Liner glaze

[CactusPots]

On 1/11/2021 at 5:05 PM, CactusPots said:

I'm guessing the production potters here don't use liner glazes.  The reason for my thinking is that I don't know a way to make a clean transition between the inside glaze and the outside glaze that isn't just very time consuming.  I'm doing it with latex resist, 1st glaze, wax resist, then second glaze.  It looks good and I don't do kitchen ware very often, so not really a big deal for me.

I guess the other option would be an overlap on the outside that worked between the 2 glazes.  Not going to happen with a shino or a lot of glazes.

Here's what I've worked out as the best way to do a food safe liner glaze with completely different exterior glaze.  This is not for the production potters,  too time consuming.  You guys are going to find glaze combinations that don't require something like this.  I'm pretty sure for this effect, this is the best method.

Glaze the inside the usual way, pour the glaze in, roll it around as you pour it out.

Holding the pot upside down, get 1/4 to 1/2 inch on the rim.

When dry, scribe a line down from the rim, all the way through to the clay.  Giffin Grip to the rescue.  Easier to scribe a straight line than brush wax one.

Using some sort of scraper, remove the glaze below the scribed line.  I like a Xiem tool with a paddle head on one end.

Using a rabbit ear sponge, clean it up and smooth out the bottom of the new glaze line.

Wax inside and rim.  Much easier to wax a raised glaze edge.

Holding the pot from the inside, glaze the outside bottom first right to the wax line.

[liambesaw]

17 minutes ago, CactusPots said:

Here's what I've worked out as the best way to do a food safe liner glaze with completely different exterior glaze.  This is not for the production potters,  too time consuming.  You guys are going to find glaze combinations that don't require something like this.  I'm pretty sure for this effect, this is the best method.

Glaze the inside the usual way, pour the glaze in, roll it around as you pour it out.

Holding the pot upside down, get 1/4 to 1/2 inch on the rim.

When dry, scribe a line down from the rim, all the way through to the clay.  Giffin Grip to the rescue.  Easier to scribe a straight line than brush wax one.

Using some sort of scraper, remove the glaze below the scribed line.  I like a Xiem tool with a paddle head on one end.

Using a rabbit ear sponge, clean it up and smooth out the bottom of the new glaze line.

Wax inside and rim.  Much easier to wax a raised glaze edge.

Holding the pot from the inside, glaze the outside bottom first right to the wax line.

Don't need to wax the line, I do your entire routine there but without the wax.  I do the inside with a liner, then use a large flat knife to knock off any berries and then dip the outside by putting my hand in the mug and dipping it.  Then I wipe the bottom on wet carpet.

Super fast, super easy, super simple

 

 

 

[CactusPots]

46 minutes ago, liambesaw said:

Don't need to wax the line, I do your entire routine there but without the wax.  I do the inside with a liner, then use a large flat knife to knock off any berries and then dip the outside by putting my hand in the mug and dipping it.  Then I wipe the bottom on wet carpet.

Super fast, super easy, super simple

 

 

 

Chances are you'll either get a holiday or an overlap.   Unless you've done this 30k times and can now avoid that.  The wax makes it picture perfect right out of the box.  Worth the time, I say.

The goal is the best possible result with the minimum talent/expertise/experience.

[Mark C.]

I use my glaze jet to blast the glaze into the upside down pot. If you desire a super strait edge I just hit the top on the power sponger. .No wax no muss no fuss.

Liam's way is just about as goods well.  Once you have glazed more than 30k times this all can be done almost in your sleep.

[CactusPots]

3 hours ago, Mark C. said:

I use my glaze jet to blast the glaze into the upside down pot. If you desire a super strait edge I just hit the top on the power sponger. .No wax no muss no fuss.

Liam's way is just about as goods well.  Once you have glazed more than 30k times this all can be done almost in your sleep.

If you glaze the inside of the pot with the blaster and then remove the top, I assume you are putting the not food safe glaze on the lip now?

