Advice for a new business.

[rox54]

I'm new to this forum and just found this thread. I'm happy to hear everyone is doing so well in these times. However I am struggling and would love some advice. I am a hobby potter just trying to get some sales to keep me busy. I seem well received and have sold enough since I started retailing to pay off my kiln and wheel and tent.  I don't have a following to speak of, but I only do about 3 shows a year so maybe thats my shortcoming. Any advice would be appreciated.

https://www.instagram.com/muddyroxpottery/?hl=en

https://www.muddyroxpottery.com/

[Mark C.]

5 hours ago, rox54 said:

I'm new to this forum and just found this thread. I'm happy to hear everyone is doing so well in these times. However I am struggling and would love some advice. I am a hobby potter just trying to get some sales to keep me busy. I seem well received and have sold enough since I started retailing to pay off my kiln and wheel and tent.  I don't have a following to speak of, but I only do about 3 shows a year so maybe thats my shortcoming. Any advice would be appreciated.

https://www.instagram.com/muddyroxpottery/?hl=en

https://www.muddyroxpottery.com/

Rox I'm not sure what you are asking-there has been volumes written about how to increase sales in the forums. You have not said what you expect to do $ wise. Since its a hobby and all your stuff is paid off are you wanting more.I assume you have another job or a partner who has a job and clay is part time. Shows are just one way to sell.Since covid most shows are on hold so having other revenue sources for pottery is whats needed. I have written about that exact thing for years. what are your goals with pottery?Your pots look fine and very marketable.You can expand to consignment or wholesale but of couse thats a commitment and many hobbyists do not want that word in their world.

[rox54]

40 minutes ago, Mark C. said:

Rox I'm not sure what you are asking-there has been volumes written about how to increase sales in the forums. You have not said what you expect to do $ wise. Since its a hobby and all your stuff is paid off are you wanting more.I assume you have another job or a partner who has a job and clay is part time. Shows are just one way to sell.Since covid most shoiws are on hold so having other revenue sources for pottery is whats needed. I have written about that exact thing for years. what are your goals with pottery?Your pots look fine and very marketable.You can expand to consignment or wholesale but of couse thats a commitment and many hobbyists do not want that word in their world.

Sorry, I should have done my homework. I'll do a search here to garner more info. Best.

[Roberta12]

1 hour ago, rox54 said:

I'm new to this forum and just found this thread. I'm happy to hear everyone is doing so well in these times. However I am struggling and would love some advice. I am a hobby potter just trying to get some sales to keep me busy. I seem well received and have sold enough since I started retailing to pay off my kiln and wheel and tent.  I don't have a following to speak of, but I only do about 3 shows a year so maybe thats my shortcoming. Any advice would be appreciated.

https://www.instagram.com/muddyroxpottery/?hl=en

https://www.muddyroxpottery.com/

Hi @rox54   Welcome to the forum.  Mark is correct, there are a lot of posts considering the sales topic.  I live in a rural somewhat remote area.  I started small, at small craft shows.  I have to keep it manageable for me, as in production, travel, set up so I have purposely been selective on the shows I apply for and attend.  I did build a bit of a fan base through shows, so that will definitely be an issue for you right now unless your area is more open than mine... My business fb page is specifically geared towards locals, simply because that is how a lot of people here communicate, and that is how let people know about restocks and sales opportunities.  My instagram page is more to keep in touch with other potters and some sales, but that isn't what my intention was in setting it up. 

I have found places in our valley for wholesale and commission.  This would be a good time for you to source out those places.  (not all are the same, believe me!) 

But take a look at some of the threads on this forum concerning wholesale, commission, promotion, shows, sales, sales opportunities, marketing 

And I looked at your IG page and website.  Your work is lovely and very marketable.    Things will be slow right now, so you can take your time doing research.  That way you will have a plan for when the weather is nicer and things really do open up!

Roberta

[rox54]

11 minutes ago, Roberta12 said:

Hi @rox54   Welcome to the forum.  Mark is correct, there are a lot of posts considering the sales topic.  I live in a rural somewhat remote area.  I started small, at small craft shows.  I have to keep it manageable for me, as in production, travel, set up so I have purposely been selective on the shows I apply for and attend.  I did build a bit of a fan base through shows, so that will definitely be an issue for you right now unless your area is more open than mine... My business fb page is specifically geared towards locals, simply because that is how a lot of people here communicate, and that is how let people know about restocks and sales opportunities.  My instagram page is more to keep in touch with other potters and some sales, but that isn't what my intention was in setting it up. 

