AAARGH SHIMPO you changed EVERYTHING!

[Pyewackette]

They changed all their model numbers and apparently there is at least one totally new wheel:

 The former Whisper is now the RK-3E

Pretty sure I'm at least 2 models behind, now its the RK-3D . The last model I remember is the RK-2.  I guess its upgraded? Or at least not the same as it was most recently? 

Whisper-T, not sure where this is coming from at all.  It appears to be an uglier, less capable version of the former Whisper-now-RK-3E.  It has two tiny tabs at the sides instead of an actual workspace and a smaller motor (300W vs 400W and why are we talking W instead of HP?)

Former VL-Lite, now the RK-55.

Former Aspire, now the RK-5T/RK-5TF, depending on whether it comes with a foot pedal or a hand lever thingy.  Oh and it weighs 26 lbs and they claim it will center 22 lbs.  Not sure if that's a new claim but its a ridiculous claim regardless.  You're not going to center nearly as much as the wheel weighs.  Can you say "see the wheel slide off the table"?  LOL! Well actually you'd probably just end up with a lap full of clay.  OK OK, most likely just a stopped wheel head.

As far as I can tell the wheels formerly known as Whisper and VL-Lite haven't changed (not sure about the legacy format of the RK-2/10/3D or the former Aspire).  And the "Whisper-T" doesn't seem to have a reason for existing.  Also why is it now the ONLY model that doesn't have a number?  I would guess they're trying to associate it with the more capable as far as I can tell former Whisper-now-RK-3E?

I don't know quite why I find this so very off-putting but I do. Now we have a bunch of models with designations that are too close for comfort.  It was easy to differentiate between the Whisper, the RK-10 (could have called it Shimpo Classic but whatever), the VL Lite and the Aspire.  Numbers are not better than names.  Except for the odd man out, the "Whisper T" which I am thinking they are trying to associate with the Whisper that doesn't exist in name any more.  Pretty sure that is purposefully intended to confuse. And I can't tell for sure what else might have changed. It just popped up out of the blue.

The Whisper/RK-3E still apparently centers 100 lbs (allegedly), but the "Whisper T" doesn't indicate ANYWHERE what its centering capacity with the smaller motor is.  I checked their promo literature AND the manual itself, they don't say.  I did find an Australian site that says it centers 88 lbs. I sort of doubt it is that close in capabilities to the Former Whisper. But you sure can't tell from their description, they don't even use the same terms or categories (plus total failure to mention centering capacity.) They do both seem to be direct drive.

"Turn and face the strange"

Edited April 23, 2022 by Pyewackette

[neilestrick]

I think you were on the Europe site.  The US site still has all the names you're used to. There's a little flag icon in the top right corner to toggle between the sites.

Watts don't matter, HP doesn't matter. Torque is what matters, however nobody lists actual torque numbers. The closest we get to torque numbers is centering capacity. Can a tabletop wheel center 22 pounds? Probably not very well. Can a regular wheel center 200 pounds? Probably not very well. But they can all center 25% of that just fine. Brent switched to listing what the clay can handle 'continuously' rather than centering capacity, so that further complicates things. I think they only want you to compare their wheels to their other wheels, not to other brands. But who cares if a wheel can spin 225 pounds? Nobody does that. It's all about torque. I wish there was a standardized, real number system for rating wheels. Even centering capacity is subjective.

[Pyewackette]

Well that's a relief!  I don't know why that bugged me so much but it REALLY did.  Re "centering" I always thought that was a measure of the wheel capacity under its (presumably) greatest load, when you are likely applying the most force to the (semi-)constant load of the clay itself.

Its my understanding that the WHISPER DAGGUMIT THAT'S THE NAME can really only (reliably) handle about 50 to 60 lbs of clay but I figured that's not very important because who throws that much at once anyway??? Like 3 potters in the entire country maybe and they don't "throw" as far as I can tell, they throw the bottom and then coil-build and smooth until its as big as they want it.  Or they throw in sections.  As far as I know, which may not be all that far.

I mean I aspire to throwing Big Pots but I have trouble imagining how Big a 50 lb Pot would be.

But yeah there are other issues about how a wheel handles a load besides centering.  Like, how responsive is the pedal, and whether it lugs under certain conditions, and other stuff I'm not really very well versed in.  I need to go re-read the threads about wheel comparisons, now that I might remember more of it LOL!

