HenryBurlingame Posted April 25 Report Share Posted April 25 (edited) Hi all, First post here, hi :-). I have been interested in pottery for a long time, and now finally have a chance to set up a small studio and spend more time doing it. I have started planning the studio and the first thing I am trying to decide on is my kiln. I was wondering what you all would recommend for a kiln starting out: Gas or Electric. I live out in the countryside (middle-of-nowhere eastern WA) and could build a gas kiln next to the studio no problem (or buy one and put it there). Or I could run some more heavy duty electric to the studio building and buy an electric kiln. I am more interested in cone 10 clay and glazes and reduction firing, but if a gas kiln would be too much for a beginning potter to handle I would be willing to do some learning on an electric first. I imagine that in the future I will end up going gas, but in that case I guess I could just use the electric kiln for bisque firing so hopefully it wouldn't be a waste. Or maybe I would end up loving electric lol. So many things to think about, any help would be appreciated! Thanks! Edited April 25 by HenryBurlingame Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Min Posted April 26 Report Share Posted April 26 Hi Henry and welcome to the forum. Since you are in the countryside then zoning/regulations for a gas kiln might not be a problem but it's something I would look into, also if you have home insurance I would look into that aspect also. Do you have someone or somewhere that could walk you through firing with gas? HenryBurlingame 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HenryBurlingame Posted April 26 Author Report Share Posted April 26 (edited) Hi Madeleine, No issues building a gas kiln here, don't even need a permit. I could even build a wood fired kiln if I wanted and the only thing I couldn't do would be fire the wood kiln while there is a county-wide burn ban in effect (which sometimes happens during the summer months if there is no rain). I'm really out in the middle of nowhere, so no one around to walk me through anything unless I drive 4+ hours or so to the nearest city (if there is even anyone with a gas kiln there, I don't know of any...), but I am usually pretty good self-teaching myself things. Thanks! Edited April 26 by HenryBurlingame Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidh4976 Posted April 27 Report Share Posted April 27 If you want to do cone 10, you really want a gas kiln. You can do cone 10 in some electric kilns, but it's hard on the elements and not a great long term approach. You might take a look at a gas kiln conversion called TDI Downdraft Kiln Conversion. There is a book on Amazon on how to construct it and how to fire it. There is a friendly FB group that can handle questions. I have one and can do cone 10 in five hours. I run it using two 20 gallon propane tanks. The first link below is a website by the creator of the TDI. The book has good info that can be generally informative on burners and firing even if you decide to go with a different gas kiln. http://www.sebastianmarkblog.com/2018/07/gas-kiln-conversion-downdraft.html https://www.facebook.com/groups/4124895130900261/?ref=share&mibextid=NSMWBT https://www.amazon.com/Downdraft-Kiln-Conversion-Boris-Robinson/dp/B084DH88GH Min and HenryBurlingame 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HenryBurlingame Posted April 27 Author Report Share Posted April 27 Thanks David, I will check out the links. Also, I noticed that L&L JH kilns are rated for cone 12. Anyone know how well they hold up to cone 10 firings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Banks Posted April 27 Report Share Posted April 27 (edited) 16 hours ago, HenryBurlingame said: Hi Madeleine, No issues building a gas kiln here, don't even need a permit. I could even build a wood fired kiln if I wanted and the only thing I couldn't do would be fire the wood kiln while there is a county-wide burn ban in effect (which sometimes happens during the summer months if there is no rain). I'm really out in the middle of nowhere, so no one around to walk me through anything unless I drive 4+ hours or so to the nearest city (if there is even anyone with a gas kiln there, I don't know of any...), but I am usually pretty good self-teaching myself things. Thanks! A gas kiln comes with a bunch more disappointment and depending on how along you are it can be a bit demoralizing to find failure after failure. That being said it's totally worth it if you can get past the initial, sometimes lengthy learning and trouble-shooting process. Bisque is more even in an electric kiln but that not to say it can't be done well enough in a gas kiln. If you are comitted and have deep pockets and miles of patience with yourself and your materials jumping in the deep end would be fun as heck. One of the biggest 'buts' here, for me, is cost. A proper gas kiln project is a money pit, even if you don't make any mistakes. A small design will get you thinking though. You can start collecting the bits that will work to build a small kiln as well as someting more