I have found places in our valley for wholesale and commission.  This would be a good time for you to source out those places.  (not all are the same, believe me!) 

But take a look at some of the threads on this forum concerning wholesale, commission, promotion, shows, sales, sales opportunities, marketing 

And I looked at your IG page and website.  Your work is lovely and very marketable.    Things will be slow right now, so you can take your time doing research.  That way you will have a plan for when the weather is nicer and things really do open up!

Roberta

Thank you Roberta for the very helpful start in my quest! Relating your experiences, use of shows and social media, and providing key words to search this site for is much appreciated.  Hope this year is  a prosperous and peaceful one for you!

[Roberta12]

2 hours ago, rox54 said:

Thank you Roberta for the very helpful start in my quest! Relating your experiences, use of shows and social media, and providing key words to search this site for is much appreciated.  Hope this year is  a prosperous and peaceful one for you!

Just keep in mind you will have to find what works for you and your selling area and what you are willing to do to market your goods.    We are all different!!  

[Callie Beller Diesel]

Hi @rox54! I thought your question deserved it’s own thread, so I’ve split it off from the one it began in, as well as the responses of the folks that have replied to you.

[Mark C.]

If you search from the main page you will get a better response.

[Callie Beller Diesel]

Also, if you could give us an idea of where you want your business to go, we can give you better information. Systems that work for a full time production potter may not be the same things that work for someone selling small one of a kind pieces online part time. Do you have a day job you’re having to work around? Do you intend for this to be a side gig or part time income, or do you want to go full time road warrior, or somewhere in between? Making a bit of a business plan is super beneficial whatever route you decide to pursue. It doesn’t have to be the same kind you’d take to a bank, but you should lay out what you’re going to sell, who you’re going to sell it to, how you want to get in front of them, how much you hope to earn doing it. Who are you getting your supplies from, and what will that cost?

While there’s lots of stuff already written, don’t be afraid to ask for clarification, or for updates on older threads. One of the updates on the forum software in recent months is slowly archiving posts older than 3 years, so they may not be open for further comments. If you reference an older post, it might be a good idea to add a link to it so we know exactly what you’re referencing.

[rox54]

Thanks to all for the thoughtful replies. As I said earlier, I'm just looking to sell enough to keep making; not looking to earn a full living. I appreciate Mark that you think I'm marketable and I do too, which is what made me ask for thoughts in the original thread. My Christmas season was unsuccessful.  More to the point, what would successful potters say is their best avenue for gaining customers, whether it be a heavy show schedule, galleries, social media etc. I know that its different for each person, but maybe I'm not putting enough into it with 3-4 shows per year and 3 small gift shops. I will take more time to search the site. With the pandemic, I have plenty of time for research!

[liambesaw]

26 minutes ago, rox54 said:

Thanks to all for the thoughtful replies. As I said earlier, I'm just looking to sell enough to keep making; not looking to earn a full living. I appreciate Mark that you think I'm marketable and I do too, which is what made me ask for thoughts in the original thread. My Christmas season was unsuccessful.  More to the point, what would successful potters say is their best avenue for gaining customers, whether it be a heavy show schedule, galleries, social media etc. I know that its different for each person, but maybe I'm not putting enough into it with 3-4 shows per year and 3 small gift shops. I will take more time to search the site. With the pandemic, I have plenty of time for research!

Never going to beat in-person sales in both value and volume.  Sounds like you're making more than you can sell right now so I'd add a show or two to your schedule.  

[Bam2015]

I can't give you advice on selling, I am a hobby potter, but would like to tell you that your work is beautiful. 

 

[rox54]

54 minutes ago, Bam2015 said:

I can't give you advice on selling, I am a hobby potter, but would like to tell you that your work is beautiful. 

 

Thank you so much for strengthening my confidence! It's nice that we can support each other!

[GEP]

12 hours ago, rox54 said:

My Christmas season was unsuccessful. 

Would you be  willing to tell us what marketing efforts you made during the Christmas season? We could give you feedback that was more specifically tailored to you. 

[Sorcery]

Husband shoots?

