New to me Geil Kiln

[Mark C.]

Spent a huge part of summer getting ready and moving and now firing a new to me Geil 18 cubic foot downdraft kiln.

It started years ago when I found this kiln for my self and a potter fiend I know said he wanted it so I let him buy it and ship it up from LA. He fired it twice and passed away. I promised his widow to clean out his studio which I did a few years ago and this summer finally made moved the kiln (it weights about 2,700#s)

It require me knocking out some support collums and putting in two 20 foot LVL beams so I could open up my kiln area out under a huge metal roof area. Once the beams where in We moved the small 12 cubic updraft out of the way and I jackhammered out the column supports I poured in 1974. And made large cement pad -about two yards of concrete -I had a pump truck pump it into our space. I added some small wings to the main pour a few days later exposing in more rebar for the kilns to set back from one another more. I had to deconstruct a wall at kiln site in his kiln room and spent 3 days getting kiln out onto a specialized equipment trainer with a pallet jack .The trailer  jacks down flush with ground level to put kiln on and made a solid wood support structure in girl kiln (floor sides and arch support to move it the 15 miles. Here at home it landed on the street for 5 days and  derusted then painted it where it needed it and had a local yard move it with a forklift to my pad where I again used a pallet jack to fine tune it and the other kiln. Of courseI had to move my gas lines before the concrete went in and got two 1 inch line stubbed up from my 2 inch lines underground that run through my kiln area. I had to change out 15 orfices in the Geil (drilled them out with super fine drill buts) as the kiln was propane and now its low pressure natural gas. I tried to fire all three kilns at one a few weeks ago and did not have enough gas to do that but I did fire the Geil and my car kiln two days ago with no issues. I was abal to put both my peter Puggers on this slab as well and now that can move around with ease. The whole area is way more efficient now and I did I had done this 10 years ago. The Geil sips gas but now i must order 14  new 14x28 advancers as the old shelves it came with are just to thick and heavy and warped for my old body. Those shelves will cost as much as I paid for the kiln and will take 3 months to ship here from Germany (thru bailey). I am unloading my second glaze fire today from the Geil and I have bisqued in it twice as well. The auto pilot system has a few bugs but I'm working thru it.

[Babs]

2 hours ago, Mark C. said:

Spent a huge part of summer getting ready and moving and now firing a new to me Geil 18 cubic foot downdraft kiln.

It started years ago when I found this kiln for my self and a potter fiend I know said he wanted it so I let him buy it and ship it up from LA. He fired it twice and passed away. I promised his widow to clean out his studio which I did a few years ago and this summer finally made moved the kiln (it weights about 2,700#s)

It require me knocking out some support collums and putting in two 20 foot LVL beams so I could open up my kiln area out under a huge metal roof area. Once the beams where in We moved the small 12 cubic updraft out of the way and I jackhammered out the column supports I poured in 1974. And made large cement pad -about two yards of concrete -I had a pump truck pump it into our space. I added some small wings to the main pour a few days later exposing in more rebar for the kilns to set back from one another more. I had to deconstruct a wall at kiln site in his kiln room and spent 3 days getting kiln out onto a specialized equipment trainer with a pallet jack .The trailer  jacks down flush with ground level to put kiln on and made a solid wood support structure in girl kiln (floor sides and arch support to move it the 15 miles. Here at home it landed on the street for 5 days and  derusted then painted it where it needed it and had a local yard move it with a forklift to my pad where I again used a pallet jack to fine tune it and the other kiln. Of courseI had to move my gas lines before the concrete went in and got two 1 inch line stubbed up from my 2 inch lines underground that run through my kiln area. I had to change out 15 orfices in the Geil (drilled them out with super fine drill buts) as the kiln was propane and now its low pressure natural gas. I tried to fire all three kilns at one a few weeks ago and did not have enough gas to do that but I did fire the Geil and my car kiln two days ago with no issues. I was abal to put both my peter Puggers on this slab as well and now that can move around with ease. The whole area is way more efficient now and I did I had done this 10 years ago. The Geil sips gas but now i must order 14  new 14x28 advancers as the old shelves it came with are just to thick and heavy and warped for my old body. Those shelves will cost as much as I paid for the kiln and will take 3 months to ship here from Germany (thru bailey). I am unloading my second glaze fire today from the Geil and I have bisqued in it twice as well. The auto pilot system has a few bugs but I'm working thru it.

Glad you told us you were downsizing and slowing down!!! 

Inspirational!

[Kelly in AK]

What a treat to see and hear how this unfolded. Thank you for sharing it. It takes time to do things right, but always less than doing them over. Beautiful kiln! 

[Mark C.]

really i'm making less but slowing down is a gradual deal

[Babs]

6 hours ago, Mark C. said:

really i'm making less but slowing down is a gradual deal

Absolutely  and I think that tiger's dont change stripes midstream, keeps the brain and body sorted, and you dont know the word "bored" either.

