze firing to be glued in with epoxy.

best,

Pres

[Min]

Perhaps the monkey tail could just be decorative and a separate metal piece used for a banana hook. Some forms just aren't suitable to be made from clay. 

[MissyLee5]

Thanks @Pres this is a good idea! 

[Pres]

On 5/22/2024 at 11:20 AM, Pres said:

Other option here is to use a metal rod to build the tail around, and work the tail by rolling it with the rod inside, That should make the tail a little larger with a larger hole in the tail for the rod to be reinserted after glaze firing to be glued in with epoxy.

best,

Pres

I forgot to mention that the tale should be bent after rolling with the rod inside, before drying.

best,

Pres

[MissyLee5]

@Pres Thank you for the tips. I'm going to go the metal rod route. I'll follow up with the outcome. Thanks to all for the helpful recommendations! 

[olaff40]

On 5/21/2024 at 4:52 AM, MissyLee5 said:

I'm working on a banana basket as a gift for my mom. I've done a handbuilt bowl, which I will attach a curved metal piece to after firing that comes up and over the bowl. A monkey will be sitting on that metal piece, affixed with JB weld, with a curved tail hanging down where the bananas will be hung from. 

 

My concern is attaching the tail and preventing any warping during firing since it will be long and skinny, hanging from the monkeys bottom. I'm thinking of making the tail, and carving out the same size diameter hole in the monkey where I wanted it attached, fire the tail laying flat (monkey and tail will only be underglazed), then placing the tail base inside the hole & glue it in place. Is this my best bet, or would it be alright fired while attached? Hes hollowed out in the center, and I've got 2 grooves on the underside of the monkeys base where it will attach to the metal piece, so if I attach the tail now, I think I'd have to fire it while sitting up on jewelry rack bars. But I'd be worried about the tail not maintaining the upward curve it needs to have so it works like a hook. 

 

Here is a photo, showing approximately how long and what shape the tail needs to be (where the needle tool meets). This was supposed to be a gift from 2 mothers day's ago, and I've got a few hours into the carved monkey- so I'd really like to get it right and not be ruined while firing. Any suggestions welcome!

Hey there,

Your plan to fire the tail separately and then attach it later sounds like a smart idea. That way, you can ensure the tail keeps its curved shape without any risk of warping during firing.
Carving a hole in the monkey to fit the tail and then using JB Weld to attach it seems like a good way to make sure it stays in place securely.
It's clear you've put a lot of effort into this gift, so taking the time to plan out the attachment is a great idea.

I'm sure your mom will appreciate the thoughtfulness behind it!

[MissyLee5]

@olaff40 Thanks so much! 😁