How about a t-shirt with an advertisement for mugs on the back that says "hand-crafted shell catchers available at MuddyRoxPottery.com."

Or a Fishing one that says, I may have an empty stringer, but my Mug from MuddyRoxPottery.com is full!

I absolutely love the colors of the Website mugs. The primary colors with accent scheme is one I adore! You nail it!

Sorce

 

 

[Mark C.]

14 hours ago, rox54 said:

Thanks to all for the thoughtful replies. As I said earlier, I'm just looking to sell enough to keep making; not looking to earn a full living. I appreciate Mark that you think I'm marketable and I do too, which is what made me ask for thoughts in the original thread. My Christmas season was unsuccessful.  More to the point, what would successful potters say is their best avenue for gaining customers, whether it be a heavy show schedule, galleries, social media etc. I know that its different for each person, but maybe I'm not putting enough into it with 3-4 shows per year and 3 small gift shops. I will take more time to search the site. With the pandemic, I have plenty of time for research!

As I sad the pots are fine and should sell well. Form and glaze is good. Price points need to be where folks can buy them

'Gaining traction with a large customer base takes time -how long have you had your work out in public eye? If i.t less tha. 5 years you are just starting out

What has worked for me in the past 45 years is doing the same shows over and over-the same shows-that way you build a customer base at that venue that expands every show.

I also like shows that attract large numbers (not in coved times). These tend to be yearly shows that ate in communities that only have one big show not a show every week say like the San Fransico Bay Area does.

Locally I do my two shows twice a year and that base builds  over time.It took about 10-15 years for me to be really sucessfull.

In terms of shows that nets you the most money and exposes you to the most people. 

In terms of wholesale or consignment that can also be a dependable monthly check. You make a bit less but the overhead is less as well.

I have a huge local exposure in my 4 local organic supermarkets-they have my brand name on the display. People see this every week locally.That also expanded my market. Thats a wholesale

deal that I have to fill orders every week or two depending on season -at xmas every three days for some outlets .Markets do not like to backstock much

The gift shops are easier as you take them work and they can store some in back.They sell far less than markets unless its super strong venue -I have lucked out and have two one is  800 miles away and buys twice a year .They average  just over 5k an order for two orders a year ,its wholesale . The other is a local consignment outklet that does extremely well and is my best seller-the split is 50/50%.This shop can sell potsand I mean lots.

Finding your mix of how and what you sell is a hard task. Its always different for each of us. At this point I turn down shops and opportunities as I'm on the other end of my career.

Consignment places are risky and trust is key. I would be very carefull about them starting out. I have had at least 6 go under in my 45 years. Of couse I have not been in anew one for over 25 years and would at this point never get into one again. (I still have two) 

Just relying  on shows at this point may also not be a good idea with covid.

As to social media-etsy etc I have no solid experience in that firld as really do not want to go there. I do not need to but its necessary starting out these days I feel for new potters who want to expand markets and sell online. Hype will help you expecially in online world. In my world it was gained buy years and years and years on the street.

[rox54]

1 hour ago, GEP said:

Would you be  willing to tell us what marketing efforts you made during the Christmas season? We could give you feedback that was more specifically tailored to you. 

First let me catch my breath that I'm chatting with Mea! Love your work and your videos. I especially enjoyed the one you offered on pricing.

To be honest, I didn't do much for Christmas, having lost steam with all of my shows being cancelled. I was disappointed because I was working to up my game to better juried shows. I don't do well in "craft" shows and have been told at those events that my work is considered "giftable". I did get into a well trafficked gift shop, although my state of PA has a lot of covid restrictions and many people are just staying home. I did a giveaway on Instagram and gained many new followers, but no buyers. I often wonder if I should have just one look. My glazes and techniques are so varied that maybe it confuses buyers. It's hard for me to pick just one tho!

Since starting this thread, I've come to the conclusion that I will try to add more shows and another gift shop or two. I will also try to post more on Instagram. I'm not sure if Etsy is another avenue to try.

1 hour ago, Sorcery said:

Husband shoots?

How about a t-shirt with an advertisement for mugs on the back that says "hand-crafted shell catchers available at MuddyRoxPottery.com."

Or a Fishing one that says, I may have an empty stringer, but my Mug from MuddyRoxPottery.com is full!

I absolutely love the colors of the Website mugs. The primary colors with accent scheme is one I adore! You nail it!

