Kiln “noodles”

[Angela D]

 Very new to pottery I’ve just purchased a second-hand kiln. It’s a Duncan ES127 Kiln Sitter K, I can’t find any references to the serial number anywhere on line! The seller says I should cover the base of the kiln with “noodles” before putting in first shelf with supports. A bag of noodles have been supplied, they are short white cinder type of material, again I can find nothing on line relating to “kiln noodles”. Anyone out there know what I am talking about?!!  Any info greatly appreciated. AD

[neilestrick]

I have never heard of this, and I sell and repair kilns for a living. Can you post a picture of the noodles? Did he say what they are supposed to do? Are they lightweight, like they'll add insulation to the floor?

[Angela D]

Thanks for the prompt reply, I’ve taken a picture of the “noodles “ they are are very light, approx 1cm in length, I was told they go in at the base, so I suppose as a form of insulation. Do you know this model of kiln? Inside it looks different to those I’ve seen on line as the bricks aren’t visible, it appears to be a white lining? I only picked it up this afternoon, dark now in UK so haven’t had a good look inside yet. Thanks for any knowledge you have regarding the kiln and it’s noodles!

[neilestrick]

@AngelaD My first concern is not knowing what they're made of. If they're spun silica you need to be really careful about handling them because they'll release silica fibers into the air and you don't want to breath those. If they're something old-school then they could have asbestos or other nastiness in them. Are they hard or soft? I would not use them or handle them unless someone on here can verify what they are. The may just be something the previous owner decided on his own to use. And we don't know what them they can handle. For them to provide good insulation, you'd need a lot of them. And honestly, kilns don't need extra stuff on the floor. Just be sure to put a shelf at the bottom, up on 1/2" posts. That will protect the floor and provide an air gap that insulates a bit.

Is the entire kiln white fiber, or just the floor and lid?

[Angela D]

Hi Neil the “substance” is very soft, turns powdery when crushed ( I’ve just rushed to wash my hands!) it’s not fibrous at all.  The kiln interior floor and lid are fibre, but the walls are a hard material, lozenge shaped raised continuous pattern, sorry probably not described it that well. I was told by the seller a now deceased relative used the kiln for  bisque firing porcelain dolls and had a second kiln for glazing, if that helps. I’m a bit worried I’ve bought something that is not a kiln!( hope it wasn’t asbestos that got the relative! I mentioned it because she wasn’t available to ask questions of)

[neilestrick]

@AngelaD Yeah, don't touch that stuff until someone who knows about it chimes in. The dust couple be harmful. Post a couple pictures of the kiln interior. Also a shot of the serial plate that has all the wattage and amperage info.

[Angela D]

Hi Neil

The serial plate and a couple of interior pictures.Thanks for your help. Angela

 

[Angela D]

I’ve found the “noodles” a supplier in UK. Not sure I need to use the insulation though? No description of its uses or what it’s made off.

[liambesaw]

I'm guessing it's used to stabilize the bottom shelf since the bottom is fiber.  Hard to stabilize anything on fiber without compressing it too much.  Kind of a genius move.  Spreads the weight of the bottom shelf evenly across the floor.

[Angela D]

Thanks,that seems to make sense as I’ve pressed the bottom of the kiln and there does seem to be some movement.  Can I just ask if you have come across this kiln before? I can’t find an ES 127 anywhere, nor have I seen kilns where the bricks are not visible. Thanks for any info you may have.

[liambesaw]

7 minutes ago, Angela D said:

Thanks,that seems to make sense as I’ve pressed the bottom of the kiln and there does seem to be some movement.  Can I just ask if you have come across this kiln before? I can’t find an ES 127 anywhere, nor have I seen kilns where the bricks are not visible. Thanks for any info you may have.

I've seen full fiber kilns before, pretty common in Europe as an energy saving move.

[Angela D]

Thank you, I was beginning to think I had bought something that was not a “proper” kiln as I haven’t seen anything similar on my internet searches! At least I now know it’s a full fibre kiln.

[Roberta12]

I am simply curious about this kiln.  Where are the elements???  behind the fiber??  