The object is liner glaze on the inside (and lip), super clean break and whatever glaze you like (shino, barium, much worse) on the outside.  Not making a production run.

[Mark C.]

The not safe glaze on the outside then sponge off the top(power sponger) and dip a clean line liner over just the very top again.

[Callie Beller Diesel]

I think that usually what happens is as you are required for whatever reason to make more and more mugs, you either get really fast at your given process through sheer repetition, or you get frustrated and eliminate the inefficient parts. Probably a bit of both.

[liambesaw]

2 hours ago, Callie Beller Diesel said:

I think that usually what happens is as you are required for whatever reason to make more and more mugs, you either get really fast at your given process through sheer repetition, or you get frustrated and eliminate the inefficient parts. Probably a bit of both.

You also know what to expect when you're glazing the same exact mug for the 10000th time.  

[Hulk]

Scribing a line through the glaze, good idea - using the wheel and a tool after glaze has been applied, aye.

Agreed that cutting an edge in waxed glaze can produce a cleaner transition line between glazes.

I'm still using the technique Mr. Hansen demonstrates here Liner Glazing a Stoneware Mug - YouTube for clean transition at the lip/edge - when that's the look I want.

Elsewhere, I'm carving a line whilst chucked up for trimming - just a tiny groove, which I'll typically burnish with the edge of a loop tool. From there, I'll tape to that line - plain masking tape is fine, even the cheap stuff, however, for bowls (curved surface), the nicer tape stretches better. I'm not seeing the blue stuff as necessary. For curvy lines, no doubt the automotive striping stuff (as Bill mentioned) would be great. Any road, dip glaze, wait for dry, wax, then pull the tape, voila! Ready to dip second glaze. I've taped miles, having worked as a painter - I was a spray person. Perhaps I should work on my brush technique ...taping is fast and familiar for me. Pull the tape so the tape's edge cuts the layer cleanly; one may find pulling the tape before the wax has completely set up works better...

[Min]

16 hours ago, CactusPots said:

If you glaze the inside of the pot with the blaster and then remove the top, I assume you are putting the not food safe glaze on the lip now?

Another reason to use a liner glaze is to make it easier to see what's inside. Perfectly fine to have say a tenmoku glaze on the outside right up to and over the rim of a mug but by using it inside a mug also makes seeing the colour of brewing tea or how much milk has been added to the drink difficult. Light colour liner glaze not because the tenmoku is a safety issue but for practical reasons. Liner glaze with fountain or pouring then sponge off the rim and dip upside down into the outside glaze and touch up the fingermarks or dip right side up then dip the rim. Either way can go over the liner glaze or not depending on the look you are after.

[Hulk]

First glaze load in a while, here's some liner transitions - all at the rim, excepting the blue arrow one, where I poured the liner, then dipped to the taped line - plain masking tape (decent tape, not cheap sticky thin unflexy stuff). Once the glaze dried some, I waxed that line and a bit later, pulled the tape. Next day, bottom first dip in the blue. Taping down a bit from the edge seems easier and faster than going for a sharp line at the rim. Hard to see the tooled edge I taped to on the blue arrow mug, but clearly visible on the red arrow mugs, made with the curved end of a small spatula, which smooths and burnishes the lip parkin' spot a bit, imparts a slight recurve there, and, in the blue arrow case, also leaves a handy line to tape to. 
I like the look of the sharp transition at the lip better. On a dark clay, however, I'll try the liner wrapped around again.

Also, ah'm pleased with the five green mugs - have been working on repeats, trying to get close to same without using a gauge.

The blue arrow one test/trial of new (to me) white stoneware. I like the stoneware.

[Bill Kielb]

9 minutes ago, Hulk said:

Also, ah'm pleased with the five green mugs - have been working on repeats, trying to get close to same without using a gauge.