Sorce

 

 

Clever ideas! Thank you for the compliment:)

[Mark C.]

In terms of glaze colors-it can work both ways. Mea has made the one color look work well for here. I on the other hand have about 15 to choose from with lots of combinations..People look for the  color selection from me and thats what works the best for me. For Her its the opposite .

I can tell by looking at your site color is important to you looking at those glazes -I suggest sticking to that offering.It will appeal to lots of buyers as so many folks like such different colors-its abroad appeal.

[GEP]

I do not advocate that everybody has to choose one color scheme, just because I do it. The goal should be that all of your work has enough connective tissue between the individual pieces that a viewer can see one piece, out of context, and know who made it. Mark’s work achieves that even with all the various colors. The connective tissue is there. 

@rox54, on your website, your work is organized into five different collections. Some of them relate to each other, and some are way out on their own stylewise. I love the mugs pictured on the front page of your website, however I can’t quite determine which collection they belong in.  (I think it’s Earth and Sky, but only because Earth and Sky is the broadest.) All of this sends a message that you are unsure of yourself as an artist. That doesn’t mean this is true,  just that the message is being sent. So you are correct that it is confusing, from a customer perspective. When your work is displayed in a 10x10ft show booth, you only have a few seconds to catch a customer’s attention. If they can’t figure out what you’re selling, they’ll move on. 

This doesn’t mean you should drop four of your collections today. Like you said, that’s very hard to do, and the right decision will take a lot of time and careful thought. (And metrics! Which you learned in my video). And again, it doesn’t mean all of your work needs to end up in a single color scheme. (Look up the work of Steven Showalter on instagram. His work is a rainbow of colors, and a large variety of forms. But the connective tissue is very strong.)

Absolutely you should be applying for a higher grade of juried shows, starting as soon as shows are allowed to open again. What type of show do you mean by “craft” show, that you say you don’t do well in? Some people use that term to refer to low-end kitchy shows, but it can also refer to the high end of the craft world too. 

[rox54]

46 minutes ago, Mark C. said:

In terms of glaze colors-it can work both ways. Mea has made the one color look work well for here. I on the other hand have about 15 to choose from with lots of combinations..People look for the  color selection from me and thats what works the best for me. For Her its the opposite .

I can tell by looking at your site color is important to you looking at those glazes -I suggest sticking to that offering.It will appeal to lots of buyers as so many folks like such different colors-its abroad appeal.

Mark, THANK YOU for taking so much time offering very good advice. I've been doing this less than 5 years, so I'll take solace in that. I did 2 years of 1 gift shop and 1-2 shows, then one year of 3 shows and adding another shop, then last year was covid. I really only want this to be part-time as my day job is part-time but I am not a youngster either so I guess I'm impatient. I think pottery will keep me young tho as I look to Beatrice Wood!

[rox54]

4 minutes ago, GEP said:

I do not advocate that everybody has to choose one color scheme, just because I do it. The goal should be that all of your work has enough connective tissue between the individual pieces that a viewer can see one piece, out of context, and know who made it. Mark’s work achieves that even with all the various colors. The connective tissue is there. 

@rox54, on your website, your work is organized into five different collections. Some of them relate to each other, and some are way out on their own stylewise. I love the mugs pictured on the front page of your website, however I can’t quite determine which collection they belong in.  (I think it’s Earth and Sky, but only because Earth and Sky is the broadest.) All of this sends a message that you are unsure of yourself as an artist. That doesn’t mean this is true,  just that the message is being sent. So you are correct that it is confusing, from a customer perspective. When your work is displayed in a 10x10ft show booth, you only have a few seconds to catch a customer’s attention. If they can’t figure out what you’re selling, they’ll move on. 

This doesn’t mean you should drop four of your collections today. Like you said, that’s very hard to do, and the right decision will take a lot of time and careful thought. (And metrics! Which you learned in my video). And again, it doesn’t mean all of your work needs to end up in a single color scheme. (Look up the work of Steven Showalter on instagram. His work is a rainbow of colors, and a large variety of forms. But the connective tissue is very strong.)

Absolutely you should be applying for a higher grade of juried shows, starting as soon as shows are allowed to open again. What type of show do you mean by “craft” show, that you say you don’t do well in? Some people use that term to refer to low-end kitchy shows, but it can also refer to the high end of the craft world too. 