Roberta

[Angela D]

I’m curious too, I haven’t tried looking behind the lining, I’m waiting for someone to say they know that model! Although it’s a “Duncan kiln” internet searches have revealed nothing similar....a bit worrying, I paid £350 sterling.

[Min]

Paragon bought out Duncan kilns in 1996, send them an email with all your pictures. If you could come back here with their reply that would be great.

Paragon's email is: info@paragonweb.com

[Angela D]

Will do, thanks for contact details .

[neilestrick]

Paragon and others make some of their small kilns this way. The elements are imbedded in the fiber, just deep enough to hold them in. You'll see them glow through the fiber when you turn it on. I've only seen it done that way in small kilns that are meant for low fire use- glass fusing and annealing and such- because they hardly ever (if ever) need the elements changed when you're only firing to 1700F.  I believe Skutt is now making the lids on their smaller glass kilns that way. It's a good solution for that application because it prevents bricks shedding. They just sell you a new lid if the element wears out because the element has to be imbedded in the fiber during the lid forming process.

Since there are no longer parts available for your kiln, you're in a situation where you can fire it until the elements wear out and then it's done. Unless you can figure out a way to replace the elements. Does the quilted inner layer pull away to reveal the elements? The serial plate says it'll go to cone 5, but that means you shouldn't be trying to fire it above cone 1 or so. It's really made for low fire work. Depending on the condition of the elements, you may get several hundred low-fire firings out of it before it's dead. 

I've seen many of the larger Duncan kilns that have fiber lids and floors, but I've never seen the noodles. It does seem like a good way to distribute the weight of the bottom shelf. Not sure I would trust them on a large kiln, but it makes sense for small kilns like this.

[PeterH]

There are some manuals at https://paragonweb.com/support/instruction-manuals/

 

At least this one Duncan EA-092 and EA-122 Instruction Manual LX855 shows a fibre interior

[Chilly]

Hmm.  I have a very old,  standard  pottery kiln (Potterycrafts).  Several years back I fired some low fire clay to ^6.  Yes, it melted and left a puddle on the floor of the kiln.  Several firings later I lightly tapped the mess and it came away, together with some of the brick floor.

Potterycrafts advised (and provided)  some "loose fill" stuff to level the floor  Looks just like that stuff above.  I did use some of the bag, but also put the smallest shelf supports on the floor, and now only fire on the shelf, not the floor.

 

 

[oldlady]

angela, the photo of the interior of your kiln shows only a rod sticking out of the kiln sitter.  do you have the two flat pieces that hold a cone under the rod?  if you use a mirror to see the structure of the sitter, you might see two slots angled like the letter V.   if you do not have them, the kiln sitter cannot be used until you get them.   to turn off the kiln, a cone is placed on the two pieces i mentioned.  the rod is placed on top of the cone and will release a weight that will turn off the kiln when the temperature and time indicate the firing is over.

cones are now made to fit better in the sitter and are called bars.   

[Angela D]

Hi 

On 12/6/2020 at 9:54 PM, PeterH said:

There are some manuals at https://paragonweb.com/support/instruction-manuals/

 

At least this one Duncan EA-092 and EA-122 Instruction Manual LX855 shows a fibre interior

Many thanks for finding this and showing the fibre interior, at least others have been made this way, it’s possibly older than I thought!

[Babs]

Photo shows top of fire is friable..you may find what to coat it with. Fibre is dangerous when breaking up and shedding .

[PeterH]

8 hours ago, Babs said:

Photo shows top of fire is friable..you may find what to coat it with. Fibre is dangerous when breaking up and shedding .

@Babs Correct me if I'm wrong, but Fibre Rigidiser might be a good search term.

[Angela D]

I have the metal pieces which hold the cone which is a positive, but it now looks as if I shall need to investigate the fibre now and find a fibre rigidiser.  It’s looking like less of a bargain  buy

[Babs]

5 hours ago, Angela D said:

I have the metal pieces which hold the cone which is a positive, but it now looks as if I shall need to investigate the fibre now and find a fibre rigidiser.  It’s looking like less of a bargain  buy

It would pay to cut a protector , light plywood?,to place on fibre to . Place it when loading. Fibre can get damaged and compressed whe n loading, can create gaps.

Folk do this to protect bricks on toploaders.