They all look nice! 1/4” wide real automotive pinstripe tape is super easy to use btw. Being lazy I have resorted to pouring out the inside and cleaning that edge as practical with a sharp tool. Then spraying the outside of the mug controlling my spray as I go. I can get a pretty decent transition with a bit of care.

[Hulk]

Looks good Bill!

I'm not set up to spray at my home studio. I might set up for airbrush - some day.

This last round, I actually enjoyed glazing - it's getting easier, with practice.

[Dick White]

14 hours ago, Bill Kielb said:

They all look nice! 1/4” wide real automotive pinstripe tape is super easy to use btw. Being lazy I have resorted to pouring out the inside and cleaning that edge as practical with a sharp tool. Then spraying the outside of the mug controlling my spray as I go. I can get a pretty decent transition with a bit of care.

 

Bill, after you have poured out the inside and cleaned up the rim, blow up a medium size party balloon and put it in the mouth of the mug.  Then spray the exterior with abandon knowing that the balloon will keep out any overspray. This also works for dipping. Inflate the balloon while draped partially inside the mug so it has a good grip on the interior, pinch the balloon neck with your thumb and finger and hold the whole shebang by the balloon, and then push the suspended mug down into the glaze bucket.

[Bill Kielb]

1 hour ago, Dick White said:

Bill, after you have poured out the inside and cleaned up the rim, blow up a medium size party balloon and put it in the mouth of the mug.  Then spray the exterior with abandon knowing that the balloon will keep out any overspray. This also works for dipping. Inflate the balloon while draped partially inside the mug so it has a good grip on the interior, pinch the balloon neck with your thumb and finger and hold the whole shebang by the balloon, and then push the suspended mug down into the glaze bucket.

Yes I have done that and it works. Balloon gets to be a mess though. For the most part I can spray around pretty cleanly do it without the balloon. Just lazy now days. Lots of practice spraying cars, boats, motorcycles when younger. Occasionally can make a mistake though.

[Olena]

Hey guys! So is it absolutely necessary to use a liner glaze on the inside of funcional ceramics to make it food safe? Using a food safe glaze is not enough? I just dont really like when the inside and outside colours are too different or just plane white in the inside, plus it seems it is difficult to get that smooth transition 

[Bill Kielb]

2 hours ago, Olena said:

Hey guys! So is it absolutely necessary to use a liner glaze on the inside of funcional ceramics to make it food safe? Using a food safe glaze is not enough? I just dont really like when the inside and outside colours are too different or just plane white in the inside, plus it seems it is difficult to get that smooth transition 

So IMO it’s a personal preference thing. Many potters simply realize that it’s near impossible to be able to test all combinations of clay, glaze, firing etc.... so they err on the conservative side by using what they feel is a known durable plain white or clear glaze  for food services. Usually these folks will simply not use questionable colorants and fluxes as well. Food safe simply means no lead or cadmium, but I for instance will not use vanadium, barium, etc..... just out of an abundance of caution. Still others will use encapsulated underglazes with a known durable clear glaze over them to get a decorated look.

So what do you feel comfortable doing and why is only something the individual can answer for themselves.

As to transitions, there are many ways to get them neatly and that skill is useful to have no matter what is being made. (See pictures above)

[Olena]

2 hours ago, Bill Kielb said:

So IMO it’s a personal preference thing. Many potters simply realize that it’s near impossible to be able to test all combinations of clay, glaze, firing etc.... so they err on the conservative side by using what they feel is a known durable plain white or clear glaze  for food services. Usually these folks will simply not use questionable colorants and fluxes as well. Food safe simply means no lead or cadmium, but I for instance will not use vanadium, barium, etc..... just out of an abundance of caution. Still others will use encapsulated underglazes with a known durable clear glaze over them to get a decorated look.

So what do you feel comfortable doing and why is only something the individual can answer for themselves.

As to transitions, there are many ways to get them neatly and that skill is useful to have no matter what is being made. (See pictures above)

Thank you for your answer! This world of glazes is to still to be mastered in my case. Just really want to be careful in case of functional ceramics