Thank you for looking at my website and commenting on glaze. I had been thinking of limiting myself to a couple glaze techniques that coordinate with each other.  As far as metrics, my Bloom collection is well received but blends the least with the others perhaps. I also founded that on a less than healthy technique of scratching off glaze from bisqued  work (wearing a masque and outside). 

As far as shows, I try to look at other ceramic artists in attendance to avoid kitchy shows. It seems that my area has way too many shows and that could be part of the problem, as Mark said.  I don't travel far, so that limits me. 

[Callie Beller Diesel]

I think you need to choose a way that you want to work, and then study the best way of going about that. Wether it’s your galleries, doing shows or focusing online, if you put in regular maintenance and effort, it’ll grow given time. The trick is to be consistent. Your work is beautiful, and you should have no problem moving it. I don’t think the problem is your work at all.

I had a poke around your instagram and website, coming at it as though I just discovered your page, and wanted to see w hat your prices were and to see if you had a newsletter I could sign up for so I could learn more. Some of the following may come across as harsh, in the absence of body language or voice tone to soften this. Know that my intent is to just give information. It’s only information, and websites and social media are ongoing projects. You’re never done improving them. 

Some observations about your website and social media. 

At first glance, your instagram has lovely photos. Your top 18 photos are pretty and on topic. It’s easy to click follow, because I like what I see, and I’m hoping for more of the same. Your bio is a bit vague, but not a deal breaker. It doesn’t tell me where you’re out of, or if I’m supporting an artist local to me, or how this art might appeal to me. I see you did a giveaway...in August. And then didn’t post again in your feed until December 20. That’s too long if you want to use instagram as a sales avenue. After your giveaway, you didn’t do any follow up that encouraged people to go check out items for sale on your website. Online, you really have to spell things out for people and tell them exactly what you want them to do. You’ll hear marketers talk about using a call to action. A call to action isn’t “I made a pretty butter dish! Link in bio.” A call to action is “If you missed out on winning your favourite piece in the giveaway, there are these other ones in my shop. Go check it out through the bio right now and pick your favourite!”  . I’m not saying you need to post 3 times a day, but at least a few times a week is a good idea. This might be mitigated if you’re more active on your stories, but those disappear after 24 hours, and you didn’t have any active when I was browsing through.

When I went to your website through the link in your bio, I find your website isn’t optimized for either sales, or for viewing on a mobile device. If you visit your website straight from instagram on a mobile phone, some of the elements jump around as they’re loading, which I found physically uncomfortable. There are far more pictures on your desktop view than there are on the mobile view. The drop down menus land in a weird place, and it’s really difficult to find pieces with prices. After finding an item I might have liked with a price attached to it, I find you require people to email you for purchase, which involves a trip to yet another part of your website. There is no direct link provided for this, and I have to go back to the main menu. All of this is making your customer work way to hard to purchase something from that particular sales avenue. If I hadn’t been on a specific mission to find it, I would have assumed after 2-3 clicks that you didn’t have anything in your shop at the moment and left. In fact, on the first pass, I did. I went into a browser on my laptop and discovered it was possible, if complicated, and went back into my phone to see if I could find it.  

I think that if the layout is an issue with your template, you need a new template. You have paid enough to your chosen website building platform to remove their branding. Typically that comes with some form of e-commerce option. What’s the reasoning behind not using it? 

Also, the only place I could find to sign up for your newsletter was on your contact page, and it appears to be incorporated with your “contact me” box. I know people tend to hate the idea of pop ups that solicit these things, but I can say that they work beautifully, and you can set them so they only occur once to a given IP address so they’re not invasive. I just did mine through Mailchimp.

 

[GEP]

I like the Bloom collection, and the techniques can certainly be adapted to carving slip off at the leatherhard stage, rather than scratching glaze off at the bisque stage. Slip carved surfaces can also be combined with transparent or translucent glazes, creating more connection with your other styles?  You don’t need to take my exact suggestions, I’m only giving examples of how you should be thinking going forward. (how to make this safer or easier, how to create more cohesion, etc). 

[rox54]

49 minutes ago, Callie Beller Diesel said:

I think you need to choose a way that you want to work, and then study the best way of going about that. Wether it’s your galleries, doing shows or focusing online, if you put in regular maintenance and effort, it’ll grow given time. The trick is to be consistent. Your work is beautiful, and you should have no problem moving it. I don’t think the problem is your work at all.