Keep creating.

[Kris Busch]

I've been researching thermal lite selves from Bailey and found your comments. I was wondering if you find you have to put kiln wash on them? Also do glaze drips adhere to pots in future firings once removed from the shelves?  Thanks for any advice.

Kris Busch, Bloomington In

Functionalceramics.com

[Mark C.]

The glaze will not adhere to Baileys or advancer shelves (kiln shelve.com) You just knock off any glaze drips and it does not affect the next pots fired

You should get a total quote from both suppliers which includes trucking /shipping before buying

in terms of washing I am an all porcelain studio and the pots  are fired to soft cone 11  and will pluck on unwashed shelves -meaning the foot will stick in small amounts sometimes. Leaving sharp bottoms .

That means for me I use a Quaility home made wash on the shelves. 50% alumina hydtrate 25% EPK and 25% calcined EPK. I thin this to cream constentancy and roll it on with a paint roller and sun dry it on sun heated shelves .

I ahve about 65 advancers and a few Bailey German shelves-they all act all the same. I have fired them a zillion times. I have broken some as well . You need to keep them dry not stacked on concrete (I use wood under them on concrete) Never blown one up . After washing them I slow bisque them with pots on them in a regular bisque fire.

Edited September 27, 2023 by Mark C.

[Kris Busch]

Thanks so much for the reply Mark, and the tips. I ordered some with another potter so the shipping wasn't too bad. I'm hopeful the Bailey shelves will be the last shelves I'll need and look forward to using shelves that won't warp. I've been using the nitrite bonded ones for about 10 years and although they were great for a long time, they are now warped even though I flipped them every firing and have glaze drips that have seeped into the shelves and cause plucking even on stoneware. 

Edited September 28, 2023 by Kris Busch

[Mark C.]

You will be amazed on the shelves as thay will never warp or hold glaze. You will never have to buy another again.Just do not try to quick cool them as they do not like thermal shock as well.

[fergusonjeff]

Mark - Question on the quick cooling.  I have a new (to me) 14 cu ft olympic gas kiln.  I have only fired it once before and have it loaded to fire this weekend.  I have two new bailey shelves in the stack to try them out (I really like the advancers in my electric kiln).  The kiln cools fast on its own (can open the next day).  I am not opening anything to purposely crash cool but it is a fiber-lined softbrick kiln that just cools quickly on its own.  Would this pose any danger to the shelves?  I have them in the middle of the stack right now but plan to keep adding more over time.

Thanks.

[Mark C.]

I think they will be fine. Just keep them away from damper openings unless its closed the whole cool down time. My friend used to pull the damber to quik cool and the Botton advancer cracked a few time before they caught on. They are sensitive to small nurds or sharp points (meaning I use a bunch of washed broken shelve pieces to gain height on top of my posts) these are 1/2 -3/4  old school sheve pieces and 1/4 broken advancers pieces. I learned the hard way that they need to be flat and not have any high points. I cracked a few corners off on tall loads in car kiln that holds say 35 shelves spread into 3 stacks of 12x24s.

same with posts keep them flat on top.

By the way I am this winter going to sell some unused ot lightly used unwashed 12x24 advancers -I have 24 of them  I have never iused after buying .I bought from 2 sellers and they are nearly new as they bought them and fired a few times and sold out.I am thinking of 2/3 new price. I may be driving to the spring eclipse as my wife has relatives that moved to your state a few years ago. Just a thought. I really do not want to pack and ship them unless its in small batches .

[Kris Busch]

Mark, Thanks for the advice on no quick cooling. I fire an Olsen kit 24 cf updraft and cool it pretty slow anyway.  Do you recommend using wash on the stilts?  Is it important to use smaller profile stilts instead of bricks? I mostly do this anyway to have more room for pots. Here's a picture of a typical firing. 

If you end up coming to the midwest for the eclipse next spring and still have the shelves, I might be interested in them as well as others in my clay guild, localclay.org. 

My husband is an astrophotographer. We plan to photograph the eclipse next April at our place in southern IN but if the weather is looking better somewhere else we may travel for better conditions and end up closer to MO. We are also heading to Albuquerque in a couple of weeks to photograph the annular eclipse, exciting times for solar activity!  

[fergusonjeff]

Mark,

  thanks for the info.  Just peeked into the kiln this morning and the shelves looked fine.  Still too hot to unload.  This is my second time firing a gas kiln (used to wood and electric) and based on the quick peek at the copper red samples I am still not getting enough reduction.  Hopefully I can get that worked out. 

I am definitely interested in the shelves.  I would like to get about a dozen at least.  If the price is right then shipping in small batches or meeting up somewhere would be great.

Jeff

Edited October 2, 2023 by fergusonjeff

[Mark C.]