Edited April 23, 2022 by Pyewackette

[neilestrick]

The Whisper wheels use a pancake motor, which is very low on torque, but if you don't make things over 10 pounds it'll work just fine. Personally, I can't stand how quiet they are. I find that I set the speed of my wheel as much by sound as by sight.

[Pyewackette]

4 minutes ago, neilestrick said:

The Whisper wheels use a pancake motor, which is very low on torque, but if you don't make things over 10 pounds it'll work just fine. Personally, I can't stand how quiet they are. I find that I set the speed of my wheel as much by sound as by sight.

I LOVE how quiet they are.  I can hear myself think!

Are you sure you're not thinking of the VL Lite?  That's the one I have at home.  I've thrown more than 10 lbs (in the past, not back to that yet) on the Whisper and it was fine.  The VL Lite will only handle 12 or 15 lbs ...

What's a "pancake motor"?

[Mark C.]

I did a demo workshop on about 8 of the wispers-they are quiet and thats all they are -they can be slowed down easy with a medium amount of clay and the splash pans are cheesy and will break over time. The cords are to light duty as well. Thats my take-oh ya they do not have good fast service/parts like Brands made in this country 

a pancake motor is like Naan bread only made on a charcoal fire a low heat-when done its a low torque flavor that is really quiet and small

Edited April 23, 2022 by Mark C.

[Pyewackette]

1 hour ago, Mark C. said:

a pancake motor is like Naan bread only made on a charcoal fire a low heat-when done its a low torque flavor that is really quiet and small

LOL!

But really ...

[Hulk]

I prefer waffles, then egg soaked fried in butter bread, aka "french toast" - but pancakes are solid third for me in traditional just in time breakfast stovetop fare - without gettin' into special, e.g. croissant, raised biscuit, xmas morning bread...

In motor talk, "pancake" typically refers to a flat/horizontal space saving design, like what VW put in the fastback type cars, and the later model buses. It's flat.

The Whisper doesn't use a belt and pulley - it's direct drive, and the motor is brushless. It also looks kinda flat.
Looks like replacements are somewhat expensive.
 

Edited April 24, 2022 by Hulk
size

[Bill Kielb]

1 hour ago, Hulk said:

The Whisper doesn't use a belt and pulley - it's direct drive, and the motor is brushless. It also looks kinda flat.
Looks like replacements are somewhat expensive.
 

Blame variable speed drills where we decided it’s better to raise the voltage up a bunch then chop it into three phases so we can make it variable speed. No one wants to go back to brushed motors and low battery life anytime soon. The downside, it’s easy to make torque using a drive belt and a small and large pulley. The upside, no belt maintenance,  very precise control and maintenance of speed under load or unloaded and …….. no noise. Electrical slip is quiet but unfortunately hard to get torque multiplication without that belt radius thing. Nice wheel, has its pluses and minuses. I do like the quiet operation but definitely takes getting used to for some.

Edited April 24, 2022 by Bill Kielb

[Hulk]

Reading up on direct current motors, seems that brushless are better in just about every way, except initial costs.
Expect more brushless motor pottery wheels down the road, maybe.

[Mark C.]

I have alot of brushless cordless tools now-the drill and impact drivers are great-lots of power.

[Pyewackette]

@Hulk My first car (that ran) was a 69 VW Fastback.  I loved that car!  She had a name.  Lola.

I was almost all set to rebuild her engine (I was just waiting to catch the Snapon Tool Man for the last tool needed) when I opened the trunk one day (in the front of that car) and I was looking at the tire, and it wasn't the spare.  Turned out the only thing holding it together was the heavy duty trunk liner.

Lola:  RIP.  Died of terminal rust.

[Worthitall]

I have thrown on the RK-Whisper at the school studio, and am looking to set up my home studio.

The RK-Whisper and the VL-Lite seem to have the same specs, but the RK-Whisper has a much heavier-duty outer build (with a case-mounted foot pedal vs a corded foot pedal). The RK-Whisper costs about $500 more. I am trying to determine if there is something I'm missing that would make the RK-Whisper worth an additonal $500?

Any insights?

[Bill Kielb]

The Whisper has always been the direct drive and brushless motor. Very easy to use as a turntable for decorations to spin by hand. No belt, no backlash when not powered. The VL lites have always been belted, so if still true, a bit noisy if you are not used to it. Some folks like the noise, I have grown accustomed to the quiet though. I do like my motorcycles rather loud though and postulate loud pipes saves lives. Go figure!

Edited November 25, 2022 by Bill Kielb