substantial. I know folks who have been planning and collecting for going on a decade. For them it's something similar to building a house or boat - very much a labour of love. If you are determined to high-fire in an elctric kiln consider shifting to cone 9. The energy required to go from 9 to 10 is substantial. Cone 8 can work too but the list of feasible material begins to narrow. Edited April 27 by C.Banks HenryBurlingame and Min 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Kielb Posted April 27 Report Share Posted April 27 On 4/25/2024 at 11:05 AM, HenryBurlingame said: So many things to think about, any help would be appreciated! I think all thats been mentioned above are great. I would add from an expectation standpoint If you are constructing a fuel fired kiln especially for a first time, there will likely be a decent learning and testing curve. Great fun and usually very educational for those that persevere and succeed. HenryBurlingame 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denice Posted April 27 Report Share Posted April 27 I would set up my studio for electric and gas. You can get some work done in the studio and fire it in your electric kiln, while you build the gas kiln. You wouldn't need to buy a high dollar computerized kiln a used smaller manual kiln would be suitable until the gas kiln was finished. It is handy to have a kiln that you can fill up quickly, I am in the city limits and fire electric I have a test kiln, a small kiln and a larger L&L. There is always someone wanting a gift or urn made in a hurry. The small kiln is my go to kiln on rush jobs, it isn't computerized like the others but fires great. You could also do bisque firings in it for the gas kiln. Denice HenryBurlingame 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HenryBurlingame Posted April 27 Author Report Share Posted April 27 That might be a good idea Denice. Get an electric in my studio and work with that while the gas kiln is set up in a year or two. Even buying a gas kiln has very long lead times. I would have to find some glazes I would be interested in that I could do at cone 6ish, maybe some temmoku oil spot... which I think could be done at cone 7 or 8 which I imagine is ok to do in a cone 10 electric kiln... Do you all think it would it be a better idea to buy or build my first gas kiln? Thanks again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted April 28 Report Share Posted April 28 As I mentioned in your other thread, cone 10 in a gas kiln is not the same as cone 10 in an electric kiln. It's about atmosphere, not temperature. There is no difference between cone 6 electric and cone 10 gas in terms of durability or quality of work. There are a small handful of glaze types that require a reduction atmosphere for them to work, and therefore need a gas kiln, but other than that you can do just as much in an electric kiln. Cone 6 has the benefit of more stability with colors, and a lot more options with commercially available glazes. If you really like shino and tenmoku glazes, you need cone 10 reduction. They will not work in an electric kiln. If you don't have experience in firing a gas kiln, it's going to be a long hard learning curve, and a lot more expensive to get started. If you want faster success and a simpler process, go electric. HenryBurlingame and Hulk 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark C. Posted April 28 Report Share Posted April 28 No permit and easy for gas then I suggest gas but I am a cone 10 gas potter myself so I am a bit bias. Learning with gas and cone 10 is a big learning curve but very doable. Babs and HenryBurlingame 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidh4976 Posted April 28 Report Share Posted April 28 In my opinion, gas is not much harder than electric. A nice thing about electric is that with today's digital controllers, you can start a firing and let the controller handle everything. With most gas kilns, you have to monitor the kiln yourself and do all the adjustments manually for the entire firing. If you must have cone 10 or reduction, you need gas...end of discussion. But, cone 6 oxidation in a digitally controlled electric kiln is more convenient. You can get different results in reduction than in oxidation, but they are not necessarily better one way or another. The difference is primarily aesthetics. HenryBurlingame and Hulk 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HenryBurlingame Posted April 28 Author Report Share Posted April 28 (edited) Thanks so much for your help everyone, I really appreciate it! After thinking long and hard about what you have said and after reading through all my glaze books I think I just need to go gas, I can’t help myself. My plan is to read through Olsen’s kiln book, decide on a design, order the firebrick and other necessary materials, and build the kiln while I get the rest of the studio ready (and it looks like I might have to learn how to weld too…). If there are any extra funds left over after is all is said and done I will probably get an electric too for bisque firing. But I see that even the smaller prebuilt gas kilns are around $20k now, wow, hope I can build my own for less than that…. Now I just have to decide on the size lol! Edited April 28 by HenryBurlingame Hulk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark C. Posted April 28 Report Share Posted April 28 (After thinking long and hard about what you have said and after reading through all my glaze books I think I just need to go gas, I can’t help myself.) Welcome to my world HenryBurlingame and Hulk 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Kielb Posted April 28 Report Share Posted April 28 On 4/25/2024 at 11:05 AM, HenryBurlingame said: I have been interested in pottery for a long time, and now finally have a chance to set up a small studio and spend more time doing it. An interesting thought if you have never done any sort of pottery maybe take a course or two if possible, to see what you may like. Learning to build a gas kiln and operate it reasonably proficient - maybe a year or two. Learning and becoming proficient in all aspects of pottery - maybe a lifetime. Hulk, HenryBurlingame and Magnolia Mud Research 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HenryBurlingame Posted Wednesday at 12:00 AM Author Report Share Posted Wednesday at 12:00 AM (edited) Well I got a quote for running more electric out to the studio for an electric kiln as well as a quote for a concrete pad, constructing a simple kiln shed, and having a large propane tank installed for the gas kiln... Starting to lean toward electric now holy cow Edited Wednesday at 12:00 AM by HenryBurlingame neilestrick 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterH Posted Wednesday at 06:39 AM Report Share Posted Wednesday at 06:39 AM (edited) 8 hours ago, HenryBurlingame said: Starting to lean toward electric now holy cow If you are leaning that way have you explored slow-cooling in an electric kiln? Which can have a dramatic effect on some glazes. PS Some eye candy. https://ceramicartsnetwork.org/daily/article/Super-Cool-Slow-Cooling-in-an-Electric-Kiln https://cone6pots.ning.com/forum/topics/slow-cooling https://ceramicartsnetwork.org/daily/article/Tips-for-Increasing-or-Decreasing-Crystallization-in-Glazes ... same glaze fired in a gas kiln: with the "natural" slow cooling of a gas kiln & with a "crash" cooling similar to that usually given by an electric kiln. https://digitalfire.com/schedule/c6dhsc https://digitalfire.com/picture/bestenazoh https://digitalfire.com/picture/3348 A discussion on iron reds in this thread http://ralpotterystudio.blogspot.com/2010/08/new-glaze-tests-710.html ... a fairly mixed bag, including Previous firings of this glaze at cone 6 or less without slow cooling produced dark browns. This is one that really requires slow cooling to get the red appearance, but proves you can get red reds at cone 6. Edited Wednesday at 08:07 AM by PeterH Hulk and HenryBurlingame 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HenryBurlingame Posted Wednesday at 02:17 PM Author Report Share Posted Wednesday at 02:17 PM Thanks Peter for the links! I actually have been thinking about exploring slow cooling as well as putting things in saggars to get reduction effects. I am sure I can figure out ways to get glazes I like in an electric kiln… just won’t be quite as straight forward as doing it in a gas kiln… PeterH and Hulk 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterH Posted Thursday at 12:39 PM Report Share Posted Thursday at 12:39 PM 22 hours ago, HenryBurlingame said: I actually have been thinking about exploring slow cooling as well as putting things in saggars to get reduction effects. I am sure I can figure out ways to get glazes I like in an electric kiln… just won’t be quite as straight forward as doing it in a gas kiln… It would be nice if you started a thread on the topic in say 3-12 months indicating your successes and failures in this area. PS A less well-known technique to achieve reduction. Which I think I've only seen mentioned in a 1932 paper on copper reds. HenryBurlingame 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Kielb Posted Thursday at 03:08 PM Report Share Posted Thursday at 03:08 PM On 5/1/2024 at 9:17 AM, HenryBurlingame said: ! I actually have been thinking about exploring slow cooling as well as putting things in saggars to get reduction effects. Reduction only affects a handful of metals. The reality, nice to explore, fun to learn, extremely wasteful, environmentally and from an energy standpoint. Exploring other methods may be the future. HenryBurlingame 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babs Posted Thursday at 09:49 PM Report Share Posted Thursday at 09:49 PM Search Joseph Fireborn on these forums , Gallery and elsewhere, he posted some great pots using an electric kiln as have many, many others. I suggest getting to know a potter who uses gas and spend time in their studio. John Britt has extensive material online showing and teaching the effects possible in an electric kiln at C6 Still missing my gas kiln here after many years though.... HenryBurlingame 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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