23 hours ago, Kris Busch said:

Mark, Thanks for the advice on no quick cooling. I fire an Olsen kit 24 cf updraft and cool it pretty slow anyway.  Do you recommend using wash on the stilts?  Is it important to use smaller profile stilts instead of bricks? I mostly do this anyway to have more room for pots. Here's a picture of a typical firing. 

If you end up coming to the midwest for the eclipse next spring and still have the shelves, I might be interested in them as well as others in my clay guild, localclay.org. 

My husband is an astrophotographer. We plan to photograph the eclipse next April at our place in southern IN but if the weather is looking better somewhere else we may travel for better conditions and end up closer to MO. We are also heading to Albuquerque in a couple of weeks to photograph the annular eclipse, exciting times for solar activity!  

This applies your your stack as well. Seeing as you have 15 of them in that load. Those spacer chunks if washed will not stick.As far as bricks for stilts no worries-I would wash the ends. Its not smaller profile its about mullite and  post fuzing to the shelve. Wash will sholve that on all posts/bricks tops and all those small spacers you have in load.

(Yes the tops of pots shold be washed and the spacer chucks as well. If unwashed it will leave pieces fuzed over time to the bottom of the shelves and make for uneven stacking and can crack a corner. Also posts and spacers will stick and be harder to remove especally at cone 10 temps.)

I'll Pm you if we make that trip and still have the shelves. This am I'm ordering 17 14x28 Bailey advancers for delevery in 3 + months from Germany

Edited October 2, 2023 by Mark C.

[neilestrick]

6 hours ago, fergusonjeff said:

based on the quick peek at the copper red samples I am still not getting enough reduction

What do they look like? If they're green, then that's not enough reduction. If they're white, then either the glaze isn't on thick enough, or the red is burning out. This can happen to pieces put along the edges of the shelves where the direct flame of the burners hit them, or if the kiln is running too hot.

My process for reduction firing is to put the kiln into reduction and stall out the climb at cone 012. You may find it difficult to completely stall it, but at least make it so it climbs very, very slowly. Keep it in reduction for 45 minutes, then back off the reduction, let it climb, and keep it in a light reduction or neutral for the rest of the way up. You'll have a fair amount of back pressure out one spy hole, and the other spy hole should have at least a little puff of back pressure. That back pressure means you should be getting fairly even atmosphere throughout the kiln.

[Mark C.]

Well Bailey had the stock mixed up and they had in stock 20 of the  14x28 Thermo Lite shelves at $331 each so I ordered them all-Trucking to my remote part of the planet for a 275# box on a pallet was $590. Now my back is feeling better not using old shelve tecnology which is heavy ,and I had them shipped to my friends lumber yard a few miles away for cost reduction in shipping -still $590 via Fedx ground economy .

They will show up second week in November when I return from diving Indonesia .

I'll need to wash them lightly and bisque fire them with a bisque load..work almost never stops

Funny the shelves cost more than the kiln, never used to be that way.

[fergusonjeff]

Neil -   the copper reds were going green where thick.  So I think I need both heavier reduction and thicker application.  I ended up going past cone 11 throughout the firing.  Would the higher temp cause issues for the reds?

Mark - Let me know when you are ready to pass on your old 12x24 advancers.  Definitely in the market when you are ready. 

 

[neilestrick]

8 hours ago, fergusonjeff said:

Neil -   the copper reds were going green where thick.  So I think I need both heavier reduction and thicker application.  I ended up going past cone 11 throughout the firing.  Would the higher temp cause issues for the reds?

If they're green it's a reduction issue. Your glaze may be good at cone 11, just depends on the glaze. Since it still had color then the temp and application is probably fine.

[fergusonjeff]

Thanks for the advice on the copper reds.  Fired again yesterday and went with heavier reduction.  Still too hot to open early this morning, but a quick peek showed some nice red test tiles.  More reduction and thicker glaze seemed to help.

 

[Mark C.]

Before leaving on a dive trip I ordered 18  14x 28 Bailey german made advancer shelves. They were a bit cheaper only $331 each and shipping was in the mid 500$s. Advancers where considerable  higher in price and shipping. They show up 2nd week of November . It will be tough to solar dry the wash that time of year so I may have to heat them in the shop to wash them and get them dry.

[Kris Busch]

Hi Mark, Hope you had a wonderful trip! Thanks for all the advice.  I got my shelves and I'm excited to use them soon. Since I'm using stoneware I think I will skip washing them but will definitely grind and rewash all my posts and shelf chunks before I fire the new shelves. The one's in the picture of my stack are the Chinese nitride bonded which held up for a long time but did warp over time and glaze runs soaked into the shelf and cause plucking if I don't wax the pots with alumina in the wax.  I'm hopeful these shelves will hold up as long as I hold up making pots