I had a poke around your instagram and website, coming at it as though I just discovered your page, and wanted to see w hat your prices were and to see if you had a newsletter I could sign up for so I could learn more. Some of the following may come across as harsh, in the absence of body language or voice tone to soften this. Know that my intent is to just give information. It’s only information, and websites and social media are ongoing projects. You’re never done improving them. 

Some observations about your website and social media. 

At first glance, your instagram has lovely photos. Your top 18 photos are pretty and on topic. It’s easy to click follow, because I like what I see, and I’m hoping for more of the same. Your bio is a bit vague, but not a deal breaker. It doesn’t tell me where you’re out of, or if I’m supporting an artist local to me, or how this art might appeal to me. I see you did a giveaway...in August. And then didn’t post again in your feed until December 20. That’s too long if you want to use instagram as a sales avenue. After your giveaway, you didn’t do any follow up that encouraged people to go check out items for sale on your website. Online, you really have to spell things out for people and tell them exactly what you want them to do. You’ll hear marketers talk about using a call to action. A call to action isn’t “I made a pretty butter dish! Link in bio.” A call to action is “If you missed out on winning your favourite piece in the giveaway, there are these other ones in my shop. Go check it out through the bio right now and pick your favourite!”  . I’m not saying you need to post 3 times a day, but at least a few times a week is a good idea. This might be mitigated if you’re more active on your stories, but those disappear after 24 hours, and you didn’t have any active when I was browsing through.

When I went to your website through the link in your bio, I find your website isn’t optimized for either sales, or for viewing on a mobile device. If you visit your website straight from instagram on a mobile phone, some of the elements jump around as they’re loading, which I found physically uncomfortable. There are far more pictures on your desktop view than there are on the mobile view. The drop down menus land in a weird place, and it’s really difficult to find pieces with prices. After finding an item I might have liked with a price attached to it, I find you require people to email you for purchase, which involves a trip to yet another part of your website. There is no direct link provided for this, and I have to go back to the main menu. All of this is making your customer work way to hard to purchase something from that particular sales avenue. If I hadn’t been on a specific mission to find it, I would have assumed after 2-3 clicks that you didn’t have anything in your shop at the moment and left. In fact, on the first pass, I did. I went into a browser on my laptop and discovered it was possible, if complicated, and went back into my phone to see if I could find it.  

I think that if the layout is an issue with your template, you need a new template. You have paid enough to your chosen website building platform to remove their branding. Typically that comes with some form of e-commerce option. What’s the reasoning behind not using it? 

Also, the only place I could find to sign up for your newsletter was on your contact page, and it appears to be incorporated with your “contact me” box. I know people tend to hate the idea of pop ups that solicit these things, but I can say that they work beautifully, and you can set them so they only occur once to a given IP address so they’re not invasive. I just did mine through Mailchimp.

 

Not "harsh" at all and points well taken. I appreciate the time taken. My website is new to me and I was attempting to keep cost down which explains no e-commerce,  but lesson learned in that going half-in online, when scheduling shows and being in a limited number of shops, isnt gaining me anything. I need to invest more in at least one avenue. Thank you.

54 minutes ago, GEP said:

I like the Bloom collection, and the techniques can certainly be adapted to carving slip off at the leatherhard stage, rather than scratching glaze off at the bisque stage. Slip carved surfaces can also be combined with transparent or translucent glazes, creating more connection with your other styles?  You don’t need to take my exact suggestions, I’m only giving examples of how you should be thinking going forward. (how to make this safer or easier, how to create more cohesion, etc). 

I did try the slip technique (but only once) and it was just ok in that it didnt have the same texture and impact, but I can certainly experiment more. Thank you.

Thanks to all for sharing your knowledge!

[Min]

On 1/2/2021 at 8:57 AM, rox54 said:

I am a hobby potter just trying to get some sales to keep me busy.

Since you are selling pots I would stop referring to yourself as a hobby potter. You are a potter. Call yourself as working part time at it if you like but to me the term hobby potter doesn't really encompass selling work on the scale you have described. Being a hobby potter is wonderful, I hope to get there someday, but from a business perspective that's not how I would market yourself.